Hey guys, I realize all rifles are different, but I'd like to get a vote on which 22lr ammo shoots the best in your rifles. It can be your favorite bench rifles, 10/22, Tikka T1x or your favorite Ansuchtz or Savage MK2. I'd like to hear what you guys and your rifles prefer. I have a brick of old Federal Gold Medal Match ammo that has been working great in all of my rifles. I'd like to buy some newer ammo though, as all of my matchgrade type ammo is a minimum of 20 years old.
Serious here, as some of this crusty schidt is showing its age. But it still shoots pretty dang good. I did find a box of newer RWS semi-auto ammo that shot surprisingly well. Wolf Match Extra and Wolf Match Target has also shot very well. What is your favorite low dollar accurate ammo go to, and what is your most accurate ammo regardless of price? I appreciate your comments on this. Thanks!!!
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Through the decades I've shot something north of 18 to 20 pistol and rifle in .22. I believe I have just as many different ammo manufacturers as well.
I seem to have good luck with Eley Tenex, Eley Match, Lapua Center X, Norma TAC 22, Federal Auto Match to name a few.
Fortunately, it's pretty easy now to find the best ammo for my pistols and rifles considering my diversified supply. I learned to feed each firearm what it wanted before I throw a lot of $$$ chasing a bunch of expensive accuracy improvements. Eventually you find the right combination.
The bulk of my .22 rifle shooting anymore is with vintage single shot target rifles - Ballards, Stevens Walnut Hill, Martinis, and a BSA International. Tenex remains the most consistent performer in all of them, with Lapua Midas and SK Match a close second and third.
A pleasant surprise was that I found SK Pistol Match to be a darned good performer in some of my other rifles - the BRNO #2, Winchester Miroku Low Wall, and Springfield M2 particularly like it which is good because I shan't be blasting "targets of opportunity" with premo match stuff in them. It's what usually goes in my pocket if searching for squirrels with one of those three in hand. Unfortunately it's not quite up to snuff for serious competition in the "main" rifles.
I too have a few old bricks of Federal Olympic Gold Medal Match that remains astonishingly accurate even with the oxidation that's forming like in BSA's pic. My plan is to finish shooting it up during next year's match season, the corrosion/lube deterioration isn't going to get better with age. I will cry though when it's all gone.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
The bulk of my .22 rifle shooting anymore is with vintage single shot target rifles - Ballards, Stevens Walnut Hill, Martinis, and a BSA International. Tenex remains the most consistent performer in all of them, with Lapua Midas and SK Match a close second and third.
A pleasant surprise was that I found SK Pistol Match to be a darned good performer in some of my other rifles - the BRNO #2, Winchester Miroku Low Wall, and Springfield M2 particularly like it which is good because I shan't be blasting "targets of opportunity" with premo match stuff in them. It's what usually goes in my pocket if searching for squirrels with one of those three in hand. Unfortunately it's not quite up to snuff for serious competition in the "main" rifles.
I too have a few old bricks of Federal Olympic Gold Medal Match that remains astonishingly accurate even with the oxidation that's forming like in BSA's pic. My plan is to finish shooting it up during next year's match season, the corrosion/lube deterioration isn't going to get better with age. I will cry though when it's all gone.
I hear you about crying when it's gone. I think I only have a couple hundred rounds of the Federal gold medal match that was made in 1992. That stuff shoots damn good in my 10-22. It's always so consistent, everytime I shoot it. I guess that's why I started this thread. I'm looking for some newer stuff to replace it. The picture on that box does not do it justice though!
I think maybe Wolf target match and Wolf match extra may take a close second place, along with SK standard plus. I know those are still in production, so I may look for some of that stuff. I've been hearing some good things about SK long range match ammo as well.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I have yet to try any of the most expensive ammo. I have tried some mid-grade products. Of those RWS Target Rifle and Norma Match have been most consistent. I have tried several Eley products. The HVHP is just so-so as is the sub-sonic HP. Eley Practice can be great, but has a good bit of lot to lot variation. I recently picked up some Eley Club and Semi Auto Bench Rest Precision. The Bench Rest was very good in the little I used it in one of my guns.
BSA, I have some old SK that the lube has dried on like that. I have thought about putting a little oil on a rag and rolling them around to "relube" them, and give that a try, but have not tried it yet.
I got the idea here:
Last edited by pullit; 12/07/23.
I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects
I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
Match ammo is oily for sure. I have not used it in a magazine as my bench gun is a single shot. That said, I plan on using match ammo in my 10/22 in factory class this coming year. I will for sure have to be cleaning my mags every couple of matches or so.
I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects
I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
That's one of the reasons why I stopped shooting Wolf Match. Not only is it the dirtiest ammo it is caked in lube. Now I use the 500 round bricks as a doorstop.
