Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Lube

Gaschekt mentioned another topic in my other thread that I need to question.......bullet lube.


In my naivety I've always assumed bullet lube is just bullet lube. I'm guessing that's not the case.

So what do you fellers like with what alloy?

Not at all apposed to a home brew either, with the old school approach I'm taking with all this. I mean, after all I use rendered bear fat for patch lube in my flintlocks because I don't believe there's anything better made commercially.

For the casting I've done I've always just used the RCBS sticks that fit my Lyman sizer. That good? Or is there something more appropriate?

I have a fair supply of Beeswax if that's a goodly component to use in a home brew.

I need to finalize my recipe for my homemade bullet lube recipe, but it's something like 50% pure beeswax, 30% avocado oil, 20% hoglard. These are the three ingredients used, though I have added slightly more oil to this to get the softness that works well in my Lyman 450 luber sizer

Have the beeswax already, and I've a lot of rendered hog lard in the freezer I use for deer sausage, so that sounds easy enough.

Good thread, guess I missed it when I looked back through stuff.

There are hundreds of pages on lubes on Cast Boolits, each one better than the other. Unlike 98% of cast shooters, I run generously oversized bullets in dimensions that would cause most shooters to faint. As dropped from the mold, dimensions. And I slobber them with Lee Liquid Alox. No problems in 32" barrel and 28" barrels.Ringing steel at 600 in trapdoors, good enuff fer me. Lazy Flintlocke

Back during my first ventures into casting I tried some Lee Alox on a GC 270 bullet from an RCBS mold. I think it was a 130 grain that dropped an average of 127 ish grains. I still have that stuff tucked away somewhere but have long since parted with anything 270Win. I remember it shooting phenomenally well but the speeds with PB powder at the time made it just a plinker round and I moved on to other things. The Lee Alox seemed sticky for a long time IRCC.

Do you clean it off the exposed bullet nose or otherwise keep it off? Seems like it would pick up a lot of dirt/lint.

The liquid alox tumble lube stuff is ok for low vel work, as evidenced by flintlocke's success. I don't know anybody who would recommend it for higher velocity.

My staple is good old 50/50 alox/beeswax. In my case it's Javelina brand 50/50 lube, but the stuff isn't made anymore - I laid in a lifetime supply thank god. My suggestion: check out White Label lubes. They make a wide range of good products including, I think, 50/50 lube, and they're nice folks to deal with.

As for homebrews, they're all well and good if you like experimenting. For me, I have better ways to spend my time than trying to save a couple bucks on proven commercially available bullet lubes.

Like you, I swear by bear grease for my round ball patches. (But the demands of cast rifle bullets are quite different.)

Need a "like" feature on this site.

The basic requirements/criteria of an appropriate lube, are?

Stay with the bullet the whole trip out the barrel.
Help facilitate no leading.

What else?

Does a star pattern on the muzzle indicate things are working correctly?

That's pretty much it. I love seeing a grease star on my muzzles.

And a shiny barrel

In the interests of full disclosure, I do add a little mineral spirits to thin LLA, and it dries pretty good, eventually almost like .22 rimfire rounds, kinda varnishy but not sticky.
I carefully store cast bullets in places like my pockets, dashboard and glovebox of pickup, floorboards of the jeep...this adds a small amount of grit keeping my bores shiny and well lapped...and then there is the lint, if you think about that it's kinda like a micro paper patched bullet...every cloud has a silver lining.
Edit, I notice in the Fouling Shot magazine, Gnoahhh mentioned White Lube...it's dominant in the winners circle of the published match results.

Then there's the absence of the old standard Alox 2138 from the marketplace. It was the "Alox" in those old formulas that got everybody's attention a couple generations ago. Then they quit making it a while back, of course. I don't know how the current iterations of Alox products fare because I moved heaven and earth to acquire about 50 sticks of old formula Javelina Alox 50/50 lube (although I don't hear negative reports). Yeah, I'm a stick in the mud about some things but dammit the stuff has worked universally well for me for over 50 years now - and like I said I have more important ways to spend my time than re-inventing the wheel!

