Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The big 40+ calibers. What's your favorite?

ParkWest Arms:

https://parkwestarms.com/

Where is the price list ?
If you gotta ask you don't want to know ?

I worked in South Dakota in the early part of this century.
I visited Dakota and Jamison Brass in Sturgis several times.
Both gone now.
At least Dakota lives on in ParkWest Arms. That is good, I guess.

I ended up with only one Dakota Arms rifle. The Long Bow M76 in .338 Lapua Magnum, happy with that.
I would have bought at least one other Dakota Arms rifle, except they would not sell an M76 without a walnut stock.
You would have to buy walnut and have them fix up an MPI separately.
I already had a walnut .450 Dakota Magnum 98 from Cabela's, strangely enough.
So I just bought brass and reloading dies (.450 Dakota, .416 Dakota, .423 Dakota) and made a general pest of myself in Sturgis.

Oh, yeah, I got a Dakota M76 African action from Brownells and went my own way with that ...
yep, got stuck with an MPI for that,
bedded and reinforced with an oak block in the foam-filled-open butt, by Bubba himself.
Gunsmith put a recoil pad on it for me.



Yes indeed it is funny that the .416 Dakota was not a best seller.
Homemade one with 24" Douglas barrel, 1:12" twist, No. 5 Sporter, HS Precision stock,
surprisingly light at 8 lbs. 7 oz:



Here is my homemade M76 African with MPI stock, McGowen 23" barrel, chambered for another wildcat
which I claim all blame for, the 404 RIP, aka the .423/.416 Rigby Improved Plus:



The improvement to the .416 Rigby case was only by changing the funky 45* shoulder to a 20* shoulder,
just like on the original .416 Ruger, on a Ruger Number built for Bill Ruger's birthday in 1991,
brass not made by Jim Bell until 1997. Bill Ruger was born in 1916.
Hence the odd headstamp below:



I use the .423 Dakota dies as a neck sizer for the 404 RIP.
No need for a .423 Dakota nor 404 Dakota here.
Also have a 404 Jeffery made on an M70 RUM stainless action with Brown Precision stock.

By golly my Magnum-actioned 404 RIP weighs exactly 9.5 pounds too, bare and unloaded, with Talley peep.
It and the .416 Dakota are the only bolt action repeaters that I use Talley bases with,
kind of got stuck with them before I learned better.
Yes they are stuck on with J-B Weld to the actions.

The 404 Jeffery M70 weighs 8.5 pounds, bare and unloaded, peep-sighted, 24" barrel.
The Brown Precision stock required no oak block in the butt.

The oak-butted 404 RIP does not do enough more than the 404 Jeffery to justify its existence.
It is also butt heavy whereas the 404 Jeffery has delightful balance with its No. 4 Sporter McGowen barrel.
The 404 Jeffery makes a great African Sheep Rifle.

Here is the only regret I have in rifle chambering:



I had the barrel screwed off of a CZ 550 Magnum 404 Jeffery factory rifle,
stock had already been replaced by CZ USA after the fancy walnut snapped off at the wrist.
The barrel was replaced by a .410-caliber Douglas No. 4 sporter, stainless, 1:14" twist, 6-groove, 26" long.
A Wisner pocket floor plate, Lapour 3-pos. safety, and Timney trigger were installed.
Then the crime was the chambering.
It was chambered for the .410/404 Jeffery Rimless Nitro Express.
Brass is formed by sizing the Norma 404 brass in 450/400 NE 3" dies.



B is the .416 Dakota,
A is the .410/404 JRNE, with a shoulder weaker than that of the 404 Jeffery.

I made the mistake of firing one of the rimless cases in a 450/400 Ruger No.1
to see if the shoulder was adequate to head space.
It was not. A case head separation with new Norma brass occurred.
No harm to Ruger No. 1.
No misfires when rimless rim is held in CZ 550 Magnum claw extractor.
I guess it headspaces on the extractor.

I still have the 404 Jeffery barrel to screw back onto the rifle.
The true magnum rifle as picture above weighs 8 lbs and 15 ounces.
Rebore the .410 to something bigger, or get the .416 Dakota shoulder reamed into it ...