I don't usually shoot crap ammo, but I had to see for myself what was said about Remington Thunderbolt. Sure enough, strips of lead, a veritable lead mine. Just for the heck of it I hand lubed a batch with Lee Liquid Alox. Sure enough, the leading stopped. Just an experiment, a messy PITA. FWIW.
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
I experimented with re-lubing some of the oxidized Federal match stuff. I started by wiping the bullets clean with soft flannel, then I melted some Javelina Schuetzen bullet lube (made and sold by a guy in the American Single Shot Rifle Association), which I understand is 75% beeswax/25% Alox, and dipped the bullet noses in and out rapidly. Biggest issue was ending up with too much lube on the bullets which is why I tried to do it as quickly in-and-out as I could. Still a lot of lube on them though. Results: accuracy pretty much unchanged but things got cheesed up pretty good in and on the gun from all that lube. Second trial: dipped as before but then wiped clean with my fingers to get off the majority of the lube - pretty scientifically repeatable, huh?! Accuracy still ok, less mess in/on the gun but more mess on me. Conclusion: not much worth the hassle. If I tried it one more time I would dilute the mix with mineral spirits - but is it worth it in the end?
Thought about trying Lee Liquid Alox, and still might, but am a little leery about it's viscosity when dried/cured. It seems that the best premo target ammo is lightly lubed with substances that stay soft almost liquidy unlike LLA which dries sorta tough. Maybe with a bit of beeswax melted in? On the other hand I see the whole deal as a rabbit hole I'm not sure I want to go down.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 12/07/23.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Have we reached the apex of what we can expect from the .22 LR - and in particular the bullets to which it is limited? I know there is always room for improvement but even the most accurate ammo possible is still going to shoot a ballistically inefficient bullet at a low velocity.
Would we be better off putting some major development into something like the new 21 Sharp? I've never owned a .17 caliber rimfire but by all accounts, run of the mill .17 caliber rifles outshoot similar .22's by a good bit and especially as the range increases. A faster bullet with a much better BC that loses velocity at a much lower rate will always be less affected by wind.
In a perfectly windless environment good .22 LR ammo in excellent barrels can certainly show incredible one hole accuracy, but outside of that (literally outside) environmental factors will always be more detrimental to less ballistically efficient projectiles.
My long winded point here is that instead of relying on esoteric efforts to create results that are greatly affected by factors outside of our control (the art of reading the wind vs. the science of bullet and rifle technology), could we not see a major leap forward by by simply changing the bullet that a .22 LR case can shoot?
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Interesting comments for sure guys. I appreciate it. Speaking of too much lube, I can't believe how much they put on that Norma Tac22!! Now, some of the stuff I've shot has done well, but these last batches I bought do not shoot worth a chidt. Making me wished I would have bought the old Remington target ammo I saw a couple weeks ago. I hate to badmouth the Tac22 because I know some of you guys really love it. However, the last 200 I bought are dogs in every rifle I've tried them in. Bad lot I guess??? Not going to post any pics of those groups, they are embarrassing. Last week I was shooting them through a new rifle and I could see the bullets in flight. I'm guessing they were traveling around 800fps?
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Have we reached the apex of what we can expect from the .22 LR - and in particular the bullets to which it is limited? I know there is always room for improvement but even the most accurate ammo possible is still going to shoot a ballistically inefficient bullet at a low velocity.
Would we be better off putting some major development into something like the new 21 Sharp? I've never owned a .17 caliber rimfire but by all accounts, run of the mill .17 caliber rifles outshoot similar .22's by a good bit and especially as the range increases. A faster bullet with a much better BC that loses velocity at a much lower rate will always be less affected by wind.
In a perfectly windless environment good .22 LR ammo in excellent barrels can certainly show incredible one hole accuracy, but outside of that (literally outside) environmental factors will always be more detrimental to less ballistically efficient projectiles.
My long winded point here is that instead of relying on esoteric efforts to create results that are greatly affected by factors outside of our control (the art of reading the wind vs. the science of bullet and rifle technology), could we not see a major leap forward by by simply changing the bullet that a .22 LR case can shoot?
Food for thought.
I would say that there's always room for improvement. Had the shooters and ammo makers of 100 years ago thrown their hands up and said "this is as good as it can get" we'd be in a fix today. But, I doubt we'll see over the next 100 years the same dramatic increase in quality/accuracy that we've seen over the last 100 years. Ammo makers have spent a sh*t ton of money to develop what we now have (probably not out of kindness toward we shooters but as a means of profiting more than their competitors - always follow the money). Subtle changes in bullet shape, lead alloy, lube, cases, powder, priming compounds, etc. have served to move us forward. How much is left in that pot I don't know.
