Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Poll: Do you hunt with a round in the chamber?

The discussion here is about physically loaded and unloaded firearms. As are my comments. Mistaken beliefs do not change the facts of whether a firearm is loaded or not.

I�ll accept your resort to personal attack as your tacit admission that you�ve lost the argument on the basis of merit.




While treating every gun as if it was loaded is good practice, it does not change the fact that a loaded gun can still fire while an unloaded gun cannot. The safest situation is an unloaded gun as there is ZERO chance of it being fired. Handling it as if it was loaded does not make it safer but remains good practice.




Not at all. I can load a cartridge firearm form the magazine in a second or so. It takes me much longer with my muzzlestuffers. As a result I tend to hunt hot with the muzzlestuffers far more frequently.

I�ll accept your resort to personal attack as your tacit admission that you�ve lost the argument on the basis of merit.

Treating all firearms as if they are loaded is good practice, as I stated above.

Treating an unloaded firearm as if it were loaded does not, however, make it safer. What it does do reinforce good habits. Treating all firearms as if they were loaded reduces the chance of an accidental discharge when a firearm actually is loaded - whether the condition is correctly known or not.

It's a discussion you seem to have difficulty grasping. I'll accept your inability to comprehend various figures of speech and metaphorical statements as your tacit admission that you're just a very inexperienced individual for whom discussion is often difficult and labored.


So you hunt with an unloaded muzzleloader?


Your "logic" thus far for hunting with a loaded muzzleloader vice a loaded cartridge firearm is that it takes you longer to load the muzzleloader. So by your "logic," it should be okay to hunt with a round in the chamber of a cartridge firearm as long as you leave the rest of your ammo back in the truck. Great plan.

Go ahead and try to explain again how a capped and loaded muzzleloader is safer than a loaded cartridge firearm.

If I were stationary, I would hunt with a round in the chamber. But when I'm mobile, no, never. I consider this unsafe. And my WYO guide would have a fit too!!!!!!!!!!!

More personal attack. Nice. Proves my point that you can�t argue based on the facts.


By my definition (no powder or bullet in the barrel), no. It takes me much too long to load them, although I have waited until I was far from the vehicle to load powder and bullet. Don�t really consider walking around with no powder and bullet in the barrel �hunting�. By the State of Colorado�s official definition (uncapped, whether there is powder and bullet in the barrel or not), frequently. It only takes a moment to cap the nipple (although still considerably longer than chambering a round from the magazine) and there are times I prefer the additional safety of an uncapped nipple. By the way, my go-to muzzlestuffer is a Remington M700 ML. Same trigger group and safety as the standard M700�s. (The other is a more traditional Thompson with a side-hammer.)

Your argument is a non sequitor, by the way.

Your "logic" thus far for hunting with a loaded muzzleloader vice a loaded cartridge firearm is that it takes you longer to load the muzzleloader. So by your "logic," it should be okay to hunt with a round in the chamber of a cartridge firearm as long as you leave the rest of your ammo back in the truck. Great plan.
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Another non sequitor.

What I�ve said consistently was I hunt with both loaded and unloaded chambers depending on the circumstances. I�m quite comfortable doing so because it only takes a second to chamber a round, whether with my bolt guns or my levers. I tend to hunt hot (capped, with powder and bullet in the barrel) with my muzzlestuffers because loading time is much longer � not because a loaded muzzlestuffer is safer than a loaded cartridge rifle but because the time lost in loading them could cause lost shot opportunities. That said it is not uncommon for me to walk into or out of an area with an empty barrel and uncapped nipple. As noted above I don�t really consider such walks �hunting�. It is not uncommon for me to no cap on my Remington yet have powder and bullet in the barrel, although by and large this condition is considerably less frequent than an empty chamber in my cartridge rifles.




Twist it anyway you want, but I�ve never said a loaded (capped, with powder and bullet in the barrel) muzzlestuffer is any safer than a cartridge firearm with a loaded chamber. Never said it or even suggested it, no matter how obliquely. Nor do I believe it to be the case.

I hunt hot or cold depending on the circumstances of the moment and have not advocated one method or the other. All I�ve done is point out the obvious - that unloaded firearms are safer than loaded firearms. Apparently some here think that good handling technique can overcome the potential danger of a loaded firearm, rendering them as safe as unloaded firearms. Such arguments defy both logic and common sense.

