Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Important Qualities in a Hunting Rifle

Debate with a friend, who can't live with a big game rifle, deer and up, that won't group under an inch for 5 shots at 100 yards. He's spent a lot of money in that pursuit. I said that just decent grouping, perhaps defined as 1.5 " - 2" for 5 shots would work for me IF:

1. Handling qualities, balance and weight, were what I liked and the rifle fit me

2. Rifle holds zero reliably year to year, and for all shots of a minimum 5 shot string. No first cold shot fliers (most important) and no walking as it heats up for a magazine full of quick, aimed shots.

3. Reliable feeding, extraction, and ejection whether working the action slowly or quickly.

I think in today's world, criteria 2 and 3 are harder to find than it is to find a sub MOA rifle, and wouldn't get rid of a rifle that met those standards even if a sub 1" group seldom happened. It would be the first rifle I'd grab for an important hunt.

How about you? I'm talking a general big game rifle, not a specialized long range rig.

You lost me at 1.5-2" for 5 shots. I'm like your buddy and require better accuracy than you do. Lets talk about why your rifles are shooting like schidt..

And it starts. Ideally, you don't have to choose. But if you did....which is is more important?

Depends where you're hunting I suppose. For what most guys do and places they hunt that accuracy standard is just fine.

For me: Durable design, reliable function, accurate enough, perfect fit, and good balance.

The rifle that made me pose the question is the one my Dad owned, his only deer rifle. Savage 99 with a K4, dead nuts reliable. An uncle had its twin, same thing. Though accurate, neither was sub 1 inch...but they always worked.

…..and there you have it. The vast majority of “successful” hunters in my location (Pennsylvania woodlands) take deer at less than 100 yards the need for 1” or less groups is moot. If a rifle can keep the majority of bulllets in less than 2” or so you have a rifle that will consistently bring venison home. I, like many on this site - that are full fledged rifle looneys, strive for the utmost in accuracy for various reasons (and all are good reasons if they make you happy) but it is unnecessary for most hunting situations encountered here. Your other criteria are extremely important and probably (in my opinion) just as important as accuracy. My grandfather and several other relatives stacked hundreds of deer up over the years - they rarely missed and don’t really know if any of them ever sat at a bench and fretted over group size (at least in all the years I was around them I never saw them shoot from a bench - I was the only one that did that😄)! Most of them used Savage 99s, Remington 760s and various bolt actions mostly in 300 Savage and .30-06.

Penndog

Interesting points, Penndog. My most important criteria are reliability of function and consistent zero. Fit and balance, along with ease of carrying are also important.
I sent an accurate rifle down the road because it just didn't carry well in my hand. But I also like accurate rifles! When it all comes together in one package it's a keeper!

Over all the years that I have shot and shot competitively by far and away the most important feature was “handling” which is primarily fit and feel in my hands. The competitive shooting that I have done (and still do) is offhand and if the rifle doesn’t fit/feel right to me then it hasn’t mattered how accurate the rifle is (and many have been/are extremely accurate) my results suffer. On the other hand, rifles that aren’t quite as accurate but do fit/feel right to me ALWAYS end up scoring better. This of course is just me and what I’ve noticed in five decades of shooting “seriously”. I think that this can be extended to hunting rifles.


PennDog

That is very interesting! Appreciate your observations

First, must go BANG reliably.

Second, tie…great trigger and retention of zero for duration of hunt. Silly to be concerned with holding zero for years.

Third, the first two shots are what count zero wise. Silly to be concerned about numbers 3-5 “walking” a small amount.

Fourth, group size…the first two shots in about 1” but 1.5” will work.

RinB.....excellent point. One of the first things I check is whether that 1st shot from a cold, fouled barrel is in the group. No use not being sighted in for the first, and most likely only, shot. I once read of a fellow (was it Mule Deer?) who shot one shot at the same target every day for 5 or 10 days. I have time now, just retired, and may try that

I basically do the same drill. I'll take a shot and rack the rifle, play with another gun for 30-40 minutes and repeat.

I think it all boils down to trust.

Kevin Jay; nice one word summary!