As for better BC bullets for the .22LR case, and different calibers, etc. yeah, I think that's where we'll see the most improvement. But along with new ideas about ammo there has to be attendant changes in the equipment that shoots it. I'll submit that the current .22LR match ammo is about as optimal as you can get for the bores/chambers/throats of the guns we shoot it in. Will more ballistically efficient bullets demand changes in said barrels, etc.? Undoubtedly. And will such revolutionary changes in ammo & gear demand revolutionary changes in how we approach the game, yeah probably again. That all spells money - money that ammo companies has to spend, and money we'll have to spend to get on the bandwagon - and to that end maybe it is better after all to let things progress slowly. I see so much trouble in the world from mankind leaping ahead way too fast in some things, faster than our frail psyches can keep up with sometimes. Kinda like if you went back to 1920 and gave a guy who's used to driving a Model T and rightfully can't conceive of a car that'll easily and (relatively) safely zip up to over 100 MPH and handle/brake accordingly well too, and drop him into a new BMW he would probably kill himself in less than two minutes - but we moderns who benefit from slow but progressive advances in automotive technology take that Beemer in stride. (Probably not the best analogy, but hey!)
Dunno, just thinking out loud.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Have we reached the apex of what we can expect from the .22 LR - and in particular the bullets to which it is limited? I know there is always room for improvement but even the most accurate ammo possible is still going to shoot a ballistically inefficient bullet at a low velocity.
Would we be better off putting some major development into something like the new 21 Sharp? I've never owned a .17 caliber rimfire but by all accounts, run of the mill .17 caliber rifles outshoot similar .22's by a good bit and especially as the range increases. A faster bullet with a much better BC that loses velocity at a much lower rate will always be less affected by wind.
In a perfectly windless environment good .22 LR ammo in excellent barrels can certainly show incredible one hole accuracy, but outside of that (literally outside) environmental factors will always be more detrimental to less ballistically efficient projectiles.
My long winded point here is that instead of relying on esoteric efforts to create results that are greatly affected by factors outside of our control (the art of reading the wind vs. the science of bullet and rifle technology), could we not see a major leap forward by by simply changing the bullet that a .22 LR case can shoot?
Food for thought.
I would say that there's always room for improvement. Had the shooters and ammo makers of 100 years ago thrown their hands up and said "this is as good as it can get" we'd be in a fix today. But, I doubt we'll see over the next 100 years the same dramatic increase in quality/accuracy that we've seen over the last 100 years. Ammo makers have spent a sh*t ton of money to develop what we now have (probably not out of kindness toward we shooters but as a means of profiting more than their competitors - always follow the money). Subtle changes in bullet shape, lead alloy, lube, cases, powder, priming compounds, etc. have served to move us forward. How much is left in that pot I don't know.
As for better BC bullets for the .22LR case, and different calibers, etc. yeah, I think that's where we'll see the most improvement. But along with new ideas about ammo there has to be attendant changes in the equipment that shoots it. I'll submit that the current .22LR match ammo is about as optimal as you can get for the bores/chambers/throats of the guns we shoot it in. Will more ballistically efficient bullets demand changes in said barrels, etc.? Undoubtedly. And will such revolutionary changes in ammo & gear demand revolutionary changes in how we approach the game, yeah probably again. That all spells money - money that ammo companies has to spend, and money we'll have to spend to get on the bandwagon - and to that end maybe it is better after all to let things progress slowly. I see so much trouble in the world from mankind leaping ahead way too fast in some things, faster than our frail psyches can keep up with sometimes. Kinda like if you went back to 1920 and gave a guy who's used to driving a Model T and rightfully can't conceive of a car that'll easily and (relatively) safely zip up to over 100 MPH and handle/brake accordingly well too, and drop him into a new BMW he would probably kill himself in less than two minutes - but we moderns who benefit from slow but progressive advances in automotive technology take that Beemer in stride. (Probably not the best analogy, but hey!)
Dunno, just thinking out loud.
It's always good to think about this kind of stuff. However, I've seen some absolute tack driving go down in very windy conditions. Even saw a 1 hole 10 shot group shot at 100 yards from a NRA competitor and his souped up Anschutz rifle. Some things have been eye openers for sure. Hell, rifles have been damn good for nearly a century now. Take my 1949 Winchester model 52 for example. It will compete with any high dollar rifle made these days. The ammo is what has improved slowly over the years though. Rifles pretty much staying the same internally, but looking different on the outside. Optics have also advanced to a high degree, even over the last 20 years. I think it really depends on individual needs. I myself am happy with the accuracy/precision I get out of every 22lr I own. From my Savage target rifles, Win 52, to my newest 10/22 clone. They all shoot damn fine. That may not be good enough for a high dollar benchrester, but good enough for my needs.