.416 Taylor

This 26"-barreled Ruger M77 MkII weighs 8 lbs. 2 oz.
Shilen No. 5 Sporter, 26" long, 1:14" twist , tupperware stock,
easily +2400 fps with 400-grainers from the 26" barrel:

.416 Weatherby Magnum Mk V "DGR" weighs 8 lbs. 14 oz. when minus the scope, rings, rail and muzzle brake
and no ammo onboard:





Muzzle brake is mandatory if Talley ring use is unwisely attempted:

I am lost on what the 458 Win does better than the 416 Rem?

IMHO, EdM's.416 Remington Magnum rifle would be a lot more interesting if it was a .458 Winchester Magnum
that shoots 404-gr Shock Hammers of about 0.419 G1 BC at faster MV than a .416/400-grainer can do
from a .416 RemMag at 65,000 psi SAAMI MAP.

Hence the .458 WM+ housed in the M70 Long Action would have a flatter trajectory and greater impact at all ranges.
It could certainly beat the .416 RemMag at lesser pressure, whatever MV is desired.
The standard SAAMI .458 WinMag of 3.340" COL pushes 400-grainers to +2400 fps MV at 60,000 psi MAP.
Assume 24" barrels all around.

Jacketed and monometal bullet weights from 250 grains to 600 grains: .458 Win
Cast bullet versatility outstanding, even paper-patched and BP, with even greater weight range of bullets: .458 Win
Subsonic to near Mach 3: .458 Win
Greater powder variety versatility: .458 Win

You can even make better birdshot/snake loads with the .458 WinMag than with a .416 RemMag.
I will concede the .458 Lott might make a better shotgun.


.416/400-gr SD = 0.330
.458/500-gr SD = 0.341

.416 RemMag: 400-gr at 2400 fps and 65,000 psi

.458 WinMag: 500-gr at 2200 fps at 60,000 psi:

The .458 WinMag will out penetrate the .416 RemMag on game animals if a proper FN monometal solid is used.
When you get to 2200 fps little is gained on penetration by going faster,
other than shock and awe,
more to the shooter than the shootee.

Thus the .458 WinMag is better at long range with 404-gr Shock Hammer.
It is better on elephant at close range with a 500-gr FN.

Those are routinely attained MV's with 24" barrels.
Winchester is loading the 500-gr Nosler Partition and Solid at 2,240 fps.
Hornady used to offer 500-grainers at 2260 fps, soft and solid, when their bullets could not handle it.
Lately they have backed off to 2140 fps with better bullets.

This reminds us of a possible explanation for why Winchester reduced the MV of .458 WM factory loads
from 2125 fps with their 500 & 510-grainers (standard from 25" barrel since 1956),
to only 2050 fps in 26"-barreled double rifles.
They were catering to the .458 WinMag double rifle craze that sprung up when the rimmed DR ammo got scarce.
It was not because of any problems with the .458 WinMag.
It was because of the abuses of the ammo by shooters of double rifles,
lower pressures for the delicate things.
Factory goofs and bad storage of aged ammo can explain any anecdotes of the
.458 WinMag bullets dropping to the ground right out of the barrel in deepest Africa

The .458 Winchester Magnum is without peer. It is the King of +.40-bore hunting rifles.
Everybody ought to have at least one of them as a show of good judgement.
Re-barrel or re-bore your .416 RemMag to .SAAMI .458 WinMag, and you will have two rifles in one.
A SAAMI .458 WM and a .458 WM+.

My 350 gr TSX handload was not lacking at 130 yards on buffalo or 250 yards on kudu. How far have you hunted your 458 so loaded?

Gunner500, used the 404 gr. Shock Hammer loaded to 2500+ FPS to take a Warthog at 200 yards.

Easy shot with the 416 Rem and the 350 gr TX. Maybe I am missing something? I'm still not seeing the advantage from those actually killing game. A 358 Win 200 gr TSX worked on a big wart hog at 240 yards in 2015.

EdM,
Lately I have been killing deer at only out to 200 yards.
I am planning all my future hunting with the .458 WM to 300 yards, dead certain.
I don't want to leave it all to the kids.

I was taking game at 342 yards (Laser) with a Ruger No. 1 .416 Rigby and the old 350-gr Barnes-X during the late 1990s.
I killed caribou at 350 yards with the .340 Wby in the 1980s.
One time, out at 350 yards I had to shoot twice, so that probably ought to be my limit
with a non-tacticool-tool sporting rifle.
One shot meat, two shot maybe, 3 shot heap big crap.

