Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Nice 1920 sold on gunbroker today

Had some figure in the stock.

SN 10,018, in 250-3000 and with a Lyman 54.

Love these guns.

Real pretty little gun.

Beautiful gun that I never knew existed! I just found out Calhoun has a book out. Congrats !! Alan

Thank ya. It doesn't cover the Model 1920's tho..

Forgot the link..

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1008188949

don't have a 1920. The bolt is on the wrong side.

I guess that it is a matter of prospective.

When you have several of them, one more is just one more unless there is something really special about it.

20/26

True, but that really goes for anything. I suppose if one had half a dozen Monarchs that one more wouldn't be anything special.

For those looking to add one or two nice ones to their collection, it's interesting.


LBK, still a 1920. Lighter stock, stripper clip cut in the receiver, rear sight blank.. The switch to the model 20/26 is close to this, but several hundred serial numbers higher. It'd be interesting to know if the peep sight was factory or later.. I'd presume later, but maybe they started the Lyman 54 installs before the other changes?

Seeing as though there is a dovetail cut in the barrel i am also betting the 54 was added later

Nope, a 1920 with a Lyman #54 installed.

20/26s started around 10,500. They changed to a heavier barrel contour, omitted the open rear sight in favor of the Lyman #54, swept the bolt handle toward the rear, and changed to a heavier contour stock without a pistolgrip cap.

1920s have 22" barrels in 250-3000 and 24" barrels in 300 SAV, while 20/26s all have 24" barrels.

The Model 20 a really underappreciated rifle! Both from standpoint of place in Savage history. Wider role of durned good, simple rifle in great chamberings! I have five of them. Rational, as every one relatively so cheap, as bargains. And all such acquisitions in those nowadays eras of nostalgia compounded as cross-board bargains!

My first as only 1920/26 'spur of moment' conundrum as curiosity. All original & great shape. All my pure 1920 editions following. One as super bargain in .250 as scope side-mounted at expense of grinding flat the left rail area to accommodate. As mounted, aesthetics OK and functional. As scope dismounted, pure utilitarian 'truck gun' context.

The amount of stock drop to butt is a bugger! Conversely, as largely mitigated to inconvenience in context of .250 mild recoil. The Winchester 54, early stock similar stye stock, but less drop. There, the '06 chambering as even moderate drop; garnering shooter's attention. Smartly!

My 20/26 Sn 10640. Any idea of high number & termination date of production?
Pix of it below!
Best! John

and the sling eyes...

Very late 1920's could be ordered with the Lyman 54 sight, but it doesn't say anything about sling swivels.

They ended just over 13,000.

Some years back I posted the information that Mr. Clark sent to me, including copies of the R&D log with the collection guns. IIRC, the change occurred in late June 1926. My earliest 20/26 is number 10,59x in 250-3000 that was accepted into the warehouse on the first or second day of production. If you're interested in the particulars, I can get my binder on the 1920s and 20/26s out when we have a rainy day and can't harvest.

The highest SN complete rifle that that I currently have is 12,5xx in 300 SAV. It isn't s catalog specs rifle, as the tail block isn't d&t for the Lyman #54 and it has an open rear sight in a barrel dovetail. If the tail block had been d&t for a Lyman #54, I would have thought that the open rear sight was done by a 'smith after the rifle left the factory, but the tail block isn't d&t, so if it left the factory with a rear sight, it seems likely, or at least possible, that open rear sight was installed in Utica.

I have an action in the 12,9xx range that doesn't have the clip slot in the rear receiver bridge. This action came to me from Alaska and had been d&t for a modified Redfield Junior one-piece turn-in base.

Gene, the 1922 and later price lists include sling eyes and sling for 99’s and 1920 - $2.50.

The 20/26 I worked on for CMHJohn was 12695 and was not cut for a stripper clip.

I snagged a great 1920 off an auction site a little while ago, it had been custom stocked by Griffin & Howe and wore a Lyman Alaskan in a G & H mount. Neither the auction house nor any of the bidders recognized it for what it was. I was more than happy to have been the winning bidder.

Awaiting the day you post that info Jeff. My interest is vested because of a number of Savage 250s: a M14, 1920/26 and a few other 1920s.






Saved the 300s for another image.

I am not certain. But I THINK I am the proud possessor of that rifle now, Bob. And below this one are a few of the others that I have.

Very nice, LBK! I've got a few, couple nice ones and a couple shooters.

Thank you.

That is indeed the rifle that I purchased at auction, once in a while I come across something like that one.