Holding zero, reliable function, consistent accuracy all equates to trust that the tool will work when required. Accuracy requirements vary on the intended uses for the rifle.

I expect different results from my .303 Lee Enfield frankenrifle and my 6.5 PRC or 7-08 because both have different intended uses.

Yep. The question is "How do you get there?" The answer might be in the elk-rifle criteria that someone here laid out several years ago.


You could flex on the second point if you're not hunting elk, but otherwise I'd keep them all.


Okie John

Under 7.5 pounds scoped. 1/2" gun at 100. Needs to be able to repeatedly hit where its supposed to out to 500 if i do my part. Make mine anything on an 06 case with a rem 700 trued action.

Priorities:

1. Enjoy carrying it

This is obviously "first world problem"... but if I can afford not to carry an ugly or soulless rifle, I'm not going to carry an ugly or soulless rifle! Walnut, steel, hinged floor plate for me.

2. Must go bang every time I pull the trigger with a round chambered

Duh.

3. MOA for a 3 shot group

I'm not worried about five shot groups for a hunting rifle... if I'm taking that many shots at something, it's already my fault, not the rifle. If I really liked a specific rifle, I could live with 1.5" groups, but thankfully, it just hasn't been an issue. Even my early 90s JM 336 will do an inch at 100.

As far as accuracy is concerned, I'm the guy that escaped Planet 4 MOA. See: Escape from Planet 4 MOA
What I can tell you is that 4MOA works, but when you can get a rifle shooting around 1 MOA, everything becomes much easier.


In looking over the OP's list there is nothing I want to disagree with. There are some additions I would like to make:

1) The rifle should be easy to hold without touching a lot of metal. The colder it gets, the more important that gets.
2) The rifle must have a sling. I want to have both hands free if I'm not actively hunting.



My response to the OP's #2:



I agree with no first cold shot fliers. However, after the rifle is settled in for the year. I'm not worried about strings. I normally load 3 rounds in whatever I'm taking. If it goes beyond that, I know I need a timeout to rethink the situation. As far as year-to-year reliability, I have found most of those problems solved in the scope and rings and not the rifle itself.

Well said

Typically when I go hunting I take one of my Kimbers because they are light, accurate and handle great for me. Hunting rifles for the most part are carried a lot and shot very seldomly at game.

How it feels when shouldered and shooting
Accuracy
Reliability
Looks- not interested in some jackass hackjob rig.

Not important:

Mag box length
Twist rate

If it is chambered for a certain cartridge, I'm sure I can find a load that does well in it. Don't need extra heavy bullets seated long. If I want heavier I go larger in caliber

Your list sums it up pretty good! Though, expecting a hunting rifle of decent “carrying weight” to maintain a tight, rapid fire 5 shot group may be pretty difficult to find! Not impossible…..just difficult! However 1.5” to 2.0” is a pretty large group….unless you’re shooting @ 200 yards! If it were a 3 shot group……I’d expect that @ 300 yards! IMO memtb

It is nice when the whole rifle works as it should. Feeding, extracting, safety, etc.

I want my guns set up so they point well and shoot any and all shots where they’re supposed to go along with enough accuracy with the chosen bullets I wanna use at the time.

Sounds easy in theory but man, I’ve had some I thought should be great that have turned out to be not as great as I’d hoped.

Reliable, light, well balanced. I hunt the Woods so I don't get too worked up about group size. 150 yards is a long shot

Correct on the first two being there.,…. If used for hunting, shots 3, 4 5 are just chasing a bouncing animal and backed up by some prayers if they will hit or not

+1 Well said.

When the chips are down, due to the varied terrain that I hunt, my trust in a rifle increases when going from 1.5 MOA to 0.5 MOA. Any better than that is nice, but gets lost in the noise for my hunting purposes.

+1

Feel is overlooked a lot and should not. They should feel solid, not rattle and come up to the shoulder effortlessly . Your eyes should be on target every time. They should not have excessive extrusions that bite into your hand or arm when carrying them. They should be well balanced.

Should go bang every time like others have mentioned.

First shot should be on target .

Should be good looking from a mechanical and physical aspect.

