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1. Reliability. Must go bang and repeat, and repeat without a hitch.

2. Well balanced so I can shoot well from field positions.

3. Lightweight- because I’m getting soft and hate lugging heavy rifles around.


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Originally Posted by 300_savage
Debate with a friend, who can't live with a big game rifle, deer and up, that won't group under an inch for 5 shots at 100 yards. He's spent a lot of money in that pursuit. I said that just decent grouping, perhaps defined as 1.5 " - 2" for 5 shots would work for me IF:

1. Handling qualities, balance and weight, were what I liked and the rifle fit me

2. Rifle holds zero reliably year to year, and for all shots of a minimum 5 shot string. No first cold shot fliers (most important) and no walking as it heats up for a magazine full of quick, aimed shots.

3. Reliable feeding, extraction, and ejection whether working the action slowly or quickly.

I think in today's world, criteria 2 and 3 are harder to find than it is to find a sub MOA rifle, and wouldn't get rid of a rifle that met those standards even if a sub 1" group seldom happened. It would be the first rifle I'd grab for an important hunt.

How about you? I'm talking a general big game rifle, not a specialized long range rig.

The 1.5-2" five shot group works for me in areas where my expected range is under 300 yards. None of my current favorites shoot that poorly but I had a .35 Whelen that was a very consistent 1.5-2" rifle. I gave it to a nephew on his way
to Alaska though.

Two areas I have had trouble in are reliable feeding and safety noise.

I have a very accurate .338 Win Mag. For any years I used it as much as my "06. A Winchester Model 70 Classic. It didn't always feed the second round. I changed springs, followers, floorplates etc. When it would happened it usually made aminor issue worse. I finally took it to a local gunsmith(Allison & Carey). When it returned, function was flawless. It was tthe first belted magnum I owned that would actually feed empty cases. Hetoldme all hedid was adjust thetiming.

As far as safety noise, I am referringto the noise spooking game whenI take off the safety. I had this problem with a tang safety Ruger 77 and a couple of Model 70's. I never did fully solve the problem with the Ruger so I sold it. The two Model 70's were used in lots of rain and got some rust inside. Taking the safety apart, cleaning and deburring it solved most of it.

As for your criteria number 2. I have never found a rifle that would meet them. I have had several rifles that held zero for may years and then moved.

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Good point. And as someone pointed out, a carry weight sporter that consistently shoots 1/2", with hunting loads, is a rare bird. And it may lack other important characteristics. A rifle I once had shot best with its favorite bullet very close to the lands and I loaded it that way, till I unchambered a loaded cartridge and left the bullet in the barrel. Thump of the butt dislodged it, but it taught me a lesson in reliable hunting loads.

You are right, there is no absolute zero, that's why we check 'em. But some rifles and scopes are pretty good...till something goes wrong. My .30-30, largely a walkabout gun but is a potential backup hunting rifle has aperture sights, and I trust them more than a scope. I don't have any bolt actions with irons anymore, so often throw the .30-30 and a box of shells under the seat as insurance.

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This has been a good thread to read. I can echo many of the opinions that are on here. Figure I might as well throw my 2 cents in.
#1 is reliability. It must fire when called upon. Just as critical of the chosen ammo as the rifle.
#2 Handling. All guns have their place. Bench guns and prairie guns make poor mountain hikers. Handling must be fluid. Esp if I'm on my feet still hunting.
#3 Practical Accuracy. Must meet the intended situation. Seen many deer whacked with 2 moa rifles. Killed a pile of deer with a 3 moa slug gun. Tiny groups are nice on paper, but more importantly, they inspire confidence, which builds trust.
#4. I prefer stainless rifles if I can't help it. I love deep bluing and wood as much as the next guy, but I have done much of my best hunting in the nastiest weather that having a stainless rifle for practical reasons outweigh looks. For stocks I prefer wood, or laminated wood. Carbon and kevlar are nice too. I hate....and I mean hate cheap tupperware stocks.


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Reliability.

Fit.

Damn good trigger of less than 3# and preferably close to 2# that breaks like glass w no creep.

A very good trigger makes a shot happen so much easier and makes hitting the intended spot easier.

Accuracy is super nice but at the ranges I hunt I could get by with a gun that would shoot a 2-3" group at 100 yards.


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Originally Posted by Ken_L
Typically when I go hunting I take one of my Kimbers because they are light, accurate and handle great for me. Hunting rifles for the most part are carried a lot and shot very seldomly at game.

+1
Agreed, with a 2.5 lb trigger.

Last edited by eaglemountainman; 11/08/23.