Thanks for parting with it. I appreciate it,

I'd like to try one of these someday, hopefully a .300. Given that they function as a bolt stop, how are the triggers?

The triggers are reminessent to the 2 stage military triggers. Many home grown gunsmiths try to "fix" them and do nothing but make matters worse. A trigger is a trigger. I like the ones I have and luckily only one has been dicked with,

The triggers suck.

There was a Michigan 'smith named Bob Snapp who would install a Winchester 70 style bolt release on a 1920. I think that Mark Benenson had one done. I looked into it and decided that the cost exceeded the value and usefulness that I would get out of it, so I passed.

My now deceased 'smith installed a Timney for a Mauser on a 1920 for me, just for something interesting to do. It required quite a bit of work and, again, the cost would have exceeded the value if I had had to pay for the work. It was a really abused 1920, so no real value at the time, the action was the only useful part, the rest being rusted or busted. He made it into a varmint rifle with a heavy Savage barrel in 22-250 that he modified to fit the receiver. He made the stock out of a piece of screw bean mesquite that he bought from some guy in Arizona. When he passed, I gave that rifle to his son.

Those are the exact same 3 words I would have used to answer that question.

It's obvious y'all don't spend any time with '03 Springfields, Krags, M1's, etc. The M1920 trigger is no worse (and no better) than any of them. You get used to them, and then learn to love them.

I just shoot the gun, really don’t give a lot of thought to the trigger

One of my earliest M1920 has a very satisfactory 2 stage trigger and shoots just over 1 3/8 groups with a Lyman 54 sight, frequently placing two shots a half an inch apart.

My current M1908 custom Mauser has double set triggers and feels quite pleasant to shoot. Has anyone thought to install a double set trigger in a M1920?

True.

The 1920 and 20/26 triggers are comparable to the other bolt action centerfire rifles of that era. Remington 30s, Winchester 54s, and Savage 40/45 Super Sporters weren't any better.

The standards/expectations in 2023 and quite different from what they were in 1923.

You might learn to love them, but I doubt that I'll ever get there. Accept them for what they are and act accordingly.

Yeah, we moderns forgot why the 2-stage trigger existed in the first place. Moving around in The Great Outdoors (or a battlefield) can be a risky venture, and the 2-stage trigger was designed to mitigate accidental discharges. Instead of a typical sear engagement wherein the parts are clinging together by the skin of their teeth, held back by a safety, the old 2-stager had an enormous amount of sear bite (also backed up by a safety). The exasperating long first stage of the pull was engineered, through leverage, to defeat almost all of that generous sear engagement leaving things now clinging by the skin of their teeth. The final stage of the pull then tripped it over the edge.

One accustomed to such a trigger simply takes up the first stage as the target is acquired, then knuckles down and performs the final let-off as the sight picture coalesces. Unless of course you're in a scared sh*tless situation on a battlefield (or a neophyte hunter) and you just yank the SOB in one fell swoop.

I think Savage designed the 99's sear engagement to be a little overly generous, entailing a generally long tedious trigger pull for much the same reasons I stated above, as a way to provide a safe sear engagement for rugged use. Incorporating a 2-stage pull to take up most of the engagement and provide a short crisp final pull for accurate shooting would've meant an even more Rube Goldberg design than what Art gave us. A much simpler task when done in a bolt gun, like the 1920, than in a lever gun with a remote control trigger like the 99's.

It never ceases to amaze me that the youngsters and gun scribes that cannot abide a 2 stage, flocked to the Savage accutrigger by the thousands, singing it's praises....when in fact, it is a 2 stage trigger with more moving parts.

"Accidental" firing is why Bearrr264 banned exposed hammer lever actions and anything with a DST from his hunts. If you brought one, he wouldn't let you use it, safety first.

Thanks for all the trigger discussion fellas. I grew up shooting milsurps so two stage triggers are no issue. Two stage triggers that suck, still suck. For the money these things bring this news is less than motivating. I reckon I should get one in hand before I go off and gunbroker it. Seeing as how Southeast Alaska isn't exactly overrun with fine vintage arms, this could take awhile.

two stage triggers don't bother me in the least, probably because I shot thousands of rounds through an M1 Garand while stationed in Guantanamo Bay. If you shoot enough different types of guns enough times you learn to adjust to the particular trigger.

EXACTLY

Everybody sees things based on their personal experiences.