The other day I was shooting in a damn wind storm. Here are the results with 20+ year old ammo:
After 1 adjustment on the old Weaver V16 4-16x42, and I'm in the ballpark:
That old Weaver cost me $100.00 used a few years ago, but it works as it should. The rifle works as it should, and multiple ammos work as they should. In the wind even!!! This may be an eye opener to those that don't shoot in the wind much, but it was so windy that day that I had to tie the bottom of the backer board to the steel stand. Otherwise it was at full sail. When I got there, the target backer board was blowing 90 degrees from the target stand. I've shot a lot in the wind, but at the ranges most rimfire shoots are held (50 yards), the wind really doesn't affect what I do. I know, the naysayers will chime in.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
That's one of the reasons why I stopped shooting Wolf Match. Not only is it the dirtiest ammo it is caked in lube. Now I use the 500 round bricks as a doorstop.
Thanks buddy. However I've seen more lube on the Norma Tac22 ammo. That stuff is greezy!!! In cold (below freezing), that lube gets real sticky and starts affecting groups and even velocity as well. No bueno here. If you lived closer, I'd trade you a real doorstop for that Wolf match target ammo you have. ha ha..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Have we reached the apex of what we can expect from the .22 LR - and in particular the bullets to which it is limited? I know there is always room for improvement but even the most accurate ammo possible is still going to shoot a ballistically inefficient bullet at a low velocity.
I think any tangible improvement will be in manufacturing consistency. Many of the companies turning out rimfire are using machines that have been at it for a century. New machines and their ability to measure and produce consistent priming, rim thickness and powder loads may be the key to that. I suspect that the stuff that shoots best in my target rifles (Anschutz, Martini MKII) like Midas Plus and SK Match are due to consistency.
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
My best in a CZ 452 and a BSA International MKIII has been Federal Ultra match, I believe that it is RWS ammo. Have two bricks left and it is no longer made.. Have done well with SK Match and Wolf Match as well. Tried Eley but not as good and much more $$.
A tale strictly for amusement purposes. Many years back I bought a Vickers Special Grade II 1928 Special. It was represented by the seller as a super accurate rifle, which it never was with me at the helm. Enter an old! English gentleman emigrant I met. He had a mantel loaded with 'miniature rifle club' trophies. I related my tale of woe with the Vickers Special. He told me that it was a proper English rifle and it demanded proper English feeding. At his insistence, I bought the required Eley Tenex, cleaned the bore of the 'pollution of that foreign ammunition' (Federal Gold Medal Ultra Match) and fired 20 or so to season the bore...and bingo...she was competing with the 52B's. The old gentleman claimed that Eley still used beeswax and tallow, the only lube that doesn't cook or build up as round count goes up and he claimed that Vickers had cut the chamber to fit the Tenex...perhaps so. It'll never be an Anschutz...but it is amazing to see what a nearly century old rifle can do with fodder it likes.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
The only rifle I have that is close to a target rifle is a Kimber HS. That rifle along with a KDF K22, a Mauser 201, a custom Rem. 581/541, a Sako Quad, and a Kimber Classic, all love RWS subsonic. SK Standard, RWS R50, Wolf Target Match, and PMC Moderators. Since most of my rimfire rifles are catered towards hunting, I lean real heavily towards the RWS Subsonic since they are hollow points. And like many here I have many different types of 22lr. ammo, finding it fun to see how each rifle shoots them.
My Springfield 1922 M2 and my Anschutz 64 Stutzen will put 50 rounds of CCI Std. Velocity into one ragged hole @ 100yds. which is plenty good enough for me.
That's one of the reasons why I stopped shooting Wolf Match. Not only is it the dirtiest ammo it is caked in lube. Now I use the 500 round bricks as a doorstop.
Thanks buddy. However I've seen more lube on the Norma Tac22 ammo. That stuff is greezy!!! In cold (below freezing), that lube gets real sticky and starts affecting groups and even velocity as well. No bueno here. If you lived closer, I'd trade you a real doorstop for that Wolf match target ammo you have. ha ha..
PM me your address and I will ship you my Wolf. I can always find a new doorstop.
Have we reached the apex of what we can expect from the .22 LR - and in particular the bullets to which it is limited? I know there is always room for improvement but even the most accurate ammo possible is still going to shoot a ballistically inefficient bullet at a low velocity.
Would we be better off putting some major development into something like the new 21 Sharp? I've never owned a .17 caliber rimfire but by all accounts, run of the mill .17 caliber rifles outshoot similar .22's by a good bit and especially as the range increases. A faster bullet with a much better BC that loses velocity at a much lower rate will always be less affected by wind.
In a perfectly windless environment good .22 LR ammo in excellent barrels can certainly show incredible one hole accuracy, but outside of that (literally outside) environmental factors will always be more detrimental to less ballistically efficient projectiles.
