Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting So You Want To Hunt Out West

When I was younger and hunted mostly Nevada, Idaho, Utah and Wyoming it was almost always on open BLM or ranch land which included leased BLM land. Unless you were hunting sheep or goats an outfitter was generally not necessary and certainly unaffordable. Today the rules have changed to the disadvantage of the average working man. The hunting grounds in most of the best areas are locked up by big outfitters who lease big parcels from ranchers who can always use the cash to defray taxes. Often these parcels surround public BLM land making it impossible to get in and even if you do these outfits charge big crossing fees. Of course the BLM always has a right-of-way in but the roads or tracks into this land have government locks on the gates.

The bottom line is that outfitter companies really control access to most of the best hunting. And my real bitch is they are keeping tax paying hunters from their land so that in essence the outfitters get a lease but by controlling access they get the BLM land for free. Those ranchers that don’t lease out their land are often wealthy out of staters or Hollywood types that are famous for posting the land and are frequently politically and vocally ‘ anti hunting ‘ . The hard core back pack hunters or those who are capable of lots of high climbing in remote areas can still find success but honestly this is very tough and doesn’t represent much of the hunting public.

It’s not getting any better so unless you have real deep pockets to pay the gate keepers you’re screwed. The big West is becoming like Europe where public hunting access is almost non-existent except to private hunt clubs or the entitled wealthy. Our state and federal government could care less. The states see the revenue and the feds only get involved in species protection and environmental issues so the rights or needs of hunters goes unaddressed and are thought of as inconsequential minority special interest. With gun control fights, PETA, various animal rights groups and the diminishing number of hunters every year the horizon is depressing

Rick

I have not experienced what you describe.

Idaho is 60% public land. Very little of it is locked up. There are a few landlocked spots but not many. There's plenty of room to hunt. A bigger problem is lead cows. She'll take the herd to a safe spot and she knows by long experience that those safe places are often on private land. Those old smart cows are probably the biggest hinderance to getting your elk.

There's similar parallels here in Colorado. The bigger problem here is the politics of tourism, and the intentional inflation of bureaucratic administration of the state game management agency. A maze of complicated hurdles that obligate applicants to commit more time to the process than what average people have available for recreation. Yes people passionately committed to hunting can still clear all the obstacles and find game on public land. But at what cost to their other obligations? Before I took my hiatus, what I saw up in elk country was a steady increase of people with expensive equipment and lots of leisure time.

I don't begrudge the financial burden of managing valuable state resources. They're worth every penny. But IMO the collection of what's needed to foot the bill shouldn't be a quagmire of administrative quicksand hidden in a mouse maze. Simplicity and transparency would be better for everyone.

I grew up in CO and have never paid to access public land. The only private land I have hunted there is a ranch an old family friend owns for whiretail does in his hay meadow. I have taken elk, mule deer, whitetails, black bear, pronghorn, bighorn sheep and mountain goat off public land.

If the OP is having trouble getting on public land then he isnt doing enough research.

Well let me put it this way. First I’m now too old and crippled up to hunt elk or high ground Muleys so everything I say is from recall and people I know who still hunt in mostly Western Wyoming and Colorado. So my comments are just my opinion and everybody has one but either way food for thought. Prime elk hunting areas are getting harder to access and the money being made to control many of these areas is what drives this situation. If you live where you hunt then you know how to work around such restrictions but for the guy who just drove or flew in to a state to hunt elk has a lot going against him. Elk move, locals know where and private or leased land creates a big checkerboard where roads don’t always get you there or close. This is a big problem for those with a few weeks to hunt, some topos and limited gear and no horses. This man is pretty much fair game for outfitters if he can pay his way. Last I heard there are around 900 outfitters in Colorado alone and believe it or not over 300 in the Cody, WY region so just imagine how many are around the ‘ Thoroughfare ‘ . There may be 60% open public land in Idaho but most of the elk herds are on the remainder. Anyway just my opinion and I guess you could call it sour grapes.

Years ago I hunted moose way North in New Hampshire. The largest land owners in NH and Maine are the paper companies. For years they let hunters in by leaving the gates open. In the area we wanted to hunt it was forty miles in and we had been scouting it for a month. First day of the season Champion Paper locked the gates. They told Fish and Game that hunters could still walk in but nobody could walk that distance plus no place to leave my truck. They said leaving the gates open could allow timber theft ( yea right ), that the logging roads were in poor shape and dangerous but there were several guides and others who had the keys. So I lost two months of scouting and had to seriously regroup to hunt at the last moment.

Rick

What would fix it for you? I don't think it needs fixing, but in your mind, what would fix this?

That's simply not the case. Perhaps in certain areas, but that's always been the case due to low amounts of public land.

Or perhaps doing any research.

Yes, BLM always has a right-of-way, but in the 10's of thousands of acres of our ranch property in the high desert, big empty of Oregon you won't find a single government lock on any gate.

Locks are reserved for power generation dams...

I am 60 years old, have had 17 broken bones, 4 torn muscles, have 2 screws and a pin in my right ankle, and have been shot twice. I still hunt solo out of a back pack. If you want it bad enough you can do it.

Well Mac you sound tougher than a hard boiled owl. But no sense getting into a pissing contest on a person’s physical health. I’m 77 and right now a victim of Lyme Disease that I must have contacted some thirty years ago while living in NH but the doctors never caught it. So if your legs and joints don’t work when a bout flares up I’m pretty much immobilized. Right now these symptoms flare up four to six times a year and I can’t schedule it.