There is quite a bit of inaccurate information on the 1920s floating around because the people who published their experiences actually had very little experience with them, often a very small sample size of only one or two different rifles. Layne Simpson published an article some years back that was about 50% accurate and Frank DeHaas had a similar degree of error in his chapter on the 1920s in his book on bolt action rifles. My point is that you can't assume that the guy writing the article is as well versed as his name recognition might suggest and that a random sample size of less than 30 isn't statistically significant to be representative of the thing being assessed.

They are neat little rifles, particularly the 1920s in 250-3000, and are as fun to shoot as any rifle. Probably not the rifle you would ever consider if sub-MOA accuracy is your goal, but they aren't bad for what they are.

Or as least that has been my personal experience with several dozen different 1920s and 20/26s.

Here's one that's a little different, a long action version that was on GunBroker, it either didn't sell or was not sold through GunBroker - gunbroker/item/1002236375

Ledgers don't have any data? Hmm.

Wow! Thx for posting Gene

How many long prototypes action did Savage create?

It has been relisted 3 times it appears.

There has been an occassional mention of a long action model 1920, but I was assuming it was just internet mythology..., are there really 25 "rumored" examples ?? Does anyone have any real provenance for even one long action prototype being made??

This looks pretty legit, it would be real convincing if most of the parts were also serial numbered to match, (and the extractor was full length..), but even the receiver number looks a bit odd, given the embellishment on the butt plate. How many parts would have to be one-off custom made for a long action 1920?; receiver, bolt body, firing pin, bottom metal, stock.. not to mention the tooling for any one of these changes..

I guess I have real skepticism around these parts for any stretch limousines..

Mr. Clark sent a copy of the page in the R&D inventory log showing 5 long action 1920 prototypes; 4 military rifle, 2 in 30-06, 1 each in 7x57 and 303 British, and the sporting rifle that is, or at least was, short chambered in 256 Newton. The sporting rifle is logged by serial number as being chambered in 30-06, but Benenson confirmed to me that it was short chambered in 256 Newton.

I know that Mark Benenson owned the 256 Newton not long after the R&D collection was auctioned off. Benenson and I had done a lot of business and he offered it to me for $1K, but that was during the time that I owned the Cellular company and was eating ramen noodles and hot dogs in order to pay the minimum monthly loan payments to BOA. Mark then sold it to a guy in Texas by the name of John Smyrl and when Smyrl died, his estate asked Bruce Jennings, the Newton collector and book author, to liquidate the guns. Jennings took the long action 256 Newton as payment. When Jennings died, his daughter sold his collection of guns and related stuff. Before Benenson and after Jennings I have no knowledge of where the sporting rifle has been or who owned it. Smyrl wrote a letter to me after Benenson sold him the rifle, telling me how stupid I was for not buying it, basically laughing in my face. That was the beginning of the falling out that I had with Benenson.

One of the biggest buyers at that auction was a Massachusetts dealer by the name of Peter Dowd. He, in turn, sold guns from that auction to J.R. "Lash" LaRue in Portsmouth, NH, and to the Kittery Trading Post in Kittery, ME. Kittery Trading Post has advertised the 7x57 and 303 British military style prototypes. I've seen pictures of them, both were rough job shop guns, with the 303 British looking like a MKIII Enfield with a 1920 action, same wood and magazine, but with a safety on the bolt shroud that looked like a First Model Newton.

The rumor about the long action prototypes is that the 30-06 versions were built to sell to the U.S. military to supplement the 1903 Springfield in WW1, the niche that was filled by the 1917 Enfield. The 7x57 rifle was intended for sale to South and Central American countries that were looking to replace their Remington Rolling Block rifles. Most went with Mausers, but one country bought modified Remington 30s, maybe Honduras, as their Model 1934. I would assume that the 303 British rifle was intended to help the British supplement their MKIII Enfield production.

The 1920 is actually a spin off of the long action prototype project. The long action came first and then the short action that was put into production. It makes you wonder why Savage didn't make a long action 1920 in 30-06, since they already had made the U.S. military prototypes.

PS - I have a rubbing of the aluminum trapdoor buttplate that Benenson sent to me when he offered to sell it to me.

Savage made a prototype 30-06 model 99 in the 1930's. It's displayed in the Savage factory showroom. Just another example of Savage experimenting.

Do you recall approximately the year that that auction occurred?

Thanks for posting the provenance of that 256, Jeff.

Now there's another M1920 I'd like to own - a 7x57 prototype.

Don't think I'll need to be breaking my gun buying moratorium any time soon.

.., Yes, impressive, Thank You for sharing

Latest listing for the Newton prototype:

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/1011732734

Anyone want to start casting or 3D printing custom Savage butt plates?