On the other hand there is the subject of wax wads for in the case mouths of schuetzen rifles being shot via breech seating. I noticed a distinct improvement in accuracy when shooting my Pope-barreled .32-40 when I tried using a wax wad. The wax I used was dental wax which comes in thin sheets, and the protocol is to press the charged case mouth into the sheet like a cookie cutter, which leaves a wad in the mouth. The downside was a sorta nasty waxy build up in the throat, but strangely it helped rather than hindered. The goal over the winter is to brew up some old wax formulas published by the old masters, guys like Niedner, Pope, Leopold, etc. and see if I can make my own wax sheets for this purpose. I would simply buy some but nobody is catering to a crowd that might buy a total of five pounds of it nationwide.....

There was a time back before the War when putting a wax wad under jacketed bullets was all the rage. Claims of screaming high velocities, better accuracy, and with little or no jacket fouling abounded. Then it was discovered that the bloody things were jacking pressures up at the same time for some reason and the use of wax wads for that application died a quiet death.

Beeswax and enough Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer to soften after blending works as well as LBT for me.

Still gunning 35 Whelens at 2500 with 250s loaded from 15 years ago..

I switched to White Label BAC lube last winter because I was down to two sticks of Gnoahh’s beloved Javelina. I have had good luck with it. Soft enough to run through my Star with no heat. Shiny barrels with minimal leading and good accuracy.

99 percent of my usage is handguns with velocity ranging from 750-1250 fps.

It’s cheap and the people that make it are nice to deal with.

What's the difference between "pistol lube" and "rifle lube" as far as what happens with it in the barrel? I'm assuming that "rifle lube" is a little harder and more durable for the longer trip.

I mean, to the extreme, my son is using crisco in his cap & ball and I'd never even want to try that in a rifle. I've always just used the same "rifle lube" in 45LC plinker loads and I don't think I've ever had a problem with it.

My goal here though is strictly rifle loads for hunting deer.

Probably the best resource is found here.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

Feral. All of your questions will be answered when you start molding bullets, making lube, and shooting. Your specific needs and therefore alloy performance requirements will be different than anyone else. First have a goal in mind and then study up on how to make it.

I wanted to make the well studied and proven Lyman #2 alloy. I bought tin and antimony from rotometals and made close to 100 lbs of ingots. I got my lube recipe from the website above and it works. Turns out any reasonable combination will work just fine.

During my actual molding process I found that I only need half of my alloyed ingots and half scrap lead to still make sufficiently hard bullets. I've loaded Lee 309-170 gas checked and lubed bullets to 2700fps in a 26" 308 win target barrel for excellent accuracy and no leading. Just a shiny barrel and hardly worse for the wear. Milder powder charges will do as lubed bullets go faster because of the reduced friction. They are more efficient. In the 308 win the load above is 38.0grs of IMR-4895. Go shooting and have fun.

Good advice

What I'm NOT seeing here is a rave review for the RCBS stick lube I've always used, as first, or any, choice by any of y'all. I'll take that under advisement and look into some of the other suggestions here. I don't have a heater on my lubrisizer so the RCBS stuff has always been a bit of a pain to get flowing when the shop is on the cool side. Never really cared if it missed a spot on pistol plinker rounds but these rifles I want to do right.

I've used the RCBS lube before in 44 mag, 357 mag, and 45-70. It worked for me.

Been using hard lubes for a number of years now. I have a product named “Red Roster” right now in the sizer but after that's gone I'm switching to “Lyman Range Magic”. As lone as the leading problem stays under control, I'm happy. A heater is needed for these lubes so keep that in mind.