I killed both moose and marmot at 100 yards with the .458 WinMag but then,
in the 1980s I succumbed to propaganda
and sought way too many rifles, invented over two dozen wildcats of my own.
Established a new caliber of my own, .395, and 5 wildcats for that, barrels by Harry McGowen, custom bullets galore.

A couple of member here have used the 404-gr Shock Hammer to do one-shot kills on cape buffalo
with their .458 WinMags.
Gunner500 was one of them and used the same load extensively on plains game beyond 200 yards.
He left his ammo behind with a PH and one 404-gr Shock Hammer dropped a big bull giraffe.
Amazing bullet for an amazing rifle.
All one-shot kills by their expertise.
I am proud to claim being the instigator of that bullet.
I got Hammer Bullets to put their design to a 400-ish grain bullet of .458-caliber,
meant for all-purpose soft-point use, near and far.
The 404-grain Shock Hammer is what we got.
+2500 fps at COL of less than 3.4" is easy in a standard .458 WinMag.

If young whippersnapper EdM keeps being a pest, he is going on ignore.

Ron,Thanks for sharing the interesting photos of the rifles & the associated rounds. As a left-handed shooter I've always been very fond of companies who cater to my particular minority...except for Weatherby. And there's no good technical reason for that slight that I can justify. I think it's totally aesthetic. For whatever reason (e.g. the Monte Carlo stocks, the longer barrels, the brand-specific calibers that are mostly magnums, the big recoil pads, my friends didn't shoot them, etc.) there was always something about that brand which didn't appeal to me. Which is a shame because for this particular discussion, some of their offerings might have been a good recommendation.

At auction I've seen left-handed 416 Rem Mag ($1560 & $1920), 460 Weatheby Magnum ($2040 & $2280), 458 Lott ($1800), 416 Weatherby Magnum ($1080), etc. The only thing I haven't seen is anything very desirable. A few have been okay if I squinted from a distance but for reasons of personal taste, they are just not doing it for me. Hence the no mention in my original question.

Having said that, your Weatherby is not too bad. Maybe the older LH models that are now showing up at auction were just uglier.

Comical at best. Do you really think I GAF about your useless views? You are a silly pphhuuccckk>

Sir Ron.

As usual, another provocative idea. After taking a small step in the direction of a 458 WM+ by rebarreling a Ruger Hawkeye 404-375 Ruger to 458 WM, I’ve been thinking about a good way to put together a true 458 WM+. The passage above may be the answer.

There’s a Win M-70 Classic chambered in 416 Rem Mag sitting unused in the safe. A ‘nice rifle’, but given my penchant for 404s - 4 versions sitting in the safe now - in the heavy medium class and my tepid-at-best opinion of the 416 Rem Mag, it doesn’t get any use. Been thinking about rebarrelling it with a spare 416 Rigby Ruger No. 1 barrel sitting on the workbench - and rechambering it in some odd shortened wildcat - but haven’t been able to get back to the shop recently.

Looks like I’ll need to pull out that 416 Rem Mag and take some measurements of the barrel. If it pans out the barrel will likely be on its way to Jesse O at JES for a 0.458” rebore. Weight and balance will likely be favorable and with 458 WM finishing reamer, it might all work out.

Time to look at the chamber spec diagrams and do a bit of mulling on feasibility. Only down side is creating another alternative to the resurrected Ruger RSM 450 Rigby Rimless I’ve been wanting to get over to Zim for the proverbial ‘next time’.

Loony wildcatter fevered minds just don’t seem to rest or reason. But as JOC said “It’s all about fun and games.” Given that life’s all too short, let the games resume!!

Crank:" I was impressed with how similar it was to the CZ 550 Magnum in .416 Rigby in weight and handling"
I disagree. I owned a CZ550 Magnum. It weighed as much as a M1 Garand. It had a 25" barrel screwed onto an action longer than M98. If I could afford a M98 modified to take the longer 416 Rigby I am sure it would handle better than a CZ550 Magnum but I have never handled one. Not only did the Ruger work great in Africa chasing buffalo but it has served me well in Alaska in bear country.