Puddle: BTW the BLM does lock many areas in Western Colorado and other states. If you have leased BLM ranch grazing land then gates would be up to the rancher. I had two Uncles with big spreads in Nevada with thousands of grazing acres leased by the BLM not a gate or fence on most of it. My buddies who live in CO and who run fire crews say the locked areas are to keep vehicles and four wheelers out,

BKinSD: I don’t have a solution — talk is cheap. But I’ve sat around with quite a few local and out of state hunters and even my late Brother who worked 15 years as a guide and wrangler for several outfitters in Wyoming and Salmon, ID and listened to complaints. I hear the complaints but every time I think I know something or have something figured out it comes down to legal rights of private or business land use. Other than federal environmental governance it seems hunting wildlife is a state by state matter with money greasing the wheels. But again when I read there are 900 outfitters in Colorado and 300 just in the Cody, Wyoming area then just maybe things are out of balance.especially for the locals. Fish and Game and their biologists are only going to allow so many licenses based on their estimated herd count. Resident tags and hunters certainly don’t spend the money that outfitted out of state hunters do. I know in Colorado and I think Wyoming and Montana the pressure is to fill those tags as profitably as possible. There are only so many tags so I have to wonder what the numbers look like for over the counter resident vs outfitted non-resident tags then success rate bulls and cows in the better units. Not trying to start something just spitballing and food for thought and conversation.

Rick

Theirs is no caveat to BLM or FS land that a rancher leases for grazing. If it’s accessible, it’s open to the public.

Correct. In the case of the BLM, it's against terms and conditions of the grazing permit to prevent/inhibit another lawful use of that land. IMO/E locking folks out due to grazing permit use happens more in theory than in actuality.

But, I have found that many of those ranchers leasing grazing call it "THEIR BLM" and often
there are some less than friendly interactions with would be legal hunters trying to access it.
Just my experience. But I am sure there are many other experiences by others.

I feel you age pain woodpecker; however, I disagree with your comments. I've been hunting Colorado since 1996 and outfitters do not control the land. If it's public land, it's public land, you can hunt the exact same area the outfitter's clients do, and I do. All an outfitter does is get you to and from a remote camp, and many are not that remote, just that the hunters are not exactly in shape enough (trying to be kind here) to walk three miles to a tent already set up for them. The other thing they have is more time in the woods than most of us are willing or can afford to dedicate to elk season.

Leased cattle rights do not limit hunting. Again it's public land. Locking gates or posting the land as private is illegal. And I'm all for less cars, trucks, and atv's on the backwoods roads. In fact, I wish CO would ban or limit the use of ATV's -their use has become beyond excessive.

My gripe is that western hunting has become mainstream thanks to YouTube, Onxmaps, Google Earth, etc. making it significantly easier to find places to hunt and share hunting tactics. It's a crowded and popular activity. It's impossible to go where no one else goes. Deep-woods elk sanctuary's simply do not exist anymore. Elk have become extremely weary and educated to our tactics and at the first sign of hunting pressure, they escape to private land.

Honestly, seems like that's exactly what you're trying to do. I find that most anyplace game is concentrated, it's because access to it is restricted somehow. It's also a fact that the manner in which society rations scarce goods, whether that is big game licenses or access to game in concentrated areas, is through putting a value on it and making people pay that value.

I've also found over the years that most things that are free are free because they aren't worth anything. And oftentimes, free things that do have value are overrun with people who have little capability to appreciate the value if there is any. Thankfully, there's still opportunity out there, plenty of it free for the asking and that's a good thing. Wishing that it was better has led many people to join DU, PF, RMEF and similar groups. You might find yourself in such a situation. Anyway, sorry to hear about your Lyme's and I hope you have a great fall season!

This is pretty much my experience in CO.

A year or two ago there was an outfitter camp set up in the middle of the area we hunt. We just went along the same as we always do and hunted the same places. After day or two I figured out that the clients and the outfitters were out of shape and didn’t get more than 100 yards from the wheeler, no danger in them crimping my style. I’d wave as I passed them heading in. Waved as I passed on the way back out with elk quarters strapped to my pack.

I also have ran into several guys in the last few years who were glued to their OnX app. Visiting with them they never wanted to hear, “the big bowl up over that ridge has a pocket of timber that I’ve seen elk in over the years”, they all wanted me to zoom in on their screen and drop a pin. Sorry but no, not like I had one tied to a tree in there anyway.

There are many areas in CO that anywhere you stop on the road it’s NF on both sides. Easy access by finding a place to park and lacing up your boots to go check it out. That’s how my family has done it since the 1950’s. We don’t always kill an elk or deer but the access and opportunity to try is there. You might even find a honey hole that can be your secret spot.

An elk or good mulie ain't gonna hop into your backpack. When you hit public or blm, get ready to work your azz off for a shot, then work harder taking care of your meat. Only so much research can be done online. Get in your truck, drive, grab a day pack and some binos and do summer scouting. Heck, you might even catch a fish while your at it. Best part of hunting high country is the experience and the views. If you eat a tag, which you will most of the time, harvest data clearly explains that, big deal, your carrying a rifle in the mountains and have an opportunity at taking game. And I'm with TheKid on this one. Drop a pin? Yeah right. Get your butt up there and hunt. It's not easy. But sometimes hard, unsuccessful hunts are some of the best. The elk or mule deer is an added bonus.

I'd like to know where your numbers come from on outfitters? 300 around Cody sounds a little high to me.

Plenty of good elk hunting country open and available to hunt. Just drove through miles and miles of it yesterday scouting. Easy to just go to the store and buy a license to hunt it too as a resident.