Should be able to be stripped down as much as necessary with as little tools as possible.

No Blind Magazines.



Not important:

Mag box length

Twist rate

whether it has a hinged floor plate or a magazine

The trigger on my .300 Savage 99F is the reason that it is my #2 backup rifle. Yes, it carries better and points better than my custom 7mm-08 and is probably just as accurate, but that heavier trigger pull is more than I want for my #1 sitting rifle. None of you have mentioned terminal performance. Acceptable accuracy sure, but I want to be shooting the most effective bullet / cartridge that I can for what I'm hunting. My 7mm RM weighs less which was most important for my western hunting, but it is too much cartridge for whitetails in WI.

Some good to excellent points have been made. . . but also some assumptions. To hold zero in the long term, from year to year, isn't going to happen if a scope is used and much shooting is done annually - in a high-powered medium or big bore, especially if a variable scope is used. I could tell you how I know that, but it would be too long winded! But mostly, on this thread, "deer rifles" are usually being considered, not .338 to .458 magnums that can shake "things" apart pretty quickly if fired often in practice or at a range in the development of several "best loads".

My big game rifles start at .35 Whelen and go up from there to .458 Win Mag, and I shoot them regularly. They all have scopes and are used not only in hunting but in developing loads for research and publication. It's a rare scope indeed that will hold it's zero (or last a lifetime) from year to year without attention to fasterners, screws and bolts, etc! I have hunting loads for all of them, but I'd never go to "the hunting field" without checking their "zero".

The only scopes that have survived a 30-yr pounding from .45-70s hot loaded and then on a .458 Win Mag was a Burris Silver Safari fixed 4x by 21mm. It had a long eye-relief of 5.5" and finally died this year on my oldest son's .356 Winchester. It has a lifetime warrenty. I put one similar on a .458 that when sold remained on that rifle. Zero "for ever"? Not in my experience.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

This past September I went on a moose hunt in northern Alberta. While my guide and I were driving an old logging road the first day we stopped at an abandoned campsite and I found an onl aluminum frying pan. I thought that it would make a good sight-in target, so I propped it up with a bent willow stick. We backed off across a draw and my guide lasered the range at 169 yards.

I layed down and using my backpack for a rest, I sent a 180 gr Barnes TTSX handload from my .300 Weatherby at the frying pan. Absolutely no reaction from the frying pan. My guide said I should have seen my face as I thought that I had completely missed the pan. So I shot again, and again no reaction on the frying pan.

We then drove back the the frying pan and as we got closer, I was relieved to see the hits, and my guide was impressed. There was just a hairline of aluminum between the two hits.


 

1. Reliability first - an unreliable rifle is junk. Feed/ eject/hold zero/reasonable accuracy. "Reasonable accuracy" means that the rifle is capable of better accuracy than my ability to hold it on a target in hunting conditions. Cartridge & bullet adequate for all conditions in which the chosen game will be hunted.

2. Handling second - I very seldom hunt in a manner that allows shots from prone or bench style rests. Dynamic handling and a rifle that fits properly is more important to me. Getting an aimed shot off quickly from an improvised rest or even sometimes offhand is far more important to me than ultimate accuracy. Chasing ultimate accuracy in a hunting rifle is of no tangible benefit to me. It's a confidence builder, and gives one bragging rights, but doesn't actually help "me" put any more game in the freezer.

3. Good handling qualities includes "no need to fiddle" with stuff - I won't use scopes with more than 10x magnification, twisty turrets, thumbhole stocks, muzzle brakes ( require hearing protection), complicated reticles, difficult to manipulate safeties, or scopes with huge objectives and critical eye relief - or rifles with poor fitting stocks. Or too heavy or too light. All hinder a quick accurately aimed shot under normal field conditions. Clear, simple optics, a stock that fits like a fine shotgun, an excellent trigger, and a smooth action all help.

4. My rifles must be functional art to be most enjoyable. I enjoy figured walnut, finely finished steel, some tasteful engraving, and good fit and workmanship. I do use a couple synthetic stocked and corrosion proof rifles for use when hunting conditions are so bad that those qualities are helpful. See #1.