Remember- Don't hunt while your loaded.

So, just to make sure I understand, you mean you would unload before you get loaded?

Or is it, don't get loaded while you're loaded?

Or is it okay to get loaded while you're loaded, but only if the circumstances would make being unloaded while you're loaded more dangerous than being loaded-loaded?

Absolutely not. It's an observation of your communication style based on your inability to understand certain figures of speech, the inability to understand metaphors, the inability to notice how certain words are emphasized by being placed in quotations, and your literal interpretation of various statements.


My argument asks for a simple yes or no answer. You've instead chosen to respond with a rather creative answer describing Colorado's legal definition of a loaded firearm that only thinly disguises your hypocrsiy.

I'll break it down to your terms: do you or do you not hunt with an UNCAPPED muzzleloader? Just answer yes or no.

Absolutely not. It highlights your hypocritical argument.

What you've stated consistently is you believe the time required to load a muzzleloader somehow makes it less dangerous than a loaded cartridge firearm.


I haven't seen anything yet in anything you've posted in this discussion that would qualify as either logic or "common" sense. You've stated that you think it's too dangerous to hunt with a loaded cartridge firearm, but you don't apply the same safety practice to a muzzleloader because you take longer to load it. You're either a hypocrite with regards to safety or you're very inexperienced with firearms.

In a word, "Yes".

Now that's the best advice of this entire thread!


I can't believe this thread is still alive........



Casey

Troll built himself a 22 page bridge.....

Just when you thought it was safe to go into the woods:

Its personal attack whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.



What I�ve done was provide conflicting definitions, the legal definition for this state and my own, as well as how I hunt. You ask if I hunt with an uncapped muzzlestuffer and the answer is clearly provided in my post above as �frequently�. That would be a �Yes� in some circumstances and a �No� in others. There is no hypocrisy there, just decisions to act differently as I see fit in varying circumstances.




Another non-sequitor, yes. The time required to load a firearm does not affect the safety of the loaded firearm. The reason I tend to hunt with a loaded (capped with powder and bullet in the barrel) muzzlestuffer more frequently than with a loaded cartridge rifle is that doing otherwise (even with just the cap removed) would cause me to lose shot opportunities that would not be lost with a cartridge rifle that simply needed to be loaded from the magazine.





On the contrary, I have never stated or suggested that and do not believe it to be true.

Let me be as clear as I can here � my belief is that a loaded (capped with powder and bullet in the barrel) muzzlestuffer is just as dangerous as a cartridge firearm that has a loaded chamber. That is why I often remove the cap just as I would empty a chamber.




To repeat myself, I hunt hot or cold with BOTH my cartridge rifles and muzzlestuffers as I feel appropriate for the circumstances at hand.

And contrary to your assertion, I have NEVER stated I think �it's too dangerous to hunt with a loaded cartridge firearm�. This is (at least) the second assertion you�ve made regarding my statements that is a complete fabrication.

Perhaps you would see the logic in my statements if you weren�t so busy inventing things to attribute to me that I haven�t said.

Where I hunt, yes I always have a round in the chamber. If hunting some area in another part of the country where you need to hike or climb and not worry about jumping the animal you're hunting I could see where circumstances might be different.

Perhaps you're just a little insecure and thin-skinned, but I'm only posting my observations. Whether you acknowledge it or not.


Can you or can't you just answer yes or no?


Again, you're trying to stretch things here and justify your answer by making 2 + 2 = 5. You're trying to justify one firearm is safer than the other simply because it takes you longer to load it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfq5kju627c



No, you've stated over and over that you believe it's dangerous to hunt with a round in the chamber of a cartridge firearm. Yet when the same circumstances are applied to a muzzleloader -- a "muzzlestuffer," in your parlance -- you state that you hunt more often with a capped, live muzzleloader becuase you're afraid you'll miss a shooting opportunity. That line of thinking by itself tells me you're either an over-confident firearms neophyte or simply a hypocrite about safety.


No, you've stated that you think it's more dangerous to hunt with a live round in the chamber of a cartridge firearm than a capped and loaded muzzleloader. That's your assertion, not mine.


I've only had to quote your posts. I'm too tired and lazy to invent anything.

To summarize what I've gleaned from your posts:

You believe it's basically a dangerous condition to hunt with a live round in the chamber of a cartridge firearm, though you sometimes do as the circumstances dictate.

