Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game Maine grouse?

Is anyone seeing many? They are more scarce than I’ve ever experienced around our camp south of Millinocket. We saw a few in the road around Telos a few weeks ago but nothing here.

Put up 3 in the western mountains today.

Headed up to Zone 1 on Wednesday for 3 days

I just got back from Jackman, was rainy and overcast. Put up 4 bird's all out of tree's missed the only shot I had. Saw 1 road bird but he was a runner and I never got to shoot at him. I walked a fair amount of ground and I don't think there is a lot of bird's. Certainly not like year's past.

They will be everywhere, when the snow flies and a centerfire rifle is in my hands.
Like every year.

Just back from our trip. 5 guys killed 23 in 3 days. They were few and far between. Zones 2 and 5. I live in 6 and saw very few all summer

I talked to a guy at the rest area in Medway yesterday . His party had been up in the Telos area for 9 days and they saw 5.

9 days and 5 birds is quite surprisingly awful. Wow.

23 in 3 days is probably the best I've heard yet from anyone.

I'll bring my flush counter with me again this year. We've had 4 straight years of 70+, I know we won't get that this year. Still looking forward to it like a kid on Christmas however!

If you can believe the tracker feature on OnX, I averaged over 13 miles a day on foot. That is a lot of country for a few birds.

Were you hunting with dogs? Any woodcock?

Packing my stuff up now

Boys just came back from 8. Two days, two birds shot over their dogs.
Weak showing this year.

No dogs just a lot of walking.

I saw 2 woodcock.

Zone 3, Very wet spring. I didn"t see any birds all summer. Flushed one today. I am not hopeful for this season.

Yeah zone 3 has been pretty bad. Been going most nights after work and seeing nothing. Same with the northern part of 6.

I finally saw a few two days ago in the JoMary area. One single that I missed and three together that escaped unharmed. The good news is that our little Springer Spaniel is very eager to find game and seems to be getting less nervous about loud noises.

Roxanne Quimby should start planting oak and apple trees in all the clear cut land she has purchased. She won't let you hunt on her land, but at least there will be habitat and a food source for future populations of deer and grouse ("pahtridge").

We put up 35 grouse and 16 woodcock in 3 days not running too hard. About 1/3 of what we normally do on grouse. A lot of woodcock around this year, much more than normal for the area we hunt

Too wet in June and killed the clutch.

So one week left. How was your season?

I did not shoot a single grouse this year. First skunked season ever.

Ended up killing 21. Over all a much better season than anticipated. I found a couple of good pockets and stayed with it.

That said I’ve been doing a good bit of shed hunting and have yet to see a bird.

2023 was a wet year for Maine grouse and they are cyclical.

Yes 2023 was a wet year and the numbers are way down. I usually have between 3-8 around the house eatng berries. This winter none.

If it doesn't snow we might see a very dry spring, unless it rains.


Lol

I snow shoe daily for about an hour in the woods around our home in Kennebec county. Typically will see grouse tracks in the snow and flush 1-2 each week. I don't recall seeing any grouse tracks this winter, and haven't flushed any. No turkey tracks in the snow either. On the good side, I haven't heard too much coyote howling at night this winter.

I did a 3 mile walk behind the house yesterday. Lynx, coyote, fox, fisher, marten, and snowshoe hare tracks. Not a single partridge track.

At least you guys still have some - Pennsylvania is nearly barren! I haven’t shot a grouse in PA in over a decade now. Really sad state of affairs - especially when I used to have 30-40 flush days from the 70’s when I started hunting them through the early 2000’s. Now if I see a grouse or two per year it gives me a little hope?! Wild Brook Trout have gone the same way - really is concerning (to me anyway).

PennDog

Walked into camp on snowshoe. It's a bit less than quarter mile. Moose, coyote, fox, rabbits but no sign of partridge.

Another Pa GC failure as they watched them wink out. But look at the good side....They are the keeper of Eagles and other raptors. While introducing Fishers and Martins. I suspect they are a little hard on Grouse being hatched. Along with putting out videos on how to field dress a Deer. While putting in a plug you shouldn't use lead bullets.

Very few on the left...and the Pa GC is infiltrated with them....are pro hunting.