My long winded point here is that instead of relying on esoteric efforts to create results that are greatly affected by factors outside of our control (the art of reading the wind vs. the science of bullet and rifle technology), could we not see a major leap forward by by simply changing the bullet that a .22 LR case can shoot?
Food for thought.
I would say that there's always room for improvement. Had the shooters and ammo makers of 100 years ago thrown their hands up and said "this is as good as it can get" we'd be in a fix today. But, I doubt we'll see over the next 100 years the same dramatic increase in quality/accuracy that we've seen over the last 100 years. Ammo makers have spent a sh*t ton of money to develop what we now have (probably not out of kindness toward we shooters but as a means of profiting more than their competitors - always follow the money). Subtle changes in bullet shape, lead alloy, lube, cases, powder, priming compounds, etc. have served to move us forward. How much is left in that pot I don't know.
As for better BC bullets for the .22LR case, and different calibers, etc. yeah, I think that's where we'll see the most improvement. But along with new ideas about ammo there has to be attendant changes in the equipment that shoots it. I'll submit that the current .22LR match ammo is about as optimal as you can get for the bores/chambers/throats of the guns we shoot it in. Will more ballistically efficient bullets demand changes in said barrels, etc.? Undoubtedly. And will such revolutionary changes in ammo & gear demand revolutionary changes in how we approach the game, yeah probably again. That all spells money - money that ammo companies has to spend, and money we'll have to spend to get on the bandwagon - and to that end maybe it is better after all to let things progress slowly. I see so much trouble in the world from mankind leaping ahead way too fast in some things, faster than our frail psyches can keep up with sometimes. Kinda like if you went back to 1920 and gave a guy who's used to driving a Model T and rightfully can't conceive of a car that'll easily and (relatively) safely zip up to over 100 MPH and handle/brake accordingly well too, and drop him into a new BMW he would probably kill himself in less than two minutes - but we moderns who benefit from slow but progressive advances in automotive technology take that Beemer in stride. (Probably not the best analogy, but hey!)
Dunno, just thinking out loud.
It's always good to think about this kind of stuff. However, I've seen some absolute tack driving go down in very windy conditions. Even saw a 1 hole 10 shot group shot at 100 yards from a NRA competitor and his souped up Anschutz rifle. Some things have been eye openers for sure. Hell, rifles have been damn good for nearly a century now. Take my 1949 Winchester model 52 for example. It will compete with any high dollar rifle made these days. The ammo is what has improved slowly over the years though. Rifles pretty much staying the same internally, but looking different on the outside. Optics have also advanced to a high degree, even over the last 20 years. I think it really depends on individual needs. I myself am happy with the accuracy/precision I get out of every 22lr I own. From my Savage target rifles, Win 52, to my newest 10/22 clone. They all shoot damn fine. That may not be good enough for a high dollar benchrester, but good enough for my needs.
The other day I was shooting in a damn wind storm. Here are the results with 20+ year old ammo:
After 1 adjustment on the old Weaver V16 4-16x42, and I'm in the ballpark:
That old Weaver cost me $100.00 used a few years ago, but it works as it should. The rifle works as it should, and multiple ammos work as they should. In the wind even!!! This may be an eye opener to those that don't shoot in the wind much, but it was so windy that day that I had to tie the bottom of the backer board to the steel stand. Otherwise it was at full sail. When I got there, the target backer board was blowing 90 degrees from the target stand. I've shot a lot in the wind, but at the ranges most rimfire shoots are held (50 yards), the wind really doesn't affect what I do. I know, the naysayers will chime in.
Cool
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Have we reached the apex of what we can expect from the .22 LR - and in particular the bullets to which it is limited? I know there is always room for improvement but even the most accurate ammo possible is still going to shoot a ballistically inefficient bullet at a low velocity.
Would we be better off putting some major development into something like the new 21 Sharp? I've never owned a .17 caliber rimfire but by all accounts, run of the mill .17 caliber rifles outshoot similar .22's by a good bit and especially as the range increases. A faster bullet with a much better BC that loses velocity at a much lower rate will always be less affected by wind.
In a perfectly windless environment good .22 LR ammo in excellent barrels can certainly show incredible one hole accuracy, but outside of that (literally outside) environmental factors will always be more detrimental to less ballistically efficient projectiles.
My long winded point here is that instead of relying on esoteric efforts to create results that are greatly affected by factors outside of our control (the art of reading the wind vs. the science of bullet and rifle technology), could we not see a major leap forward by by simply changing the bullet that a .22 LR case can shoot?
Food for thought.