I was recently married and living in Hanover, NH, at the time, so I'm thinking that the auction was in either 1988 or 1989.

I bought the 1920 and 20/26 rifles that were in the R&D collection from J.R. LaRue, both of which he had purchased from Peter Dowd as confirmed by letters that I received from both Mr. Clark and someone whose name escapes me who worked for Savage.

There still is one of the 22's from the R&D collection listed at 'Collector Firearms' with a picture of the letter, it lists a ship date of April 13, 1988. collectorsfirearms/products/424-savage-1905-prototype

Here's their picture of the letter they have for that gun -

Many of the 22 caliber guns, including that one, were purchased from Peter Dowd by Richard Littlefield who started selling them off about 2010. Not all of the R&D guns had letters with them, they did not have that completed for all when they were sold. I acquired a couple prototype 22 pump's which did not, but have a letter from Mr. Littlefield stating he got them from Mr. Dowd and they were from the R&D collection.

Like that .22 with a hinge! ??

Ok thanks. Doesn't sound like an R&D gun from the 1988 dispersal, although it could have been an R&D gun.
Just trying to determine a "ship date" for #500,001. It's what collectors do!
I do have it narrowed down to between 1960 - 1982. DOM & Roe letter.

LaRue ran a large ad in the GUN LIST that listed dozens of R&D guns. I kept that page in my 1920 binder. When I find the binder and that ad, I'll let Rory scan it, if he wants to, so that everyone can see the R&D guns that LaRue was selling. LaRue didn't have all of the R&D guns, but he had a lot of them. He didn't advertise any of the long action 1920 prototypes, but at least 2 of them passed through Kittery Trading Post and KTP is only a couple of miles from LaRue's shop in Portsmouth, NH, so he might have had them before they got to KTP.

PS - I bought the 99C in 22-250 with SN RD1040 and 24V in 223/20 with SN RD1137 from KTP. On the day that I bought the 99C, there was 99A-BG and a 99DL with RD serial numbers in the same rack. I have been told that the 99DL was the actual prototype in 284. It was a 99DL with a 24" barrel and cut checkering, so it might have been, since Savage never cataloged a 24" 99 in 284.

It was my impression, emphasis on "impression", that all of the firearms sold from the R&D collection were accompanied by a letter like the one shown above and the several that I have seen were all signed by a Savage engineer by the name of Carl Hildebrandt. Some of the letters remained with the guns, as do mine, while some were lost or just discarded by an owner who wasn't interested in maintaining the chain of ownership provenance. When I bought the 1920 and 20/26 from LaRue, he had to look through a stack of those letters that was at least 3" thick to find the two that went with my rifles. If I hadn't specifically asked him for all of the documenation, I probably never would have received it.

PS - I have seen a couple of the Savage letter signed by Carl Hildebrandt that had Peter Dowd's name and address physically cut out of them as if done with a razor blade or Exato knife. Why? I have no idea.

The triggers are exactly the same as 2 stage military triggers. If you cut your teeth on Enfields, Mausers, Krags or 03 Springfields you will undertand how to manage the pull on a 1920/26 Savage. My 20/26 has a definite first stage "take up" and second stage release. And a two stage trigger bolt gun makes total sense give the historical context of the rifle's design and marketing.

You might want to consider a .250 instead. A 1920 in .300 will shiver your timbers with each trigger pull.

I imagine it would! I have a decent 1920 in 250-3000. Mine only has barrel sights. In the hand, it feels like a 22 single shot. A 30 cal bullet leaving that little thing in a hurry would surely be painful to the guy who pulled the trigger. I wouldn't be surprised if cracked stock wrists weren't common on them.
I always considered the 1920 to be "the original mountain rifle".

The felt recoil of the 1920s in 300 SAV is believed to be a contributing factor for Savage's redesign of the "Improved" Model 20, the style we commonly referred to as the 20/26, with the heavier contour barrel and stock. The 20/26 is a significantly heavier and different feeling rifle than the original 1920. IMO, the 1920 is the better platform for the 250-3000 and the 20/26 is the better platform for the 300 SAV.

It seems to me that Savage would potentially have sold a lot of long action 1920s in 30-06 and later in 270, but for reasons that nobody alive today knows, they chose not to build those rifles.

HB

Darn. Now I have another item that I'll feel the need to pursue.

I was just about ready to post this very thought until I caught yours. I have a 20/26 in 300 and the barrel contour is identical to the 99.