👍

back on the cast bullet forum 20 years ago half the posts were on lube and recipes. it all ended when larrs (white label) started making his lube. he has lubes to fit anyones need. they work as good as anything and there cheaper than your going to pay for filtered bees wax. than came pc and it made them all obsolete. i havent used my star to lube bullets for probably 5 years

Obsolete? How praytell?

with pc you can shoot any alloys even pure at any speed without leading and without gas checks and your gun doesnt get all gunked up with lube. shoots as clean as pure. hps out of pure at 2000 fps no trouble. i shoot 130 cast @1950fps out of my blackout using ww doing mag dumps with a binary trigger with absolutely no leading. ive pushed cast to 2900 in ars with no leading but accuracy wasnt great but some with more patients the me have shot that same bullet into 2moa at full power.

plus you can size with a cheap lee sizing die and dont need an expensive lubesizer or the expensive dies they take. all you need is a plastic container with a lid, some pc paint and something to cook them in. some use a toaster oven. i found a range free on the side of the road that had a cracked cook top. i do LOTS of them so instead of a plastic dish i use a frankfort arsenal cheap tumbler. it will do about 15lbs of bullets. i tumble them for 30 minutes with the paint throw them in the oven at 400 for 30 minutes while the next batch tumbles. if you want harder bullets just drop the cookie sheet of bullets in a bucket of water instead of air cooling then if you doing an all Dayer when the first batch is cooled you can size while you cook another batch.

honestly the only thing ill ever use my star for again is sizing pc bullets in odd sizes lee doest make and i have star dies for. ive been casting since 1972 and this is hands down the biggest gamechanger ive learned. dont worry i doubted it too and got in some pretty frisky arguments on the cast bullets forum but the first time i made a batch and shot them i was a believer and ive turned my buddys on to it and there believers too. by the way this isnt my first rodeo. i was a founding member of castbullet and have casted and taken game with 458mag.50ak.475 and 500 linebaughs, 480s and 454 and about anything else that can throw a cast bullet. before he died i sent john linebaugh bullets and the quinns from gunblast have shot them. as have many names you know at linebaugh seminars and was friends with the owners of a couple of the bigger commercial casters. dont let my low post count make you think im someone thats a rookie. id dare bet ive flung more lead down range and killed more game with cast bullets from squirrels and bunnies to bison and an 1800lb water buffalo. my name is Lloyd Smale and their is probably a couple on here that know me and will tell you theirs no bs here

Powder Coating doesn't abide with the old school ambiance I want to maintain with what I'm doing here. I've zero interest in powder coating bullets regardless of that system possibly being superior to the old means and methods of lubing. Not everything has to be modernized to work well.

Good to see you here Lloyd.

You pretty much lost me in the first paragraph when you mentioned mag dumps.

I've tried to cozy up to PC'ing, just not for me. I have way too much invested in a room full of casting gear, plus I haven't nearly begun to fully master the archaic art of bullet casting - even after 56 years of applying myself to it. I have no intention of upsetting my apple cart in a revolutionary way.

On top of that I have yet to meet anybody in the match shooting circles I run in who has found PC'ed bullets to be more accurate than conventional ones. Chief claim to fame is velocity gains and in lessened leading - neither trait necessarily contributing to ultimate accuracy.

I reckon PC'ing is fine for the hunter, for the guy who doesn't wish to uncover the secrets of the Old Masters and then beat them at their own game, for the fella who has a busy life and can't be bothered with experimentation, the guy who wants to shoot cast bullets in modern military-style autoloaders, or the man who likes his ammo to come in all colors of the rainbow. Not disparaging you, merely a tongue-in-cheek assessment of what I see happening around me.

as to accuracy with the same bullet and identical loads ive seen it go both ways. my buddy though who even shoots more than me says pc bullets have the edge. hes forgot more than anyone ive met knows and tells it like it is. as to casting the romantic bs to me is just that. im not going to cast over the campfire and i dont cast or for that matter load for fun. thats gone away years ago and hundreds of thousand bullets ago. i cast and load today so i can SHOOT. without it i couldnt afford to shoot like i do. my old body is getting beat up due to my service injuries and i just cant stand there for hours a day like i use to. so today i want efficiency not experience. i done plenty of experience for a lifetime.