Same situation here in NY. I flushed one grouse last season. I see several fishers every season and tracks everywhere. Of course the fishers are protected and you aren't supposed to shoot them.

I'm jealous of all you guys and this Grouse talk!

Well the PA Game Commission has more than its share of faults but the needle is pointing to climate change as the main reason - at least with the biologists that I talk too - I too am a biologist (being educated is another conspiracy that many choose to embrace these days - call it “brainwashing”🤔) - West Nile virus seems to be the issue and not sure what the PAGC can do about that one??

Wild Brook trout have disappeared because of acidic rainfall and a geology that has little buffering capacity - that would be the PA Fish Commission’s fault? People need to take some responsibility and quit pointing fingers - I am personally using my “brainwashing” to further a restoration and recovery program in PA using passive limestone addition in the headwaters of native Brook Trout streams to aid the recovery - am hoping future generations can enjoy the native trout fishing that I once did.

There are biologists out there (PAGC and others) that are trying to also help the recovery of the grouse - hopefully they will be successful and I offer my aid where ever possible - will it help - not looking good especially since so many others are willing to complain but do very little in helping or looking for a resolution.

PennDog

PennDog, I know…I’m repeating myself.

Re WNV and our Grouse. Their study and resulting conclusions was based on injecting undeveloped embryos with WNV. Embryos that don’t have a fully functioning immune system. What would one think the possible outcome may be? In addition for any medical research to be conclusive it must be repeated, along with double blind placebo trials. Which means I’m not about to agree they have solved the problem with this one trial. Combine it with the fact for decades their stock answer was habitat. And then by their own admission, when they finally were dragged into the wood, they found that wasn’t reality. They are no longer independent of the politicians…and we know it is rare for that clan to not have an excuse.

Then they brag on the Fisher/Martin releases.

How about we spend hunter dollars on Eagle cams? Wouldn’t one think the Audubon Society and the birders should be carrying that flag?

https://www.media.pa.gov/Pages/Game-Commission-Details.aspx?newsid=93

See the “little” PAGC Logo bottom left? What… maybe they don’t want the hunters to find out?

https://hdontap.com/index.php/video/stream/bald-eagle-live-cam

And then the previous mentioned film were the GW says we shouldn’t be using lead bullets for Deer hunting. Or at minimum insinuates the same. Beginning of something bigger in the future?

And you question why I think they are increasingly becoming part of the anti-hunting left. They have been infiltrated.

Understand Battue - many of the points you bring up are reasons not to trust them as a government agency - as too many of their employees are trained in everything but reality. While WNV is the current hot button for the grouse decline it is not a certainty (with science being what it is - an ever moving target). What is a certainty is that all parts of the environment are showing red flags - especially with many of the most “sensitive” species (and my favorites). These warnings are mostly being ignored - which is very frustrating for me to watch happen - I’m trying to do what I can to alter the seemingly inevitable outcomes but am getting to the point where it may just be a distant hope?

PennDog

In addition…. You being further North may not see it as much. However, down here their landowner/ hunter relationship is a complete failure. Entire counties are essentially posted. One reason is QDM antler restrictions. And while it has proven itself to work….the Bucks are significantly more impressive…the landowner thinks they can keep them on their land by not having others on it. Nothing they have done has resulted in more posted land than Antler restrictions. And it trickles all the way down to small game hunting. Combined with the fact it makes it more difficult for the younger generation to just go and hunt. And some wonder why hunting license sales are in decline. Or is that the ultimate goal????

6 weeks of archery….or most often crossbow today….and again by their admission 50% of the Bucks are gone by the time the two week rifle season arrives. Which has drastically changed the Pa Deer hunting traditions. Of course they love the silent killers. Less calls that needed answering.

The left is inside the tent….and welcomed….more than ever.

Public relations…. Pheasant hunting I left my license in another jacket. The GW was there and I walked up and told him. All he had to do was run my SS through his vehicle computer to verify I was legal. His response….”Looks like you don’t hunt today.” In addition there is a Pheasant hunting stamp….I watched him interact with a group of hunters. Did he ask one to see their license? Guess….

Here in the Midwest we had a banner year. I have never seen as many grouse as this last year. We have had a very mild winter so I have high hopes for this coming fall.

Here in Central NYS they are far and few between.

