Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting So You Want To Hunt Out West

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wytex that is a great reference link to the federal law dealing with this problem This is something that non-resident hunters should read. Though it’s a bit lengthy and typical political legalize wording it’s no worse than a rental car agreement. But the Marquette Law Review is pretty good at condensing this legal argument so I think most should be able to read the issues plainly. I can actually see both sides of the “ Hunter v Hunter “ argument and the why some states desire to discriminate against non-resident hunters by restricting tag numbers, playing with seasons and enforcing very high tag fees. At the same time the case is made that the good elk hunting states could be overrun by out of staters if there are no controls. Not sure how valid that point is or the possible numbers, if there are such, but I guess it could be a disastrous scenario if their argument is sound.

One element throughout this review that bothers me most is that many states protect the outfitter business above any non-resident hunter. Many make no distinction between out of state outfitters and locals as it applies to the confusing laws regarding interstate commerce. The out of state hunter is treated as a non tax payer and charged accordingly but outfitters seem be treated differently. It just appears that the outfitters really have the game sewed up just like so much of the land locked BLM land they have access to. My attitude is that if they cannot make their business work without stacking the deck then something is very wrong. I believe they would still have plenty of business even if open access and lower tag fees existed. There will still be lots of hunters who can afford to hunt with outfitters as most are business or work restricted for time. The typical non-resident hunter can’t scout and spend weeks to get back country to stage a good elk hunt. They typically don’t have horses or full camp outfits unless they are the rare backpacker hard core hunters. Not to mention the outfitters know where the elk are moving and how to get to them

Rick

I’ve hunted NW Colorado for a little over 20 years in high pressure zones with too many hunters getting worse every year. In that time I’ve killed 20 elk mostly cows but some decent bulls mixed in all on public land.

The amount of landlocked BLM where we hunt is criminal. The BLM should Sell or trade public land or buy access to it in every case with parcels over 1,000 acres. It is a ridiculous waste & giveaway program for wealthy ranchers.

Like many I’ve thought of buying a small place to gain access but couldn’t swing it. I agree that the current situation sucks but there are still millions of reachable public acres for someone willing to hike & scout a little to fill their tags.

I’m in my 60’s with normal wear & tear & still enjoy covering some ground - being the oldest fattest guy on top of the hill is still on top of the hill. If I make it to 77 I’ll be content to hunt within sight of the truck/ranger & let younger guys push them to me.

I'll be the bad guy here, no one has looked at this from the land owners side, you want access to public lands that hold Deer and Elk or other critters. you all hate locked gates and you and your buddies should be able to drive you SXS or 4 wheeler anywhere there's a road,
Your 10 day out of state trip is more important than the owners right to protect his land and live stock, 365 day's a year, how much time have you spent fixing fence, roads, picking up trash?? NONE, the money you spend on your well researched Elk hunt mostly goes to the State, the locals benefit from what you buy in town, that does not help the rancher.

Not all land owners are wealthy in many cases they are land poor, what money they get from guiding or trespass fees, will help but won't pay the upkeep and taxes on the land. most of you have no idea what it takes to be a large land owner, no one is paying the owner to own it but you want use of the land when your there, wide open and free. Flame Away Rio7

Life is full of choices. The area we used to hunt has been inundated with non resident hunters. California, Washington, Utah, Texas, etc. I moved on and hunt elsewhere. My choice. The incessant whining from non residents gets old. Don't come. Hunt elsewhere.

Exactly. Out here in Oklahoma, it's a free for all. Won't see a sole until opening day of rifle, then there is an orange hat on every corner. Drive in from wherever for Thanksgiving to hunt grandpappy's farm. Bet 99 percent of them don't have a dang thing to do with the land until deer season. Make some land payments and pay some interest. It's the price you pay to have your own ground to hunt. I'm quickly learning in my search for public ground in southeast wyoming for an elk the chances of seeing an animal on one of those tracts is slim to none. I wouldn't mind paying a trespass fee to kill an elk, even a cow. World we live in guys, ain't nothin free. As far as landlocked blm, heck I wouldn't be willing to sell or trade land so Joe blow can have his hunting access. And who can blame the ranchers for taking a huge check to tie up with an outfitter or outfit themselves? Most of them make a hard living, and the way I see it, they are utilizing their available resources. There are places to hunt, just do research and get in your truck. You have a year between hunts and there is alot of available information.

Hunting the west has never been easier for the diy hunter. All it takes is a little effort.

I think the concept of land swaps is more difficult than people think. For starters you have to have multiple parties interested in a swap. Do you really think landowners with prime hunting ground are going to swap that out? Not a chance unless the swap creates a larger buffer against public hunters.