I hunt with a lot of different rifles but my most trusted rifle is a Ruger .300 Win Mag that would never meet the 5 shot requirements some have. My guess would be it wouldn't hold better then 1.5 MOA with five shots.....but the cold bore is always within 1/2" of where I expect it (tested many times at various temps) and the second shot is usually touching or at most within 1/2" of that. #3 tends to drop and go right...sometimes the 3rd is still sub-moa, sometimes 1-1.5 MOA. I stopped worrying about it when I realized I was shooting deer and elk and not prairie dogs, ran some numbers through a ballistic calculator and then actually started shooting the rifle at longish ranges (I know to some 500-800 yards doesn't even qualify as long range).



Hitting vital sized targets out to 600 yards consistently gives me all that I need to kill confidently inside my personal limit of 500 yards which I have never exceeded, nor wanted to, on a big game animal. These days I much prefer inside 300 on unwounded game.

I had an interesting discussion with a friend that builds long range rifles for a living and has a very long track record of long range kills (not my style...but that is his game). One of his first big game rifles he built for long range would not hold better than MAYBE 3/4 MOA, and he emphasized the MAYBE, which some on here would scoff at. He had 30+ one shot kills at 500-1000 yards with that rifle before retiring it. He guarantees 1/2 MOA out of his rifles and they do produce that...but the reality is that it probably isn't necessary for 95% of his customers. He felt having a very good drop card and learning to read the wind was way more important than benchrest accuracy.

I echo the sentiment that reliability is important and I certainly expect my guns to feed, fire, extract and eject properly.

As time goes on, I am more focused on the packability and shootability of the guns I am hunting seriously with, particularly in the mountains. I stopped carrying my .300 despite total confidence in it because the dang thing is heavy and longer then I like. My 18 year old son now carries it because he is younger, stronger and less concerned about 2 pounds and 2 extra inches than I am. I have changed stocks and scopes several times on my new preferred elk rifle (a 700 in .30 Gibbs) trying to get the right balance of weight, feel, eye relief and balance). I actually gave up a smidge of accuracy when I went to the rifles current stock (a McMillan KS stock that has a little more flex in the forend than the previous B&C stock) but it is lighter, fits me perfectly and actually seems to absorb recoil better then the heavier stock (which seems counterintuitive). I dropped to a 2.5-8x scope with a B&C reticle and found I had more than enough magnification to do what I need, the drop hashes work perfect without screwing around with dials and the weight and balance is great for me.



Some rifles you just want to pick up, put on your back and go hunt something. This is it for me.

Must shoot when I pull the trigger
Must hit where I aim with first shot. I couldn't give a schit what a 5 shot group looks like. I'm shooting animals, not paper.
Fit.
Weight/Carry

Very cool and nice shooting!

I'm not sure if I am in the majority or minority but I find that my likes in rifles for my hunting are still evolving even at 70 years old. Of course, accuracy is possibly my most important aspect like most here and I have that covered between rifles I carry and the handloads I work up for all of them. Under MOA is important to me and any rifle I can't get to that point goes down the road pretty quickly. Half of MOA is preferable, but not totally necessary. However, shooting from field positions doesn't always equate to benchrest accuracy, so the rifle must be comfortable to handle when shooting off hand, from an improvised rest, or using my Harris bipods. I have found not all rifles work out in all these scenarios- usually at the worst possible times.

What I have found is that I don't mind carrying a little extra weight if the rifle handles well for me as long as the sling is comfortable for the long walks between hunting spots or at the end of a long day chasing game. I also like a rifle that is attractive and looks like it has had some skill put into its manufacture and assembly. My personal built customs are my favorites even if they aren't as well done as a master gunsmith and stock maker may put them together. As long as they are absolutely reliable I am a happy camper.

One area I have been in a quandary lately has been my scopes. I have been playing musical scopes lately to find just the right scope with the right range of power, reticle, and eye relief for what I like in a hunting tool but I'm not quite there yet. I had put an Arken 6-24 SH4 on my 26 Nosler last year to try out and it worked fine from the bench, but using it for deer hunting this year it just wasn't working out. The reticle is great, the glass is clear, but the eye relief turned out to be a bit tight even on lower powers so the search continues. I do have a 4-16 Arken that is just about perfect for my uses that will get switched over to this rifle before next year's hunt but only time will tell if that ends up being my last choice.