I would say that there's always room for improvement. Had the shooters and ammo makers of 100 years ago thrown their hands up and said "this is as good as it can get" we'd be in a fix today. But, I doubt we'll see over the next 100 years the same dramatic increase in quality/accuracy that we've seen over the last 100 years. Ammo makers have spent a sh*t ton of money to develop what we now have (probably not out of kindness toward we shooters but as a means of profiting more than their competitors - always follow the money). Subtle changes in bullet shape, lead alloy, lube, cases, powder, priming compounds, etc. have served to move us forward. How much is left in that pot I don't know.
As for better BC bullets for the .22LR case, and different calibers, etc. yeah, I think that's where we'll see the most improvement. But along with new ideas about ammo there has to be attendant changes in the equipment that shoots it. I'll submit that the current .22LR match ammo is about as optimal as you can get for the bores/chambers/throats of the guns we shoot it in. Will more ballistically efficient bullets demand changes in said barrels, etc.? Undoubtedly. And will such revolutionary changes in ammo & gear demand revolutionary changes in how we approach the game, yeah probably again. That all spells money - money that ammo companies has to spend, and money we'll have to spend to get on the bandwagon - and to that end maybe it is better after all to let things progress slowly. I see so much trouble in the world from mankind leaping ahead way too fast in some things, faster than our frail psyches can keep up with sometimes. Kinda like if you went back to 1920 and gave a guy who's used to driving a Model T and rightfully can't conceive of a car that'll easily and (relatively) safely zip up to over 100 MPH and handle/brake accordingly well too, and drop him into a new BMW he would probably kill himself in less than two minutes - but we moderns who benefit from slow but progressive advances in automotive technology take that Beemer in stride. (Probably not the best analogy, but hey!)
Dunno, just thinking out loud.
Here's a sensible video regarding rifles and ammo. Good advice from this guy. I'm usually not a huge fan of his, but he hits on some good points.
Pay close attention to what he says about the "law of dimenshing returns".
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
That's one of the reasons why I stopped shooting Wolf Match. Not only is it the dirtiest ammo it is caked in lube. Now I use the 500 round bricks as a doorstop.
Thanks buddy. However I've seen more lube on the Norma Tac22 ammo. That stuff is greezy!!! In cold (below freezing), that lube gets real sticky and starts affecting groups and even velocity as well. No bueno here. If you lived closer, I'd trade you a real doorstop for that Wolf match target ammo you have. ha ha..
PM me your address and I will ship you my Wolf. I can always find a new doorstop.
I'll PM you, we can talk a price buddy!!!
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
A tale strictly for amusement purposes. Many years back I bought a Vickers Special Grade II 1928 Special. It was represented by the seller as a super accurate rifle, which it never was with me at the helm. Enter an old! English gentleman emigrant I met. He had a mantel loaded with 'miniature rifle club' trophies. I related my tale of woe with the Vickers Special. He told me that it was a proper English rifle and it demanded proper English feeding. At his insistence, I bought the required Eley Tenex, cleaned the bore of the 'pollution of that foreign ammunition' (Federal Gold Medal Ultra Match) and fired 20 or so to season the bore...and bingo...she was competing with the 52B's. The old gentleman claimed that Eley still used beeswax and tallow, the only lube that doesn't cook or build up as round count goes up and he claimed that Vickers had cut the chamber to fit the Tenex...perhaps so. It'll never be an Anschutz...but it is amazing to see what a nearly century old rifle can do with fodder it likes.
That mirrors my experience with a 1930's vintage BSA Model 12 that lives here. Feed it pretty much anything under the sun and it'll make you smile, but feed it Tenex and you'll be scheming how to get your buddies to shoot for money.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
A tale strictly for amusement purposes. Many years back I bought a Vickers Special Grade II 1928 Special. It was represented by the seller as a super accurate rifle, which it never was with me at the helm. Enter an old! English gentleman emigrant I met. He had a mantel loaded with 'miniature rifle club' trophies. I related my tale of woe with the Vickers Special. He told me that it was a proper English rifle and it demanded proper English feeding. At his insistence, I bought the required Eley Tenex, cleaned the bore of the 'pollution of that foreign ammunition' (Federal Gold Medal Ultra Match) and fired 20 or so to season the bore...and bingo...she was competing with the 52B's. The old gentleman claimed that Eley still used beeswax and tallow, the only lube that doesn't cook or build up as round count goes up and he claimed that Vickers had cut the chamber to fit the Tenex...perhaps so. It'll never be an Anschutz...but it is amazing to see what a nearly century old rifle can do with fodder it likes.
That mirrors my experience with a 1930's vintage BSA Model 12 that lives here. Feed it pretty much anything under the sun and it'll make you smile, but feed it Tenex and you'll be scheming how to get your buddies to shoot for money.
I love the old rifles. I've seen a bunch of older Mossbergs shoot lights out too. Some even hang with much more expensive Winchester 52's.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
For some reason, my Savage-Anshutz 10D really liked Aguila SE (blue box). And did not like Norma Tac22, or the Aguila SE (orange box,) and I got mixed results from various flavors of CCi, and some other odds and ends ammo.