i worked as a lineman for many years and for weeks on end id be up at 4am and out in the shop and crank out a 20lb pot before work. had a mount on the back of the truck that i could quickly mount one of my stars and sized them during lunch come home and one day load and the next shoot. now im retired and dont miss that one bit. id about as soon load pistol ammo on a single stage press as ladle cast and lube size. heck if i won the lotto id hire someone to do it and never pull another lever other then a safety. my bullets are od green or black. i sure as dont care about pretty colors. bottom line is id rather spend the time honing my shooting skill the bent over a pot. id bet my house if elmer kieth was alive hed be pc'ing bullets because people like him and glen Fryxell paco kelly and rob applegate were innovators. guys that brought the science into casting. at 67 ive got plenty of "ambience" without having to create it

Good for you.

Still won't be powder coating bullets because I already have everything I need to lube with my lubrisizer. Gotta love those that think investing more money into something that's already been adequately invested in, is a great and wonderful idea. There's already one of those jokers running around this forum.

Haven't had any issues getting speed or accuracy out of traditional lubed bullets.

I've ran them to 2,900 in a Hornet with 3 touching (and me throwing the other two out).

Just this past weekend my hunting buddy shot 3 deer with 250gr. cast softnosed I loaded out of his 35 Whelen; all past 200 yards, so the accuracy is there.

Granted a deer isn't hard to hit, but he has used them the last two years because they shot better than the 225 Barnes he used initially, hovering under an inch easliy.

These are not powder puff loads; they clock right at 2,500 fps. and get a similar dose of RL15 as a jacketed load.

Good stuff

Bottom line, to each his own. All to often in this man's world I've found that newer "better" things don't necessarily have to be chased after in order to attain "psyche comfort". Of course, I'm the guy who'd also rather knock around town in my 54 year old MG or shoot 20-30 slow paced breech-seated shots with a vintage single shot target rifle over the course of an entire range day than to jump into my late(er) model sports sedan or blaze away with an AR-15 (which is precisely why I sold the dammed thing).

I view casting, loading, tinkering at the loading bench, etc. not as a means to an end, rather it's more often than not the end in and of itself. I take the whole process of turning chunks of raw lead into little holes in the target as a gestalt thing - each step as interesting/fulfilling as the rest. When the mood isn't upon me I don't force myself to do any of it - to do otherwise runs the risk of resentment.

Today I cast a sackful of .30 rifle bullets plus a few hundred .32 pistol bullets, while listening to Beethoven. Beat he hell out of chasing the Christmas spirit in the stores and bars.

Impressive.

I've dinked around a bit in the upper velocity reaches with cast bullets, and once I learned the necessary protocols didn't find it to be that much of a challenge. Now, as I'm leaning into the other side of the 70 year old milestone, I'm quite content to let others chase that stuff. Working in the 600-900fps range with .32/.38/.45 handguns and 1100-1800 range with various caliber rifles suits my temperament. The bit of hunting I do anymore is easily handled by sedately moving cast bullets or, gasp!, jacketed stuff.

LBT Blue soft.

Yep, that's a good one.

Not messy to work with.

Except for the Beethoven (I'm partial to Bluegrass) that's how I look at all things gun and handloading. The process itself is the goal, the targets and meat put up are the icing on the cake.

And it's all therapeutic. Some of the best mind mending therapy in the world is spending months building a flintlock longrifle from a pile of parts and chunk of wood, casting up some roundballs, and churning up a cloud of Holy Black smoke with something you created and made work as intended.

This one casting project rifle especially is a 1958 made Marlin in 35 Rem. It wears an old period correct Weaver fixed 4X scope mounted on purpose in old style weaver strap rings, and just oozes of old school cool. How on earth could I not cast and lube in the same manner as was done when it was made? Somehow powder coating those 200 grain flatnose bullets just don't jive with the universe.

your all so much cooler than me . i guess we will leave at you cast and ill shoot. but like i said this aint my first rodeo and i long ago found there is NO advantage to doing it your way other them you dont want to buy a lb of pc that coats more bullets than 4 sticks of lube. or your shooting black powder. Cant afford a 20 dollar toaster oven at a yard sale?? im guessing most of you have one rifle one shotgun and maybe one handgun. because why spend money when those three get the job done honestly i figured on seeing more open minds and knowledge here.

