Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters SUCKY GUN-RAGS

I believe the Americans born between 1950 and 2000 will go down in history as the most spoiled, self-indulgent, demanding whiners in world history. (I was born in 1951, so I say this with some generational shame.)

This topic is a classic, akin to complaints over the .325 WSM, .338 Federal, and every other new development in outdoor craft that does not precisely meet the criteria of one of us self-appointed experts.

I am staggered at the amount of bellyaching that goes on because some aspect of the unprecedented abundance we enjoy doesn't exactly meet our personal expectations.

So here's my recommendation: If you find fault with the .338 Federal or some other cartridge introduction -- don't buy one.

If you find fault with Handloader -- don't buy it; don't read it.

If you find fault with Barnes TSX's -- shoot another bullet; they'll mostly all kill something.

If you find fault with...well, I'm guessing you get my point by now.

What this country, and frequently the shooting and hunting sports, need the most right now is a great big can of STFU.

Thank you for your time and consideration .

DN

Very well said Muledeer.

1234567,

When I first moved to the small town where I live 17 years ago, we started accounts at the local bank. One of the tellers told her husband that a hunting writer had moved into town, because he read all the magazines. When he found out who, he said, "He wouldn't live here!"

As if we wouldn't live in a small town with good hunting and fishing all around? Since then he has become my best friend in town, and has definitely found out what an average guy I am....

muledeer I am slightly older than you and agree with your assessment completely. I have bought Rifle and Handloader for decades � still subscribe � and see no reason to stop. The bitching does get unreal.

John, I must say while there's a place for forums like these it's more satisfying (to me) to read the printed word on, well, actual paper that doesn't talk back at you!

There will always be a place for magazines and books... 1's and 0's lack a certain tactile quality that the printed page offers. Too, finely crafted thinking put into words, while possible on an internet forum, is less likely... as we all know too well (grin).

If anything, I wonder whether the internet has fueled the growth of magazines like Wolfe offers in a Ludite sort of way?

Who knows...

There will always be a place in my heart and mind for magazines and books, (well said, Brad). I enjoy reading the printed word better than reading a computer screen. I currently receive all three Wolfe mags, plus RIFLESHOOTER, SHOOTING TIMES, GUNS AND AMMO, and OUTDOOR LIFE. Once in a while there might be an article I feel could have been done better, or even shouldn't have been done at all. But there's also a bunch of articles that I really enjoy. When any of these mags get to the point that I feel they are not worth it anymore; Then I'll just FAIL TO RENEW.... As was pointed out earlier; If you don't like it, don't buy it anymore.... 'Nuf said....

Besides, who runs high speed Internet into their "reading rooms" for that more contemplative moment. Not to mention the weirdness of trying to carry on an electronic conversation with an audience watching!

John, you write like my Mass Media professor wished we would have. And she was very good.

I'm viewing this thread from having been born in 1934, and I don't like what I see.
Good posting DN.

Don

Of course, what is also going on here is the repetition of a pattern.

Over six months or a year, new Campfire members sign on. Eventually they notice that there's a forum called "Ask the Gun Writers." They see this as a great opportunity to complain about gun magazines, not knowing that this pattern has already repeated itself several times over since the forum was created.

I suspect many of them think this is a sophisticated thing to do, since it implies that they (the complainers) know an awful lot about guns, more than any bunch of gun writers could ever know. And maybe they're right!

Two, the very nature of Internet chat rooms tends toward bitch sessions and brag-fests. This is apparently the nature of mostly anonymous mass "communication."

I am always very grateful when the majority of Campfire members come to the rescue when this pattern repeats itself yet again. One of the things that distinguishes this site from most others is the civil (and even jovial) exchange of ideas, without the acid often seen elsewhere. Personally, I joined up here to find out what my fellow rifle loonies were thinking, and it has been a great privilege to be accepted in the community.

I think we need to start a new thread called "Sucky Internet Posters", about internet posters that come onto a forum that is totally free, where they can communicate directly with some of the leading gunwriters in the country and then act in a rude manner towards those gunwriters.
Perhaps MTV would be more apt to hold their interest.