You believe it can be dangerous to hunt with a capped and loaded muzzleloader, though you tend to do more often than not because of the length of time it takes you to cap one.

You think the two types of firearms can't be compared even though they both launch projectiles that can be potentially hazardous to the recipient.

You are unfamiliar with the adage "More people have been shot with 'unloaded' guns than with loaded guns." (Note the quotation marks.)

Those are your beliefs are they not? (Just answer yes or no.)

My take is every gun should be treated as if it were loaded. Safety rules should be applied consistently to ALL firearms and under ALL circumstances. Anything less highlights your ignorance or hypocrisy.

Bricktop
Without going into the argument, simply addressing your argumentation tactics... Enough is afriggin' 'nough!

Where do you get the idea you can ask questions that can only be answered "yes" or "no" in an open forum. That may work in the courtroom. May work where somehow you are appointed top dog, but not here.

You have continued to rephrase the argument and attributed statements to others not made by the other. Every post you make is the same.

Now, can we let this POS thread die?
art

Art:

The point was I was asking a for a simple answer to a simple question, not some long, drawn-out treatise on the theory of relativity.

....Ever hear the old hunter's story of how bad it got when he turned on the trail and saw a grizzly charging, no cartridge in the chamber, three in the magazine, and four in his pocket.....NO, you hadn't heard him tell it? I didn't figure you had..(Playing of TAPS here)...

You�re obviously in a state of denial, but that�s OK.



�Yes� and �No� are not always appropriate answers, as is the case here. Neither would be entirely correct as I hunt with my muzzle stuffers both capped and uncapped depending on circumstances. As I said before �You ask if I hunt with an uncapped muzzlestuffer and the answer is clearly provided in my post above as �frequently�. That would be a �Yes� in some circumstances and a �No� in others. � If you must try to simplify the answer to a single word, choose one. You will be partially correct either way.





Please show me where I�ve stated anything of the kind. You can�t because I haven�t. Instead I�ve repeatedly stated that both are equally dangerous. Once again you�re making things up and attributing them incorrectly to me.



Since many people and animals have been shot with loaded firearms, accidently or intentionally, and none have ever been shot with an unloaded firearm, one might reasonably conclude loaded firearms are more dangerous.

The level of danger varies due to the circumstances extant. Sometimes the danger increases to a level I am unwilling to accept, in which case I modify my behavior. Even with my cartridge rifles there are times when I am willing to accept a higher level of danger than I am at other times. There is nothing hypocritical about that.



Once again you�re making things up.

Please show me where I made such a statement and I�ll concede your point.




You have attributed a number of statements to me that I have never made. In such cases you have NOT quoted me because there is nothing to quote.




What I�ve contended is that it is more dangerous to hunt with a loaded firearm than an unloaded one, for the simple reason that no one and no animal has ever been shot with an unloaded firearm.

And yes, I hunt with both hot and cold weapons depending on circumstances at the time.


Yes, a loaded muzzlestuffer is just as dangerous as a loaded cartridge rifle.

And yes, I often treat them differently. There have been many times when I have hunted with a loaded muzzlestuffer (capped with powder and ball in the barrel) in situations where I would have an empty chamber in my cartridge rifles. More frequently, however, in situations where I would empty the chamber of my cartridge rifles I will remove the cap from my muzzlestuffers.



I said comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. Apples and oranges are easily compared and in fact, as you pointed out, have many similarities. They are equally dangerous when loaded but their mechanical differences are significant enough to warrant, in my case, handling them differently in the field.




Actually I am quite familiar with it but disagree. Whether you define �unloaded� as �actually unloaded� or �loaded but mistakenly believed to be unloaded�, many millions more people have been shot with �loaded� firearms than �unloaded� firearms.

No one has ever been shot with an unloaded firearm. A mistaken belief that a firearm is unloaded does not make it so.




No � I take no credit for the things you made up and attributed to me.




My take is that loaded guns are always more dangerous than unloaded guns and that no amount of safe handling can make loaded guns as safe as unloaded guns.

I do agree, however, that good handling technique requires that guns be treated as if they are loaded. Better safe than mistaken and sorry.



[Edited to correct a spelling error ("forearms" instead of "firearms") and to add the missing word "be" in the second to last sentence.]

Again, can't we just let this die?