Hey 160user,

One of the reasons last fall was such a banner year was all the snow we received. Snow is a much better insulator against the cold than other roosting cover (often 30 degrees) as well as providing far more protection from predators. It has little impact on food sources as winter foods are overwhelmingly aspen and alder catkins in the north. That the winter was followed by a dry spring during and immediately following the hatch was greatly helpful. This year I have some concerns as the snow cover was so much less making predation higher. At least there wasn't fridgid weather to worsen the mix.

The greatest problem is lack of habitat, or maybe a better description would be changing habitat. Many believe there is not a problem on that front as they see plenty of forests but they only see the obvious and not the details. Our aspen forests are aging as the pulp industry has crashed. Many mills have closed in the last three decades and the remaining ones are not as busy. That means the aspen woods are older and less grouse friendly overall. An aspen woods needs to be logged about every 40 years of which maybe 15 are prime for grouse hunting. With the collapse in pulp prices about 20 years ago what habitat out there is rapidly aging beyond its prime. This aging is not helped by an increase in private land ownership of whom the majority are loath to have their properties logged or otherwise managed for grouse. This leads to another problem - changing forest types.

In Minnesota the classic grouse cover is early to mid-growth aspen woods. With the lessened logging that is turning into maple/basswood/oak type forests. This is not a good forest type for grouse though those who only recognize there are trees present would think it good habitat. I own/manage a couple sections of land in northern Minnesota and I have noticed that the oaks that were present have increased in number and maples, ash, basswood, and the like have become present. This in spite of a regular logging program for over 4 decades. Further south and the numbers of these "interlopers" are even more noticeable.

A final issue is fragmentation and access of lands. Private cabins and other uses has lead to a change in forest densities and utilization. This may not be readily apparent to many but an acre or two here and a couple more there add up in the grand scheme of things. This can be difficult to see from aerial photos but actually getting up in a plane every year and observing the ground can be eye opening. Access is another consideration. In the last 30 years the use and popularity of ATVs has grown tremendously. These vehicles allow ready access into areas that were once rarely accessed by hunters. These formerly inaccessible areas were kind of refuge areas where excess birds dispersed from and into more used areas. Now, hunters on ATVs access areas in minutes that took hunters on foot hours (if ever) to get to. This puts a strain on what were once surplus birds that repopulated more heavily hunted areas.

Disease can also be an issue as can predators but those can be mitigated to a fair extent with habitat. If a combination of these two factors kill 60% of the population per year then prime habitat that yields 50 birds will have more to carry on than poorer habitat that yields only 20. Predators having a significant impact on populations are more a sign of poor habitat as predators have been around for a good long time. Our prime grouse areas are rife with predators but the quality and quantity of the forests have been able to allow grouse and other animals to handle predation.

What it really boils down to is habitat. One needs both quality and quantity to maintain a population. With both one will have high populations of the given animal. Lack one or both and populations will plummet.

Shows how adaptable Ruffed Grouse are....Here in Pa aspens were a minor food source and habitat. Their numbers were greatest in emerging quality Deer habitat. Oaks-wasn't rare to find one or two acorns in a crop-, beech, wild grapes, some type of small red berry bush could hold what seemed to be actual coveys, crabapple, dogwood, a variety of bud and leaves, insects and many more. Yet when we would go to Wisconsin it would be mainly aspen. Thick pine tree covers were always a winter hot spot. I've seen when you could put out 20-30 in a 200-300 walk.

North of I 80 they still get some good winters, along with rotational timbering in some areas. Yet they have never came back in numbers even close to the good years.

Additional questionable Pa GC antics.....

https://www.lancasterfarming.com/co...d6342f0-4e4f-59cb-a96b-73cf20f114f0.html

Cold and fairly dry in the top of Maine this spring. Fire danger is elevated today and that is really early. The Patridge population may get a break, and two hatches is a possibility.

Dry is generally a good thing providing it doesn't negatively impact first insect numbers and then forbs and other ground food sources for the chicks. It will be far more important at the end of May to mid June when the chicks hatch and they are still in their "fuzz" stage.

No matter what, grouse do not bring off more than one brood per year. There may be multiple renesting attempts per year if the nest is lost but once the eggs hatch that is it until next year.