Royce

Like most magazines, there is a lot more chaff on these forums than wheat, one simply has to have the knowledge, time and experience to sort it out.

One reason some people don't like gun magazines is that there is only so much stuff they can write about. I've been reading them since 1960, and obviously they repeat a lot in that time. Newer readers would feel differently.

Usually I'm only interested in about half the stuff in any particular magazine. That's fine. No complaint. I just don't read the articles about the 3276th variation of .45 auto pistols.

My real complaint is that the articles are way too short. A previous thread explains why they have gotten shorter. Nevertheless, I wish some were longer.

I've been reading this and I feel compelled to respond (not that anyone cares), but it will make me feel better.

First, to the writers. I truly appreciate you guys posting here, and I can understand how stuff like this becomes tiresome to you, but its only because people care (for the most part, I think). The fact that people are complaining means they're reading, which is good for your bottom line. I do think its unfair that you are taking the heat, but apparently your bosses are above all this, they should be the ones responding here.

As to the "problem" of repetitiveness, I have to disagree with that. I will confine my comments to Wolfe publications. I can think of topics that haven't been covered, lots of them. I don't know how interesting they would be to everyone else, but there are other topics.

As far as previously covered material, the problem isn't recycling, its the fact that the same 10% or so of material keeps getting recycled. If you read through the old magazines, you'll see theres so much stuff that could use a fresh perspective. Why not recycle something that hasn't been written about for 2 or 5 or 15 years? Exposing the "newbies" to stuff outside the "mainstream" might keep them around longer than their current subscription and it might bring lost readers back.

thanks for your listening Tim

Maybe the next round of "Awful Gun Magazines" should get shifted to the "Hunter's Campfire" forum. Wherever else, it doesn't belong in "Ask the Gunwriters;" do we really expect the writers to say something like, "I don't want an editor from x or y magazine ever to consider buying an article from me in the future?" That's what agreeing with this topic and naming names amounts to for a writer - their mortgages and families.

I suspect in some cases over a glass of single malt we'd all learn something, but in public? The phrase "Don't s**t where you eat" comes to mind...

Quote from Brad:

"John, I must say while there's a place for forums like these it's more satisfying (to me) to read the printed word on, well, actual paper that doesn't talk back at you!"

I look at the forums as a place to have casual conversation with the writers, much as you would over a camp fire or at the rifle range.

I see the magazine articles as written and read at a 'distance,' meaning there is no personal interaction between reader and writer. Sometimes, when reading an article, I find myself wanting to ask something like, "But, what if...?, or "Where did you buy that? I have never seen one..." things like that.

It might be there, but I have never found it, but I have have never seen in a magazine how to get directly in touch with a writer by phone, mail, or even e-mail.

A short while ago, after I joined this forum, I wrote Mule Deer a PM, because I wanted to make a suggestion for an article. I had been wanting to contact him about this same article for about two years, but I didn't know how to do it.

I am just naturally nosy, and sometimes I would like to know more about various writers, such as where they live and their other hobbies and interests. I can understand not giving out their place of residence because of privacy, but I am still, well, nosy.

elkcreek:

You have shown your complete lack of elk hunting knowledge and skill by suggesting there is time, when shooting at an elk, to make wind, humidity and other calculations and then �click� it into your scope.

Here�s a little sometime for you to do � write an article on game shooting and post it here. I would love to critique your expertise.

By the way, I don�t like being called a fool.

John Haviland

You mean you can't?

I agree, Royce. I would hope that the PM's the writers receive are in better manner than are witnessed on the open forum....
The golden rule goes a long way.

I would venture to say that Mr. Haviland has probably eaten more elk than you have ever seen on the hoof.

So, why don't you dazzle us with your expertise on long shooting

the great wapiti by providing some articles,research, pictures, and/or other

proof to support your contentions before you start calling a man of known, proven, hunting,

shooting and writing ability a fool.

bonehead comments for sure!