I think if you want to shoot powder coated bullets, go for it. I have no problem with that. Why would anyone get upset if I choice to do a traditional lube? I don't need a lead bullet to travel at a jacketed bullet speed. If I need that, I'll shoot jacketed bullets. I personally fine most colors people coat with look like crap but it's your choice.
A number of the smaller caliber cartridges haven't been worked up yet but I'm getting there.

Yep, you got everyone pegged here.

One rifle, one shotgun.

Just because in all your years you've managed to make something more difficult than it really is, don't lump everyone into your category.

Theres nothing wrong with putting jackets, sabots, coatings and patches on lead bullets; they've been using different materials to do that for quite some time, you might have heard.

Even a guy with one rifle may have been open minded enough to figure that out.

Best of luck to you; it sounds like you have everything whipped and its best to enjoy it.

Heck, there's a category called BPCR on the forum.
You would blow their minds there....

I might add that when pointing a finger at "non-open minded people" there are three other fingers on that hand pointing back at yourself.

I guess we heathens needed salvation so a missionary was sent among us.

Winky, If you get bored, go to the Cast Bullet Association website, the match results are posted on there with score, rifle, powder, bullet and lube. If any powder coat bullets were used...I must have missed it.
I am glad you are happy with your colorful rainbow bullets, but when you come to a strangers door as an evangelist...sometimes the door will be shut in your face. Prefacing your opinions with a simple, 'here's how I prefer to do it' might open some doors for you...maybe.

im a member there why dont you ask there if i know what im talking about. i tried simply saying how i did it and was attacked and told my opinions are wrong. no big deal isnt like theres anything to learn here. not when you have to reference the knowlege on another web site.

dont even know what this means

thats ok guys im way our of place here with ambiance and Beethoven and grammar police. i think this is casting for liberal school teachers. bye now

ya they must be the super cool bunch here. ive been shooting black powder cartridge guns when most of you were loading you diaper.

No, it's more of a pretty well rounded group. Flintlocke nailed it when he said approach/presentation is key for initiating a polite exchange of ideas.

Was going to give you the benefit of doubt and respond accordingly, but with that last comment you sound exactly like another PIA member here.

This is my thread and I was asking about home brew traditional lube. I was not asking what may be better than traditional lube. Was not asking a thing about powder coating, not interested, not gonna do it.

If you have something to add about traditional lube, I'll be glad to hear it....if not, well, bye.

And that has what to do with the price of eggs? (And for the record I'll guess that I have a couple years on you, and also started down the rabbit hole of feeding antique/vintage guns with cast bullets during the early years of LBJ's administration.)

Speaking of liberal school teachers....


Of course it really doesn't matter how long you've been doing something if it wasn't correctly done in the first place (that's what my comment means).

Let's begin with answering, with your decades of experience, did you EVER make a bullet lube that worked well you (aside from powder coating)?
That would help the OP.

yup felix lube. look it up and you might learn something

for my last post on this forum of yuppys and full of guys who think their something if they shoot 500 rounds a year ill answer your question with the lube most applicable to the types ive seen here. WAIT WAIT WAIT KY JELL with a little brow coloring added.

If you have something to add about traditional lube, I'll be glad to hear it....if not, well, bye.

now i think ill put some Bach on the stereo and make one of those cocktails with a straw and sit down for 2 hours and make me 6 good bullets. NAH il take a couple ballistic cast molds cast both at the same time and listen to some pink Floyd or skynard. sad thing is with the time ive wasted on this yuppy forum a could have casted a couple hundred more bullets. Im sure one of you cupcakes will have their feelings hurt and run cry to a moderator and try to get me banned. ill never know because im not wasting 5 more seconds here WELL, BYE

Lol, look who has yet anotheraccount.