Thanks all for the responses! The search for the perfect rifle that "has it all" is a lifetime pursuit it seems. I was remembering when I was young, and relatively broke, and was never satisfied with the few firearms I had. I'm still searching for the holy grail, and now realize that is what keeps this hobby challenging and fun.

1. Decent 3 lb trigger
2. Walnut stock
3. 1.5" 3 shot group at 100yds.
Everything else is gravy.

Mojo

Mojo....good answer. Someone else said trust, perhaps the same thing.

Lol accuracy snobs are like old duck club boomers- there no real reason for their BS.

If you want to spend time getting a gun to shoot great sub-MOA groups then that’s great. I’ve done the same. It has no practical benefit for a rifle that’s primarily used for big game hunting.

The environments are variable, the situations are variable; and least of all, the target is dynamic AND variable.

It comes down to this- you can kill game or you can’t. A 1/2” group every time won’t make a bit of difference because that guy with an old ‘06 shooting 1”-2” groups will do just as well as you.

1. Reliability. Must go bang and repeat, and repeat without a hitch.

2. Well balanced so I can shoot well from field positions.

3. Lightweight- because I’m getting soft and hate lugging heavy rifles around.

The 1.5-2" five shot group works for me in areas where my expected range is under 300 yards. None of my current favorites shoot that poorly but I had a .35 Whelen that was a very consistent 1.5-2" rifle. I gave it to a nephew on his way
to Alaska though.

Two areas I have had trouble in are reliable feeding and safety noise.

I have a very accurate .338 Win Mag. For any years I used it as much as my "06. A Winchester Model 70 Classic. It didn't always feed the second round. I changed springs, followers, floorplates etc. When it would happened it usually made aminor issue worse. I finally took it to a local gunsmith(Allison & Carey). When it returned, function was flawless. It was tthe first belted magnum I owned that would actually feed empty cases. Hetoldme all hedid was adjust thetiming.

As far as safety noise, I am referringto the noise spooking game whenI take off the safety. I had this problem with a tang safety Ruger 77 and a couple of Model 70's. I never did fully solve the problem with the Ruger so I sold it. The two Model 70's were used in lots of rain and got some rust inside. Taking the safety apart, cleaning and deburring it solved most of it.

As for your criteria number 2. I have never found a rifle that would meet them. I have had several rifles that held zero for may years and then moved.

Good point. And as someone pointed out, a carry weight sporter that consistently shoots 1/2", with hunting loads, is a rare bird. And it may lack other important characteristics. A rifle I once had shot best with its favorite bullet very close to the lands and I loaded it that way, till I unchambered a loaded cartridge and left the bullet in the barrel. Thump of the butt dislodged it, but it taught me a lesson in reliable hunting loads.

You are right, there is no absolute zero, that's why we check 'em. But some rifles and scopes are pretty good...till something goes wrong. My .30-30, largely a walkabout gun but is a potential backup hunting rifle has aperture sights, and I trust them more than a scope. I don't have any bolt actions with irons anymore, so often throw the .30-30 and a box of shells under the seat as insurance.

This has been a good thread to read. I can echo many of the opinions that are on here. Figure I might as well throw my 2 cents in.
#1 is reliability. It must fire when called upon. Just as critical of the chosen ammo as the rifle.
#2 Handling. All guns have their place. Bench guns and prairie guns make poor mountain hikers. Handling must be fluid. Esp if I'm on my feet still hunting.
#3 Practical Accuracy. Must meet the intended situation. Seen many deer whacked with 2 moa rifles. Killed a pile of deer with a 3 moa slug gun. Tiny groups are nice on paper, but more importantly, they inspire confidence, which builds trust.
#4. I prefer stainless rifles if I can't help it. I love deep bluing and wood as much as the next guy, but I have done much of my best hunting in the nastiest weather that having a stainless rifle for practical reasons outweigh looks. For stocks I prefer wood, or laminated wood. Carbon and kevlar are nice too. I hate....and I mean hate cheap tupperware stocks.