All the rifle advise is good and each has their place but I haven't seen anything about what you want to hunt. Theres no reason (other than I want one which is good enough) for a big bore if you aren't going after any nasty stuff.
I have only been to Africa twice so my experience is more limited than others. I used a 416 Taylor to take most everything from a Wharthog to Caper Buffalo on my second trip. The Taylor is a great caliber but you need to handload for it.
Your left handed so a suitable big bore in a LH rifle might be hard to find and undoubtly harder to sell later on. You have a 405 and like single shots so do I. I have #1's in 375,405 and 450-400 among others. If your safari is to be plaings game only your 405 is a fine canidate if you want something a bit bigger than the 450-400 is a good choice. If you have a LH rifle that your not in love with then consider rebarreling it to something you like maybe the 416 Ruger if it will accomadate the change.
Big bores aren't only for Africa, I load mine down and deer hunt with them. A 270 will tear up a deer worse than my 375, 405, 416 Taylor, 450-400 or .500 BPE
Whatever you decide to do one thing is certain you will have a great experience.

One of my shorter shots at 130 yards.

This is the item that got the ball rolling so to speak. In a previous post, I had asked the question about shooting deer-sized game with cartridges like you listed because I wanted to know if I was going to be mangling or destroying the smaller game.

I only have plans to hunt plains game. The largest most dangerous animal currently under consideration is buffalo. This is just long-term planning since retirement is still a few years away (I'm 62). A high school friend of mine is keen to go to Africa and keeps talking about it but no definitive plans have been made yet so I'm just trying to educate myself. The advice I've been getting has been excellent & much appreciated.

I'm not going after any nasty stuff. The most common advice in the previous thread was that I could accomplish my goals with my LH Sako 85 Hunter in 30-06 & a LH 375 H&H. Two classic calibers with wide ammo availability was considered a solid recommendation that covered a lot of situations. So that makes this particular thread more of a "I might just want one" kind of question. From published numbers describing the cartridges being discussed, I was pretty sure before I even asked the question that everything listed was going to be more than adequate for anything I would likely be doing.

I keep things pretty simple & after the kids left for college & the Army, I downsized substantially. So I don't have a large collection of rifles nor the room to store many more. I have ten centerfires with four of them being Ruger #1's & four being 1885's. Since I already have eight single-shot falling-blocks, my questions focused on acquiring LH bolt actions because that's what I wanted advice on. I started this thread for three reasons:
1) I didn't know much about these cartridges & had never shot them.
2) I wanted to know why some hunters preferred one over the other.
3) I think I would really enjoy shooting a larger caliber based on how much I like the slightly smaller ones I currently have. The fact that I don't really need one isn't carrying as much weight in the decision-making process as it probably should.

My Winchester 1885 Traditional Hunter in 405 is setup with iron sights to be used for primitive hunting in MS & LA. So the range is as good as my eyesight which is nothing to brag about. I do have a Winchester 1885 High Wall Safari Octagon in 375 H&H with a Swarovsk Z6 1.7-10x42. It's 10.7#, 46" overall with a 28" barrel. So once I sort out which large-caliber bolt action I want to anchor the top of my collection, I'll decide where to use my 30-06, 9.3x74r, 375 H&H & the 405. Obviously once an actual hunt is planned, a more informed decision can be made. I'm just absorbing information & opinions right now.

Going with the initial recommendation of a 30-06 / 375 H&H combination and then adding another Ruger #1 in a big unnecessary caliber just for the fun of it is an option being considered. I do like rimmed cartridges like my 303 British, 9.3x74r & 405 in a single shot so the 450/400 would be a good fit. This was a possible Plan B if acquiring a large LH bolt action proved difficult or prohibitively expensive. At this point, no options have been rejected.

About 18 months ago I came across a LH Cooper in 8mm Remington Magnum at an attractive price. But it was a caliber that didn't seem to be a good fit for my selection goals at the time. Now that this thread makes me realize what its 375 H&H parent case could have been rebored to in the 416~458 range, I wish I had a time machine. My Sako is my only LH centerfire so nothing available to rebore. All the rest are ambidextrous single shots (plus a Wilson Combat in 300 HAM'R just to have something from the current century).

Thanks! We usually always have a good time (even when everything is going sideways). I'm enjoying the research part right now. This has been great.

EdM: Nice looking buffalo!

Buy a big bore and use it on whatever you want.

This is my .460 Wby mag and some rabbits I killed with it.

That's excellent! Thanks for sharing the photos.

A few more rabbits killed with the .460 Wby.