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Basically -

1. Cartridge that does the job I intend, launching good bullets
2. Bolt action
3. Light weight

So essentially a Kimber Montana in 7-08 is my choice.


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Originally Posted by Poconojack
Mojo

Everyone has some good thoughts on this thread. But this one, to me, might be the best.
I don’t have as many rifles as some on here but I have a couple, three, that seem to be “lucky”. Have taken multiple head of game and will get the job done.
I have a sporterized Krag that has spent quite a bit of time in a tree stand and I never shot a round at game. Have taken out my old tang safety Ruger out the very next time and shot a deer.
I’m pretty sure everyone has a rifle or two that seems to get the job done.

Mojo, luck, might be the number one answer.

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Someone earlier mentioned Mojo. Think you guys are on to something.

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Originally Posted by 300_savage
Someone earlier mentioned Mojo. Think you guys are on to something.

I have to agree with you on that. I have one rifle that everything I point it at the bullet hits. It doesn't seem to matter if I am shooting from an awkward position or having to take a quick shot it just works, I have 100% confidence in that rifle. Yet I have had its twin from the same maker, in the same caliber and model and grouped just as well, they were to all aspects identical but I never could shoot the other one as well as this one.

I remember reading something by Jack O'Connor about how rifles were like twin sisters - to all appearances they were identical but yet due to some subtle difference one would be more attractive than the other. It seems to be that way with rifles too, only with the rifle it is some slight difference in the way it handles or balances.

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Fit
Function
Balance

I neither want or need overly light. I ain't that old or decrepit yet and was never a desk bound weakling.

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Originally Posted by 300_savage
Someone earlier mentioned Mojo. Think you guys are on to something.
My BDL 6mm Remington is like that.


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Originally Posted by Blackheart
I neither want or need overly light.

I can agree with that. I like light but not too light for a packing around rifle. My buddy hunts with an ultralight and it is too light for my tastes.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Fit
Function
Balance

I neither want or need overly light. I ain't that old or decrepit yet and was never a desk bound weakling.
On the opposite end of the spectrum I no longer like to carry the 24 and 26" heavy barrels I didn't mind packing in my teens and 20s.

Sporter contour 20--24" and wouldn't mind if the 24" barrels were 22 other than a slight noise reduction.


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That I want to use it.

I have preferences and some requirements but there's lots of rifles that meet them, some more important on a rainy day, some more important when I'm hunting an ag field, lowlight, still hunting, long hike up the mountain, etc. With so many good options, the most important is usually that I want to use it that day.

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Number one is looks for me. You only carry them so much and shoot them way less than that. I could kill a lot of deer with a rusty single shot that shot a 4" group. But you have to look at them all the time. So a really cool looking rifle is more important than anything else to me. Some guys like the blued and walnut look, some black and SS. I'm a camo stock guy because they can look great and super practical.


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Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Fit
Function
Balance

I neither want or need overly light. I ain't that old or decrepit yet and was never a desk bound weakling.
On the opposite end of the spectrum I no longer like to carry the 24 and 26" heavy barrels I didn't mind packing in my teens and 20s.

Sporter contour 20--24" and wouldn't mind if the 24" barrels were 22 other than a slight noise reduction.
I've never liked a barrel longer than 22" on a hunting rifle. Owned one heavy barrel varmint rifle years ago. Quickly got sick of it and away it went. Won't own another.

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As PAbucktail wrote, it depends where you're hunting.

You wouldn't play a round of golf with one club, so why would you want to hunt with one rifle for all terrain and ranges?

When I hunt in tight cover, I prefer to use a fast handling short barreled pump or semi-auto that will cycle reliably and make at least 3 MOA groups.

When I hunt in open country, I prefer to use a bolt action with at least a 20" barrel that will reliably make at least MOA groups.

Cutting edge rifle accuracy is like manufacturing production accuracy, in that squeezing the last 5%, from 95% to 100%, probably costs more than getting from 0% to 95% did.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Fit
Function
Balance

I neither want or need overly light. I ain't that old or decrepit yet and was never a desk bound weakling.
On the opposite end of the spectrum I no longer like to carry the 24 and 26" heavy barrels I didn't mind packing in my teens and 20s.

Sporter contour 20--24" and wouldn't mind if the 24" barrels were 22 other than a slight noise reduction.
I've never liked a barrel longer than 22" on a hunting rifle. Owned one heavy barrel varmint rifle years ago. Quickly got sick of it and away it went. Won't own another.

I love 24" in a light contour barrel. It seems to handle right for me

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Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by 300_savage
Someone earlier mentioned Mojo. Think you guys are on to something.
My BDL 6mm Remington is like that.

Same here. Mine started life as an ADL but still got it. Love shooting it.


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