Reliability.

Fit.

Damn good trigger of less than 3# and preferably close to 2# that breaks like glass w no creep.

A very good trigger makes a shot happen so much easier and makes hitting the intended spot easier.

Accuracy is super nice but at the ranges I hunt I could get by with a gun that would shoot a 2-3" group at 100 yards.

+1
Agreed, with a 2.5 lb trigger.

Basically -

1. Cartridge that does the job I intend, launching good bullets
2. Bolt action
3. Light weight

So essentially a Kimber Montana in 7-08 is my choice.

Everyone has some good thoughts on this thread. But this one, to me, might be the best.
I don’t have as many rifles as some on here but I have a couple, three, that seem to be “lucky”. Have taken multiple head of game and will get the job done.
I have a sporterized Krag that has spent quite a bit of time in a tree stand and I never shot a round at game. Have taken out my old tang safety Ruger out the very next time and shot a deer.
I’m pretty sure everyone has a rifle or two that seems to get the job done.

Mojo, luck, might be the number one answer.

Someone earlier mentioned Mojo. Think you guys are on to something.

I have to agree with you on that. I have one rifle that everything I point it at the bullet hits. It doesn't seem to matter if I am shooting from an awkward position or having to take a quick shot it just works, I have 100% confidence in that rifle. Yet I have had its twin from the same maker, in the same caliber and model and grouped just as well, they were to all aspects identical but I never could shoot the other one as well as this one.

I remember reading something by Jack O'Connor about how rifles were like twin sisters - to all appearances they were identical but yet due to some subtle difference one would be more attractive than the other. It seems to be that way with rifles too, only with the rifle it is some slight difference in the way it handles or balances.

drover

Fit
Function
Balance

I neither want or need overly light. I ain't that old or decrepit yet and was never a desk bound weakling.

My BDL 6mm Remington is like that.

I can agree with that. I like light but not too light for a packing around rifle. My buddy hunts with an ultralight and it is too light for my tastes.

On the opposite end of the spectrum I no longer like to carry the 24 and 26" heavy barrels I didn't mind packing in my teens and 20s.

Sporter contour 20--24" and wouldn't mind if the 24" barrels were 22 other than a slight noise reduction.

That I want to use it.

I have preferences and some requirements but there's lots of rifles that meet them, some more important on a rainy day, some more important when I'm hunting an ag field, lowlight, still hunting, long hike up the mountain, etc. With so many good options, the most important is usually that I want to use it that day.

Number one is looks for me. You only carry them so much and shoot them way less than that. I could kill a lot of deer with a rusty single shot that shot a 4" group. But you have to look at them all the time. So a really cool looking rifle is more important than anything else to me. Some guys like the blued and walnut look, some black and SS. I'm a camo stock guy because they can look great and super practical.

I've never liked a barrel longer than 22" on a hunting rifle. Owned one heavy barrel varmint rifle years ago. Quickly got sick of it and away it went. Won't own another.

As PAbucktail wrote, it depends where you're hunting.

You wouldn't play a round of golf with one club, so why would you want to hunt with one rifle for all terrain and ranges?

When I hunt in tight cover, I prefer to use a fast handling short barreled pump or semi-auto that will cycle reliably and make at least 3 MOA groups.

When I hunt in open country, I prefer to use a bolt action with at least a 20" barrel that will reliably make at least MOA groups.

Cutting edge rifle accuracy is like manufacturing production accuracy, in that squeezing the last 5%, from 95% to 100%, probably costs more than getting from 0% to 95% did.

I love 24" in a light contour barrel. It seems to handle right for me

Same here. Mine started life as an ADL but still got it. Love shooting it.