Well, I guess he told us what's what and who's who.

On the subject of lubes, while I'm not inclined to mess with home made stuff when so much cheap, effective, reliable commercially available stuff abounds as I think I mentioned before (I'll not go back and check), I am intrigued by wax wads for use under plain base cast bullets. I've acquired a Tupperware crate full of components to start mixing/experimenting - beeswax, castor oil, colloidal graphite, Japan wax, paraffin wax, etc. Armed with recipes from Niedner, Pope, Sharpe, Donaldson, Leopold, et al I shall see if something can be formulated that'll aid me. Additionally I have a couple ideas of my own, mainly centered around unicorn spit.

Last season, on a whim, I tried dental wax in a .32-40 High Wall target rifle and it worked really well right up until it didn't. That wax is stiff, 1/16" thick, and comes in small sheets. After de-re priming the case and re-charging, before insertion into the chamber behind the pre-seated bullet I would press the case mouth through the wax sheet to form a wax wad in its mouth. An immediate betterment of accuracy was noticed that continued for several 10 shot strings. Thinking I hit pay dirt I went merrily along until all of a sudden accuracy fell off the cliff. Cleaning the bore and chamber I found out why: there was a hard compacted build up of that wax in the throat and bore. Had to scrub like hell to remove it, and I swore off of dental wax. But my initial pleasure with it wasn't forgotten and drives me to investigate if the protocol of wax wads can be successfully employed. (I think I'll need to strike a fine balance between hard enough for rough handling and soft enough to not build up hard deposits in the bore.)

It's not a new idea. The movers and shakers in this game at the turn of the last century were gung-ho about it, Admittedly though more recent movers and shakers have disparaged it. I don't know, but my initial experience with the damned dental wax really got me thinking that there's something to it. (I swear accuracy went from 2" at 200yds immediately down to 1 1/2" - same bullets, same conditions, same everything - the only difference was the inclusion of the wax wad. And then of course when the wax build up got impacted the wheels fell off and 3-4" was the result.) It could be also that soft wax wads really shine in the world of black powder cartridge shooting (a known fact), mainly to keep powder fouling soft to allow continuous shooting without cleaning, and not really shine so much for smokeless shooting. We shall see.

I think I look at this like I look at a lot of other stuff. Sure, I can buy a good commercial lube, but if I don't know how to replicate it, or make a feasible substitute on my own, them I'm up the creek if the commercial stuff decides to ever not be readily available. Recent shortages in many other reloading components should teach a lot of lessons in that respect. Either stock up an insane amount of something to last a really long time, or be able to make your own. I lean towards both. Having a good stock pile (especially stuff I CAN'T make myself), and having the ability to make some stuff myself. Besides, the info I'm after here first and foremost is what gives me that shiney bore and good accuracy. Figured maybe some homebrew out there might work best.
I now have lots of resources to try different things both commercial, and the LONG list of home recipes over on castboolits. I would like to narrow it down to the best of the best though. I like to shoot and experiment, but I don't want to make it more than it needs to be.

less fuss/mess sizing/lubing than powder coating. Although buying a cast at a certain harness coated is cheaper and no press, lube, mold, furnace, etc.. is needed. I like casting.. so I'll go with press/size/lube coz, ya ready Ferret ?.... "I don't shoot much" doesn't mean I don't know how to load much.

I powdercoat all my bullets. 😝

Here's some good info from an avid BPCR Shooter:

You can purchase lube at Buffalo Arms.com

SPG is the most widely used and if you are in hot dry, SPG Tropical: Buffalo Arms & MVA
DGL is a very good lube: Buffalo Arms and Midway
SAGE Alox is a very good lube: Sage Outfitters.com

If you want to make your own, I suggest: Emmerts Improved It's easy, all ingredients you can get at the grocery store and it's the "go to" home made lube.

If you want the best book of recipes with comments on effectiveness plus, details about individual ingredients; Google Search for cblubes2016 by Ralph Schneider & Steve Hurst. It really is well worth finding and costs nothing to download.