Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting So You Want To Hunt Out West

You'll know if it's navigable or not. Trust me. If you've ever waded a stream to fish you know how treacherous that sucker can be. River banks always change, that's why there are riparian rights. Gain and lose land daily. I'd hate to pack one out on foot along the bank of a (river) much less paddle back up the dang thing.

T-Inman was mentioning that even the BLM or Forestry Service may not have access across private land. I respectfully disagree. Please understand I’m no lawyer but I got sued by one once. Anyway the BLM and FS must have access in order to manage fire control and brush removal on some parcels. They also need access to control drainage problems, wildlife protection and other environmental issues. Today much of this is enforced and managed by the EPA who pretty much has a hand in almost all land use matters. But the U.S. Constitution emphatically outlines these issues in the Public Trust writings that decree protection of the U.S. waterways, and natural resources. This essentially insures access and prohibits anybody who tries to profit from these lands without expressed federal leases or permission. It also specifies general access for recreational purposes by the public.

Right of Ways are actually easements and there are two legal types. A Gross Right of Way and Appurtenant. A Gross ROW is the type that municipalities or utility companies have for road or power line maintenance or construction. But a Gross ROW allows the holder to sell the land but not legal ownership. On the other hand Appurtenant ROW is the type that allows the holder to pass to his property that is landlocked, a legal right. I’m guessing the BLM and FS have such which is also known as a easement by necessity. The more you read on this the deeper it gets so my interpretation may be a little off but I think this is pretty close. The bottom line is that a Appurtenants ROW always stays with the land even if owners change while the Gross ROW easement is tied to a person or company who owns it and can be revocable because they can sell it . Clear as mud — no ?

Rick

Rick (woodpecker), there are some exceptions for fire operations, erosional control (in limited situations) and of course law enforcement. Sometimes water right easements also come into effect. You are correct.

I was talking in regards to general access for normal day to day management of the public land.

There are also a LOT of conflicting laws, regulations and policies. A LOT. Both federal and state. It gets messy fast and IME normally .gov employees take the side of caution until their solicitors or managers can read enough case law to make a decision regarding a particular situation.

I've never hunted further west than Oklahoma. I dreamt in my youth of western big game hunts but could not afford it back then. Now that I can, and I'm much older, and after reading about having to draw big game tags, the odds, the costs, etc, hunting my home state seems better and better all the time. I've decided I'm okay with never hunting sheep or trophy elk in the west. My state has lots of public land, a huge amount of deer, and lots of bear and turkeys, unlimited deer bag limits in some counties, low costs, and every place is accessible in under a day's drive. Now we've got elk in the western part of the state, and for the last couple of years I've entered the elk hunt drawing here. It ain't paradise except to a guy who is getting older and likes being able to throw a gun into the back seat and head out at the spur of the moment to a place he knows like the back of his hand, spending the day, and getting back home to a good supper.

It has never been easier to hunt out west, yet people still complain.

I can't quite agree with that. Yes, technology makes it easier to find places to hunt. Tags IME are harder to come by than 15yrs ago, which I thinks offsets the technology thing. Hunting out west is not very hard/complicated, but it's not the easiest I've ever experienced due to tag availability.

Well that's because certain people make videos detailing how to apply and draw tags in every state. Instead of people having to take the initiative to learn, they are spoon fed the info....all for $$$. Wildlife pimp'in ain't easy tho.....

It's still never been easier. Yes primo tags are hard to come by thanks to the wildlife pimps, but you could get a cow elk tag every year if you just wanted to hunt.

“ wildlife Pimps “ not sure exactly what that means but I think I understand. A quick true story. I only once hunted with an outfitter in the Yellowstone ‘ Thorofare ‘ about fifteen years ago. A good famous pistol smith friend who gets to tag along with his Safari Club buddies talked me into this hunt knowing all I wanted was meat and they had a bucket full of cow tags. So I signed on with Double Diamond Outfitters out of Cody. For the big spenders they had a full bar and actual restaurant, quite a fancy layout. Got my cow with two days left, came in and out front of the club house, as I called it, were six big good scoring racks, four young teenage girls couple of which couldn’t have been more tha fourteen or younger posing for the camera in front of these beautiful racks. Three had Weatherby 340’s the other a custom something. They were with their dads all sporting nice safari style hunting jackets with Safari Club patches. On the plane home I was still wondering who shot those nice bulls especially with 340 Wetherby’s ?
I heard those girls talking and saying it was their first hunt and how fun it was to ride horses ?

Rick

Any of those people at the camp in WY go by the name of Epstein or Clinton by chance?

Nothing wrong with that kind of hunt…as long as it is detailed and portrayed as such.

The world is full of brand new and inexperienced hunters who have killed way bigger and more impressive critters than I. They never did a bit of scouting and had their hand held the whole time. I know plenty of them. Good for them and it may or may not motivate a common hunter to maybe look into that kind of hunt themselves. Those situations have at times motivated me to put more and more work into my DIY hunts.

I guess it all comes down to being proud of doing things your way, even if that means smaller physical trophies.

Doubt it

All I know is my mules bum out when I start rifle hunting versus bow hunting!

They usually got to go to work.

Then please enlighten us since you are using this crypto terminology. Tell me do you think the rest of the readers are able to unlock your language secrets ? If it’s that hard to fathom then that is the least you can do if you want readers to even attempt to follow your dribble

Ok I will hold your hand in this thread, just like "big pimpin Newberg" does for applications. He dumbs it down for those either too lazy or stupid to read and understand regs and draw reports. There are more examples, you can go look for them..

Oh wait, I forgot, he doesn't make a cent pimping....good guy he is...just out of the kindness of his heart.

Excellent response.

I was one of the .340 toting guys in my younger years but there were no young girls. Only tired middle aged guys with long stares after packing out a few elk for the group on their backs. Attitudes were 100% though. No negativity & with that group we killed lots of stuff in places that the odds were not in our favor. I will say that the .340 with a 210 partition loaded like Hagel recommended in the day was a wicked flat killer. I’ll always remember that.

But did your dad spend ten to fifteen thousand dollars with an outfitter who placed you in front of trophy bulls on leased land to ensure his wallet resuted in sucess for his young daughter ? That my friend is not hunting it’s nothing more than high dollar entertainment. It’s taking prime game animals for the wealthiest clients regardless of experience or even the most basic understanding of the hunt or the value of the prey and its behavior. But they enjoyed the horseback riding. Just maybe I’m missing something huh ?

Do you always talk in riddles ? Maybe that is the problem

15k for an elk hunt never happened in my world - let alone my father paying for it. What he would have told me if I’d asked is stuff for a different thread. I’m Scandinavian. We don’t spend money we don’t have to.

Now I completely understand why you're complaining about access.

Can you blame a rancher for getting an extra 80 or 100k to outfit some rich dudes? That's an asset they have and they're right to do as they please with their land. I'm not in the outfitter crowd and would actually and do take game on my own diy, but hard to blame a guy for utilizing his resources. Hunting access is there. Just don't be surprised to see the hunting public. Tags are getting to be a bi#$h to obtain and point creep is real. But you have to play the system and roll with it.