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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Mine liked 175s and 4895 for the powder...hint.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,264
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,264 |
I wish there was a food and cooking sub forum. Sigh Can a shorty get a sub-forum for thoughts and prayers?
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,619 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,619 Likes: 15 |
I wish there was a food and cooking sub forum. Sigh Can a shorty get a sub-forum for thoughts and prayers? There was a religious sub-forum for a short while, but they kept calling for crusades on each other and Bin shîtcanned it.
MAGA
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
. Powder-Powder Charge-Bullet, first, OAL last. Probably the simplest thing to do with this lot of loaded ammo is 5 targets, shooting one bullet from each load, checking for pressure signs, then fire the (safe) rest for group? Yeah that's the right way to do it, but the 7x57 is rated at 51K MAP in psi. It is highly doubtful you will see any pressure signs in a modern Bolt action rifle at pressures less than 60K, more like 70K. I myself wouldn't waist a whole lot of time, bullets and powder shooting low presser anemic 51K book loads.
Last edited by steve4102; 11/28/23.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,333 Likes: 32
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,333 Likes: 32 |
What was it stick always typed?
Kiss lands; rockon, or something.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,165
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,165 |
This is the best advice here. Barrels from that era, especially Winchesters, were often shiit. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do with handloading, it's just not going to shoot. I found out with a Ruger 7mm rem mag from that era that it's better to cut your losses early. I ran hundreds of dollars in reloading supplies through that rifle trying to get it to shoot less than 3 MOA and it just wasn't happening, it took a new barrel to fix it.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,273 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,273 Likes: 5 |
I’ve always made a dummy round over length to kiss the lands and back it up a notch and go from there It sounds like the throat on that barrel is reallllllllly long. Maybe it's time to set it back a bit ?? kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I was hoping Kenneth came back with some more reloading advice.
LOL
Stupid fugk can't even light a grill.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,575 Likes: 2 |
I was hoping Kenneth came back with some more reloading advice.
LOL
Stupid fugk can't even light a grill. Your advice on the chrono was worthy, But completely missed the point on the issues with factory ammo, You’re just moody ‘cause the Bears still suck.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,960
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,960 |
do not start jump in the middle of possible distances! Go to max magazine length. then only way you have to go is further in the case. You are leaving .165.
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,365 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,365 Likes: 1 |
If magazine length is 3.165”, that is the first governing factor of your COAL. The other factor for COAL is your cartridge into the rifle lands.
Items needed for COAL to lands: cleaning rod, tape, chosen bullet, small dia. dowel or similar at 6”-8” long, micrometer, loading press, 7x57 brass.
Step 1 - Make sure you have an empty chamber.
Step 2 - Close bolt, stand rifle up, drop cleaning rod, wrap tape around rod at the end of the barrel. That is the end of barrel measurement now represented on your rod from a closed bolt.
Step 3 - Take bolt out, turn barrel upside down, drop bullet straight into the lands, take dowel and place into bullet base, turn back with barrel upward while holding dowel into bullet base pressed into lands, drop rod back in and place tape on rod at top of barrel again, same as done previous.
Step 4 - Get micrometer and measure from bottom of bullet tape to bottom of bolt tape, that is your COAL into the lands.
Step 5 - From here your COAL is governed by your own endeavors with the exception of magazine length allowance.
Step 6 - Make a dummy cartridge with bullet and case only about 0.050” off the lands based on your COAL to lands. See how it cycles from magazine to chamber and ejection.
It’s up to you to decide your desired accuracy. This is where dedicated time and use of different powders and bullet seating with loads occurs. If you want to go 0.030” or less off the lands or go opposite direction greater than 0.050” it’s all in tedious trials depending on your expectations. Yes, a chronograph is a much needed component to get to an exacting understanding of performance and to complete the overall task.
You’re going at it based on your OP as a cart before the horse. Kiss lands finding COAL is the starting point before any other application is initiated. Only one man’s opinion.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,660 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,660 Likes: 1 |
Loads that works in a 7-08 usually work well in 7x57's.
So until you can get a handle on whether or not the barrel is just not good, I'd suggest that you try 140 grain bullets (Nosler BT) & Varget at 42 grains as it's almost always an accurate powder in any decent barrel & a suitable loading for whatever cartridge it's suitable for.
Also RL-15 at 42 gr or H-4350 at 46 gr.
And as for a starting seating depth, .020 - .030" off the lands, almost never don't work............may not be optimum for a given gun, but is a rational starting point for a given bullet / powder until you can get a clue.
If none of those 3 powders & bullet can do <1.5", then it's highly likely that you have a crappy barrel.
If you don't have 140 gr bullets available, then use 120's or 150's & adjust powder accordingly; leave the 160 & 175's alone until you find something that will work or not with the lighter bullets. Then RL-22 or IMR-4831 is your friend.