The only rifles I shoot groups with, from a benchrest, are my BR and "F" class rifles. The hunting rifles, I shoot off my elbows and like to stay within a couple inches at 110 yds (what my range is). At three hundred meters, I can always hit a gallon milk jug from prone, almost always hit from unsupported sitting (90%), and manage about 50% hits offhand. I consider this good enough to hunt. I may have some 1/2 moa hunting rifles, but I don't know or care. Back when I used to go to turkey shoots for hunting rifles, I worried about how well they shot. Today, if I can hit the milk jug, I can hit any big game animal I'm going to be hunting, at any range at which I'll be shooting.
I want the rifle to be nice to carry, I want to be absolutely certain it will function. GD

Goid perspective from a bench rest shooter. Those gallon milk jugs make great practical targets!

Great thread...My preferred standards are:

-Reliability (prefer mauser control round feed)
-Accuracy usually around 1"
-Fit ie. shoulders and points well
-Looks, prefer classic looking rifles
-internal mag w/floor plate.
-weight (not to light) prefer 8-9lbs all rigged out. Scoped, with sling, and ammo holder w/ rounds on the stock.
-good adjustable trigger- prefer no creep.
-iron sights for back up
-optic 2-7X, 3-9X, straight 6- Not very caught up on a set standard.
-all around cartridge ready to handle deer, black bear, moose, elk and etc...6.5x55, 270 win, 7x57/7x64, 30-06, 8x57, 8mm-06, 9.3x62

In saying I have many rifles that fall out of that line and I still use them with success.

Looks like the rifle in the pic checks all the boxes.

To which I'd add not just where you are hunting but how you are hunting and what you are hunting.

For example, if you are hunting from a stand, or for that matter culling from a vehicle under a spotlight, weight doesn't matter, and more is probably a good thing for steadiness. Hunting in the mountains or thick cover, it is much less desirable IMHO, and personally I like a light rifle - you do need to learn how to shoot it well though, as technique is more important when you have less weight to dampen tremor.

If I'm culling pigs on foot, especially in cover, I want a rifle which is not just light and comes to the shoulder quickly, but which cycles smoothly and reliably, and which I can readily stuff more rounds into without looking. Accuracy is a nice to have, but for shooting pigs at the gallop at 100 yards or less it isn't the most important quality. For deer, which I'll usually shoot one at a time, the quick reloading is not really a factor, though I still like the rifle to be light for walking them up in the conditions I usually hunt them, so I may even use a light little drilling or a light little single-shot that I have.

I have several rifles which will do a good deal better than 1 moa for 5 rounds. However I also have rifles which wont, but make up for it with other qualities that suit them for their purpose. For example, I have a double rifle in 9.3x74R, which will group 4 rounds (2 from each barrel) into about 2.5 moa. However it handles well, is compact for the barrel length, and puts two rounds downrange in the blink of an eye. I can also drop two more into the breech in short order. For big critters like buffalo in the paperbark or sambar in among the blackberries and lantana the accuracy is more than good enough. I wouldn't use it for hunting goats in the mountains though, or on the open plains either, for that matter.

Horses for courses.

i hunt close cover deer, ie. thorn thickets, mountain laurel, brush and such. i have used bolt, lever, pump, semi, and single shots, from 22-250AI all the way up 45-70.

the handling, balance and weight go from good to great. every rifle i have or had holds a zero. the feeding, extraction and ejection are great.

even tho i handload and have sub inch rifles, i had a change of mind on sub minute rifles. as long as i can go (open sights) 3 to 4" at 100 yards (5 shots) or scoped, 2-3" at 100 yards (5 shots), it is good to go. i used be one of those guys who said anything over a 1" at 100 (5 shots), then get rid of it. i don't do competitive shooting, i do it for fun. the best group i ever did was .173" at 100 yards (5 shots/bench) in a TC Encore with a 23" MGM barrel in 20 Vartarg with 32gr Hornady Vmax and Reloder 7.

anyway, my pick for a hunting rifle is a 1972 Winchester m94 with a William FP aperture sight in 35/30-30.

200gr RCBS FN GC with 2400/tuft if Dacron going 1726fps. i was sighting it in with 2 shots at 100 yards.


in the past 5 years (last year i didn't hunt, i was recovering from a heart cath surgery), it has killed three doe and one 4pt. i had the m94 in 30-30 since i was 14yo. then 6 or 7 years ago, i sent the m94 to JES Reboring and he did a wonderful job on it. 1 week to mail it. 1 week with JES. 1 week to mail it back to me.


i have a #2 pick and that is a 1936 Husqvarna m46 in 9.3x57 with 275gr WFN GC and IMR4895 going roughly 1800+/-fps.





i have killed 6 or 7 deer with it. its lightweight, an excellent stoned trigger and a Dayton Traister striker spring and cocking piece (makes it cock on open). also, my gunsmith D&T for a 2-7x Leopold.