However, in my H&R 451, the CCi standard velocity is just ridiculously accurate out of it.
I need to actually buy some true competition grade ammo and see how they fire out of my ever expanding collection.
A tale strictly for amusement purposes. Many years back I bought a Vickers Special Grade II 1928 Special. It was represented by the seller as a super accurate rifle, which it never was with me at the helm. Enter an old! English gentleman emigrant I met. He had a mantel loaded with 'miniature rifle club' trophies. I related my tale of woe with the Vickers Special. He told me that it was a proper English rifle and it demanded proper English feeding. At his insistence, I bought the required Eley Tenex, cleaned the bore of the 'pollution of that foreign ammunition' (Federal Gold Medal Ultra Match) and fired 20 or so to season the bore...and bingo...she was competing with the 52B's. The old gentleman claimed that Eley still used beeswax and tallow, the only lube that doesn't cook or build up as round count goes up and he claimed that Vickers had cut the chamber to fit the Tenex...perhaps so. It'll never be an Anschutz...but it is amazing to see what a nearly century old rifle can do with fodder it likes.
That mirrors my experience with a 1930's vintage BSA Model 12 that lives here. Feed it pretty much anything under the sun and it'll make you smile, but feed it Tenex and you'll be scheming how to get your buddies to shoot for money.
Tenex huh gnoahhh. I'll remember that one. That schidt is kind of expensive though. Probably why you want to shoot for money. To recoup some of the cost!!!! ha ha..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
BSA, Knowing your interest in groups larger than 3 to 5 shots and also for stretching the distance out past 50 or 100 yds I recommend you look up the “50 at 200yds” thread over on another board posted by a shooter “Jala”. The compiled data base of ammo types and guns used made for some informative buying during the last shortage. The super premiums did well. But some bargains were had also. For my CZ457 the SK biathalon and pistol match both proved to be very good. I think you will enjoy the rabbit hole if you like bell curve distribution and just how challenging it is to get a soft lead bullet seated without damage in a consistently primed 22lr brass case. I give all the OEMs credit for running a tight production line making rimfire ammo. All the best in the New Year.
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
I thought I read somewhere that Federal Gold Medal was made by RWS. Has anyone else heard that? I know RWS makes the Norma ammo and I find the Norma Match and subsonic shoot quite well in most of my rifles. SK Jag. Standard, while well lubed does shoot very well in most rimfires. Since I don't shoot it thru my 10-22's, the lube has never been an issue. Something else I've noticed is if I shoot lubed ammo then shoot some mediocre accurate bulk ammo, the first 5 rounds or so are nicely accurate, then the accuracy drops off. That lube does make a difference.
When participating in an online shooting challenge where we shot 50rds. of the same ammo in one setting, I shot 45rds of SK Standard thru my Kimber Hunter Classic ( I think it was the Classic, could have been the HS model), I had used 5 rounds to lower the scope poi, boy was that stupid. After 5 or so rounds I lost my cross hair center point. LOL Anyway, doing that sure shows the consistency of the rifle and ammo.
Later that week I shot the custom 581/541 (I call it my wannabe) using the same ammo and amount for a comparison.
Another online contest consisted of shooting a different type of target which ended up being quite challenging for me. I used my very favorite accuracy and hunting round to compete.
And just for the heck of it, here are some very old targets using RWS Sub. in the rifle that started all of this madness for extremely accurate sporter weight rifles, or you could say the Ultimate Squirrel rifle.
Something else I've noticed is if I shoot lubed ammo then shoot some mediocre accurate bulk ammo, the first 5 rounds or so are nicely accurate, then the accuracy drops off. That lube does make a difference.
I noticed the same thing a few years ago and as an experiment I put 100 rounds of SK Match and 100 rounds of a good grouping lot of CCI std vel together in a baggie and shook them around enough to get the lube spread onto the CCI. The results were very interesting - testing showed that the group size of the CCI decreased from consistent .5 to consistent .4 inch groups. I was surprised at how much of a decrease there was - lube does make a difference.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
Awesome information guys!! Some great shooting there K22. I remember that online challenge. I think I started it here? I also remember you and guys like penndog, Certifiable, and gnoahhh doing quite well on those targets. It was also a challenge for my rifles as well, but you did very well, if I remember right. There are quite a few great shooters in the rimfire forums here, that are a wealth of knowledge. I think in that challenge, we got to see a lot of high end 22lr being shot, and some of it did very well. Thanks for your input.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Thanks bsa. In truth, these last 4 to 5yrs has seen my shooting ability deteriorate a bit. I suppose I could hang with some, but not at the top of my game any more. But I'm not as young as I used to be so that's my excuse. I have become a big fan of the 17HM2, great little round. Not a big fan of the 17HMR. It might be more accurate than my 22 mag.'s, but my 22 Mag.'s a plenty accurate for Coyotes and Fox. That would be all I would shoot with a HMR and I have more faith in the 22 Mag. on those critters. I'm taking this thread off track, so back to the 22lr. The last targets I posted were all shot with the KDF K22. The top one was shot by Phil at KDF when I thought I had a problem with it. As the target shows it more than fulfilled their accuracy guarantee. Who knew Win. Super X would shoot that good at 50yds.