No one has mentioned the Slob Hunters, A name that given to most out of state hunters even though it is earned by only a few.

Most hunters are considerate but do not realize that closed or locked gates have a purpose. Livestock there so hunt another pasture, high fire danger

Due to tall grass. Hunters driving off road instead of walking to a hunting spot Pastures littered with trash that could be taken to a trash bin.

This a farmer or ranchers home. Treat it with respect. The same that you would expect from visitor's to your home.

There are jerks on both sides of the issue. Ask permission, respect your host wild game eats his grass and he doesn't get paid for being a nice guy.

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Lots of space here in Oregon. The issue now is drawing tags. Might take 2 or 3 years, and maybe 20+ for a couple premium units.

Funny, when I think "slob hunters" I far and away think of in state hunters, not out of state hunters...

I would rather hunt around " Slobs" than Libtards

Agree and same here.

Yes there is that to. Instate slobs are easer to hold accountable.

A hunter on a ranch in eastern MT failed to fully bone out his kill. He left all of the meat along the outer back.

He received a letter from the owner. Do not come back.

Most libtards are Slob's, there are a lot of slob hunters but very few libtards that hunt. Rio7

My Dad called it "filling in the corners of ranching".

There was this fellow who always came out to the ranch, a business owner from the big city. He would show up in a new pickup truck (he favored Dodge) and packing a Weatherby loud-n-boomer. And for reasons I could never understand would ask for me to "guide" him. Of course to "guide" one assumes someone will actually follow the guides directions.

More than once I had to finish off the poor creature he'd managed to whack, he with his loud-n-boomer, me with either a .30-30 or M1 Garand - whatever I was packing that day.

Running a small to medium sized cattle ranch isn’t for the weak and it’s seems if you’re lucky the only real good money you’ll ever see is the day you sell it the Hunt Bros., Kuenke or one of the multitude of land buyers or developers. My two late Uncles had good size 30k acre ranches in Nevada most was BLM grazing leased. The beef business just got worse and worse between the feedlots and the big meat packing outfits there wasn’t much in a dollar for the poor rancher. Then when the kids got out of college they weren’t interested in that much physical work so what to do ? Seems like the cattle ranchers that could make were the Basques who usually had really big families and they stuck with it. Your comments are right on RIO7 and Coyote10 you’re just telling it like it is unfortunately.

As for Idaho I lived there a number of years and honestly can’t believe what’s happening to parts of it. My Wife just returned from McCall and Idaho Falls and brought home a stack of real estate brochures. I just about puked. The entire content of three of them listed nothing but cut up ranch properties being sold by the Knipe Land Co. Everything was listed from 250 to 600 or more acres running from 1.3 to about 50 million dollars. Looks like the developers are doing very well cutting up the pie. Back to Wyoming where the historic and incredible land that was the Hoodoo Ranch abutting Yellowstone and private land is locked up by Hunt Consolidated out of Texas. Hell they are making enough off of their gas wells so you’d think they’d be happy but no. The ranch is 100% lease by the big dude ranch company 7D and try to get in and they will prosecute. The biggest is the Q-Creek Ranch at a paltry 560 thousand acres ( largest in WY ) owned by Kroenke along with more giant ranch property in AZ, Montana, and British Columbia or around 2 million acres. In Wyoming he runs his own outfitting service. I found it impossible to find out how much of his land is BLM. Believe me this is just the tip of the iceberg. These people don’t buy junk land and many still run some stock but I’m sure this has more to do with their tax exposure.

We as hunters are like commercial fisherman, you can’t put ten in a room and expect consensus. Right now the Biden Administration just cut funding for Hunter Education as it deals with 6 firearms. Not much resistance nor many who even knew about it. It just sailed through. The land conservation groups are really the only ones who are funded and fighting to preserve public recreation access. They aren’t always a hunters best friend but they generally don’t exclude us. We certainly aren’t getting any help from the NRA and our dollars, or the multi billion dollar hunting and fishing equipment industry. Just maybe, “ we found the enemy and it’s us “. So as always it’s money and big business that greases the wheels in the capitols, both state and federal. So with some effort maybe the feds and states will listen to the music from their own purse strings. Just look at the number of LGBT political action groups out there and the money and political horsepower they’ve generated — really the LGBT you gotta be kidding

Rick

Plenty of Libs on THIS site, at least one posted on this thread

I wanted to hunt the west until I tried to get tags. Then I decided to only buy leftover tags. Then I decided to not even bother.

Yep, anyone planning to hunt elk in the west should reconsider. I hear Kentucky is the new hotspot.

Anyone that pays an outfitter is making the problem worse. The only people that hate outfitters have actually met them.