Home Forums Reloading Shotshells - TSS and Unleaded Bismuth and AA hulls and other complaints

Why no data out there for loading Bismuth with Win AA HS hulls?

I started looking into finding components for loading 12 and 20 gauge quail loads. What an exercise in frustration. Data and available components are very hard to come by. A lot of data requires wads that are pretty much unobtainable, like SP20s.

Reasons for bismuth.
#1 Here in California, (home of the fruits and nuts), requires non-lead ammo, even for shot.
#2 Like other states, California requires a background check when buying ammo. I have a clean record, but am refusing a background check from these bastards.

FWIW, I used the 12 ga AA data that I used for 1 3/8 oz lead many years ago, and substituted 1 1/4 oz bismuth which is approximately the same volume as 1 3/8 oz lead. I did not increase the powder charge, so I was sure to be safe.

It patterns well and I killed ducks with it yesterday.

405wcf

Depending on your load size it is easier to find wads larger than 1 1/8 lead wads for straight wall hulls.

For loading steel, take a look at Ballistic Products.
1) You may have to buy one of their loading manuals
2) You may have to change hulls

Good advice!

The booklet Tom Roster's Advanced Lead & Bismuth Handloading Manual is good. Hodgdon on their data center has bismuth loads. I've loaded 1 3/8 oz and when get around to picking up some wads, I'll do some 1 1/8 for grouse.

I asked that same question and reply I got was you can load bismuth volume for lead volume. E.G. 1 1/8 oz lead bushing gives a 1 oz bismuth. It safe if you keep your powder the same.

I forgot to add I use AA hulls.

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful, wasn't sure about the Roster's book so I'll order. (Been Nilgail hunting down in Texas and just catching back up on this thread).

I've got the 12ga AA hulls and Claybuster F1114 wads, Win 209 primers, #6 Bismuth shot. This is for quail and chukar.

I intend to load 1 1/8 oz rounds with the above components. I have Greendot, Universal, Blluedot, Longshot, WST. Trying to fund a suitable powder range for the listed powders.

I will be weighting and loading each individual amount of bismuth shot manually, so I'm not concerned about the bushing size.

Any help is appreciated.

In Roster's booklet there are Longshot loads using that very same wad. But his loads are buffered.

Thanks, I'll order it.

Buffering 6 shot? Hmm, this should be interesting.

I call them hand-crafted.

Actually he mentions that it's perfectly acceptable to load his recipes without buffer. He makes the caveat that by omitting buffer you won't see as good of a pattern in comparison to having it. It's all there in his booklet, and I've loaded his recipes with and without buffer.

^^^This.

Omitting buffer will change pattern density (usually for the worse at distance and maybe better at closer ranges), DECREASE the pressure, sometimes INCREASE velocity (usually marginally), and shorten height of wad/shot column (and thus may affect crimp quality if no adjustments are made).

I got Roster's book yesterday and read the same as below for buffer and non-buffer. I think I will buffer the loads. Roster says patterns are better with buffer. Looks like I'm all set for 12 gauge reloading. Next comes 20 ga and I'll need a new reloading press. Looked online for another MEC and couldn't believe the prices! Holy Smokes. Looks like I'll have to weigh shot separately and pour in manually too.

Now you see the joke about handcrafted.

Buffer material increases pressure. Use a product made for shot buffering and not a non-compressible material like flour.
Ballistic Products sells shot buffer.
I would not add buffer to a load that does not call for it.

Only use the buffer listed is what Tom Roster said, PSB. Precision Reloading sells it. I emailed him and asked him, because I had bought the Ballistic Products ITX buffer and used it . These loads run close to Max, so you can't screw around. Now I have the displeasure of prying 23 of them open and separating the buffer and bismuth in the 1 3/8oz #4 load. I've already done couple.

Like downwind said, the load does call for buffer, but only a specific type of buffer, (PSB). No substitutions. Roster also said that you may NOT use buffer if you choose, but patterns will suffer and will increase in velocity. These look like pretty low pressure loads in his manual.

Roster is VERY specific as to his loads. Requires no deviation from his recipes. Calls for following his recipes exactly with no substitutions. I read his manual cover to cover. With the lack of reloading materials available and Remington ammo division going bankrupt and shutting down for 3 years, It takes a bit of research putting components together from what you can find.

Whew, $247.00 for a 20 gauge MEC 600 jr!

And yes, handcrafted is a very good description of putting these loads together. Buffer, filler card, manually load the Bismuth, get the right crimp But it's worth it in the long run. I refuse to pay for and be violated by a background check to buy ammunition here in California even though I have a clear record.

I'm not sure about being low pressure, 12gauge max is only around 12,000psi.

From the first, when I was left a shotgun, I knew I would be reloading . The shotgun wasn't steel friendly and bismuth in a 2 3/4" shell isn't available in Canada. I paid $100 for a used 12gauge 600jr and another hundred in parts to bring it up to current, plus shipping a couple of times.. A loading rack and auto primer feed are really nice to have. So your pain hasn't ended. Rotometals was having an end of the year sale, I bought 10# of # 6. More bank account pain.

I'm going to be using Roster's load #63 for 20 ga. 1200 FPS @ 10,000 PSI. I'm geared up for 12 ga since I have another MEC and a Ponsness Warren in 12 ga, plus I load quite extensively for several rifles. So, I've got most of the stuff I need. It's just a bitch having to go non-lead for shotguns, at least for upland game. I feel this will start to spread across the USA in the coming years. NYS already pushing non-lead for rifles. It's a great way to stick it to the hunters and gun enthusiasts and probably does little for the environment.

I'm going to get flack over this, but...I did a shutdown in the worlds largest lead/zinc smelter, while I had always worked around liquid and solid lead, nothing prepared me for the level of personal protection that was required. Ebola suits, duct taped air tight with HD respirators. No company goes to those levels unless they had to.Simply too costly suiting up. If the lead levels in your weekly blood tests came up, you were fired. Better to lay you off than pay for some future compensation. A sharp but ruthless business practice .They could do that as we were employed by the contractor. After That, my attitude was " I'm not stupid enough to eat lead." As for steel, Mule Deer said he hated biting into steel. I use lead for trap . I don't eat clays.

No flack intended here. Has there ever been noted dangerous levels of lead detected in people eating game birds? All the lead bans are centered around wildlife eating game remains left in the field, or ducks eating lead from the bottom of wetlands, lakes, streams, etc.

I don't bitch too much about using non-lead for big game since I've seen the proof of lead left behind in meat. Plus, the copper bullets work so well. Recover a bullet and weigh it, that'll tell you how much lead in left in the meat.

I've never bitten into a pellet (and I've eaten my share of game birds), but I have had pellets fall out into my dinner plate.

But I get it.

A thought, and one you'll never hear from any government agency. You get too much lead and the lead goes out of your pencil. A fellow millwright told me about that one. It took a year for his levels to come down.

I grew up on a delta but I never was interested in waterfowl hunting. Standing up to my @$$ in mud with sleet driving into my face never interested me. I know I'm a wimp. After wildfires burned out a couple of places we hunted deer, my partner suggested an area next to the border. There are turkeys as well, he said. Well no, they closed a week before. But I looked on that prairie duck gun that I was left with renewed interest.