It's gotta work.
Otherwise its a club.


Reliably hold zero, little groups off target ain't Schmidt.


I'm not a stand hunter, it's sure nice if it's comfortable to handle and quick on target.


Good accuracy is last for me.

I expect MOA, and am not happy with less.
But I'm shooting deer under 200 yards(usually).
That doesn't require much precision.







I'd bet most big game is killed by guys who have either never shot a 5 shot group, or else haven't shot one in years.

First and foremost...I have to enjoy using it.

Exactly. It has to be MY rifle to start with. Then dependability, then trigger, lastly, be at least as accurate as I am. 99% of rifles can outshoot me so the accuracy is a moot point.

I'm like most I guess. My rifle has to be dependable and safe foremost, but I want to be able to trust its accuracy. That means to shoot my favorite loads under 1 1/4 inches at 100 yards with enough groups under an inch to keep me interested. I don't need it to be more accurate than that...I want it to be butter smooth in feeding, easy handling and light enough that I don't mind carrying it. To me this all adds up to my Husqvarna Husky in 30/06. The fact that it is very easy for me to look at, having a stock with heavy fiddleback figure, is the final plus that will ensure that my sons will end up deciding who the next owner will be.

I choose older model 70's, pre 64 or SS classics, open trigger design, featherweight barrel contour with the factory wood stock or a quality after market synthetic stock,, weighing in about 8 lbs. scoped.

So this picture troubles me a lot. That looks to me to be a wood stock but I know some synthetic stocks can mimic wood pretty good. I feel that the melted snow will find its way into the rifle and cause bad things to happen, such as rust and ice forming which can do damage in other ways. Am I looking at this wrong?

I can't speak for 8mm, but if the stockside metal has been oiled properly, and the stock sealed, I see no problem. My stainless/synthetic rifles get snow and ice covered all the time. Blued steel and wood doesn't change anything, it just requires a little extra prep and attention, and actually stainless can be a deceptive trap lulling one in to a false sense of security.

You've either been trained to take care of a weapon, or not. In which case you can make youtube videos abusing rifles...

Do not be troubled, this is just a reliable rifle doing reliable rifle things. Any military bolt action or sporter derived from such will be fine. Any old Model 70 or Ruger 77 will be fine. Things like Remingtons, Kimbers, Ruger Americans, Tikkas, and so on may or may not be okay here. Generally, coming back to a warm place to dry out and get wiped down will allow any rifle to handle stuff like this just fine. Where things start to go sideways is doing stuff like this and making the rifle live in a tent or a foxhole the whole time.

I have one more criteria: Unless you can be positively assured that you will not get a zero change during inclement weather with a/your wooded stock…..I do not want a wooden stock on my hunting rifle!

I’ll even add a caveat to that! I do not want a “floated” barrel in my synthetic stock on my hunting rifle. Debris (water, dirt, ect.) can get into the barrel channel, creating a pressure/contact point and causing a zero shift or open-up group size by changing barrel harmonics. Water in the channel is potentially very bad in cold climates……freezing water can swell and definitely create a contact or pressure point! Just my paranoid opinion! 😉 memtb

Haven't had any issues hunting is such weather. When I get back to camp/home I give the rifles a good wipe down/dried. Rifle to this day is in good+ condition after many years of hard use. I treat my rifles very good and don't neglect maintenance/oiling. Treat them well and they won't fail you.

This is my preferred prescription. I'll take one in 270win or 30-06.

I pretty much agree with you, but I'd add "versatility" and by that I mean you should be able to shoot it more than just offhand or off a bench. You should be able to shoot it from sitting too. If the rifle can be shot from standing and from sitting, you can do anything with it. Scope placement is the biggest factor in this.