No sense in pouring $$$ down a rat hole with a bad barrel.
Your money, your time but once the horse is dead, continuing to beat it won't revive it.
MM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3 |
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 701 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 701 Likes: 1 |
I didn’t read the entire thread but I’d scope the barrel or have it scored. If rifling is good and the throat not eroded. Have the barrel set back and see how it shoots
Thanks, Billy
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,361 Likes: 10 |
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,109 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,109 Likes: 1 |
I have a M70XTR fwt 7X57 (early1985), with a long throat. Doesn't shoot any factory very well (should do better!), tho the 175 RN gave the best group. I tried different powder loads of IMR 4350 to listed OAL, no improvement in accuracy using primed new Winchester brass that came with the rifle. I figure the jump to lands per the 175 indication is part of the problem, so reloads are the way I'm going. I am going to try some just purchased 3031 per Seafire's posts, and load them out beyond listed 3.000 OAL but not beyond bullet diameter seating depth. No prob - mag length is 3.165, and some I've just done out to lands feed fine. I have loaded the remaining new, primed Win brass, 5 ea. from 35 gr to 40, 1 grain increments. OAL is .002 to .007 from lands depending on tip deformation, I guess, using Sierra 150 gr SPBT, which most reached the lands with the ogive, given a one-diameter seating rule. (If I have the terminology right) They feed fine from the magazine, at 3.055 -3.060 (tip deformation again) (120, 140, 175 NP, and Sierra 160 SPBT also measured and recorded for future consideration. If I recall the 175 NP OAL ogive to lands was the same, or nearly so. Distance to lands was (and will. be) measured rather primitively - 10-12 trials with bullets of good tip appearance, ejector removed from bolt, middle 5 or 6 measurements averaged out. Close as I'm gonna get. Reloads with fired brass will be neck sized only to near, but not touching shoulder, using FL dies. Brass will be weight sorted, tho opinions seem to vary on that, Unless Imcan come up with 100 Hornady. Besides the new and once fired Win brass (45, total), I have a box of once fired Rem, 3 of Federal, and I will of course standardize on one. Hornady brass and ammo for this caliber seems to be unobtanium at this point, which I'd prefer. Only saw some Fed loaded ammo in SW- at nearly $50 a box. Ain't going there, unless just for brass, once I work things out a bit. Question is, do I pick a powder charge first (which I did- 40 gr 3031) , and experiment with "jump", or pick a "jump" to lands first, and redo the powder amounts? But I've some bedding work to do first, so no hurry - I can redo either way if necessary. Also for you experienced ones, is accuracy consistent with the consistent "jump" to lands between bulleti weights or types - they will have different seating depths, according to ogive. Or do each one of these mofos require a different workup? I ain't picky, when (if) I find a load that goes 1.25 MOA, I'll probably stop fooling with it.. Or not Yeah, I do know- change one damned thing at a time! I'll stick with just the Winchester brass and Sierra 150's for now. And I'll know the primers, which always helps.  Probably the simplest thing to do with this lot of loaded ammo is 5 targets, shooting one bullet from each load, checking for pressure signs, then fire the (safe) rest for group? Then go for the jump thing using the fire-formed brass? Give me a reality check here, I'm about a 90IQ reloader to date- I've only done the powder charge workup, using whatever was on hand, and always just reloaded to published OAL. Always managed to get a 1.25 MOA load, so this is high school - well, maybe Jr. High... I would set your bullets somewhere around/between 30 and 40 thousandths off of the lands. Then vary the powder charge. If your rifle likes the powder and bullet combination you will know right away. Your rifle won't go from shooting terrible groups to bugholes by tiny changes in the same powder or tiny changes in seating depth, in my experience. If you find a combination that it likes you will see your groups around 1" to 3/4" and then tiny changes will tighten that up. My 2¢ for what it's worth.
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10,050 Likes: 10
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10,050 Likes: 10 |
I use a Hornady Lock-N-Load chamber depth gauge and seat the bullet as close to the rifling as the magazine length will allow. It's easy to make a checking case for oddball cartridges- - - -just get the proper size threading tap (5/16-32, I believe) and make your own checking case.
Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid is forever!
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,949 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,949 Likes: 3 |
7x57, 0.75" 5 shot group, IMR4350 48.5 gr, Hornady #2820, 139gr Interlock (0.392 bc), Rem 9 1/2 primer, 3.082" OAL, 2830fps, es13, sd5, seat bot of can just above mouth
This is my go to load for an A&B 21" bbl VZ24 receiver w/Timney trigger rifle I assembled.
GOA
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,344
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,344 |
Isn't there a reloading section here on the 'Fire? 🤷♂️
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488 |
Isn't there a reloading section here on the 'Fire? 🤷♂️ There is, but it's an awful tough crowd down there. 
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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