Thanks bsa. In truth, these last 4 to 5yrs has seen my shooting ability deteriorate a bit. I suppose I could hang with some, but not at the top of my game any more. But I'm not as young as I used to be so that's my excuse. I have become a big fan of the 17HM2, great little round. Not a big fan of the 17HMR. It might be more accurate than my 22 mag.'s, but my 22 Mag.'s a plenty accurate for Coyotes and Fox. That would be all I would shoot with a HMR and I have more faith in the 22 Mag. on those critters. I'm taking this thread off track, so back to the 22lr. The last targets I posted were all shot with the KDF K22. The top one was shot by Phil at KDF when I thought I had a problem with it. As the target shows it more than fulfilled their accuracy guarantee. Who knew Win. Super X would shoot that good at 50yds.
Dang, superX at 50 yards. That is pretty dang good. I've never had that kind of luck with it. Generally getting a flier that screws up a good group. Even the better super X T22 target ammo I have is not great.. That is also interesting about the 17HM2. I've often wondered about that cartridge. I've been seeing more of it on the shelves lately too. I really like my Savage A17, but it's an HMR and a semi auto. That rifle is a tack driver though. I am going to be selling one of my Savage stainless 93R17 17HMR rifles here shortly. Just don't need it anymore. It is also a tack driver, but the A17 shoots just as good.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Ya, I know, that humbled me. That was their guarantee, to shoot a 1/2" group at 50yds. with Win. Super X. It was the reason I bought one, then several more. I think they were the first factory pillar bedded rimfire rifles. You really need to pick up a 17 HM2. They make the Savage A17 in 17HM2 also. My 17HM2 is a Sako Quad and it shoots exceptionally well. The Hornady Vmax shoots as small of groups as the Eley HM2 in the Sako. I'm thinking real hard about picking up a CZ 457 American and putting a Lilja 17HM2 tapered barrel on it. That should be a fun project.
Has anybody here ever tried the Paco Kelly or Neil Waltz tool for bullet resizing and/or hollow pointing? A while back, I did some experimenting with the Waltz tool and was impressed with the results…this was with a wide variety of ammo out of a CZ455
CCI Standard Velocity 40 grain RN has always shot very well in all of my .22’s!
My Winchester model 52 target rifle especially will stack them!
Only 1 of my rifles likes that ammo. Generally they like Federal Automatch and American Eagle much better. Not a big CCI fanboy, I guess...
I wasn’t until I shot it. For hunting use the American Eagle 36 grain HV HP’s have done the best. They shoot almost as good as the CCI’s in my rifles.
A lot of my buddies at my club in Washington really like CCI standard velocity "target" ammo. They actually swear by it. I can't tell you how many different rifles I've tried it in, hoping to find one that really likes it. Even my Kidd barreled 10/22 likes American Eagle H.P's better. However, with that being said, low and behold I finally found one rifle that loves it too. I found this out the other day, when I was testing different ammo on my Savage MKII target rifle:
This is a great example of why we test different ammo in our rifles. Actually I think it's cool when you find a rifle that likes the cheaper ammo. I have some that love the Federal Automatch, of all things.
Originally Posted by Mr_TooDogs
For me since I'm too cheap to shoot Lapua it's SK Standard and an old stash of Wolf Match Extra & Target (this ammo was made by Lapua).
I understand current Wolf is an Eley product, have not shot any, and don't know if Eley changed the recipe.
This ammo shot in Sav MII BTV that's pillared, trigger tuned to 2#, epoxy bedding.
I'll shoot CCI SV now and then.
From my most recent tests, I'd say that the newer Wolf made by Eley may be a little more consistent shooting than the older Wolf made by Lapua. If I remember right, the newer stuff is in the plastic box:
The older Wolf being in a cardboard box:
I still don't know which is better, the Wolf match extra, or the wolf match target?? I've tried both, and they shot so close, that it was hard to discern.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
An Anschutz 64 MPR & Fed GM 900B has been the best combo I've used. The GM zlsoshinedina 7" Mod 41 Smith as well. Now using older Wolf with good results. It matches old Fed. in the Annie @ 50 in a Kidd.
Both 5 shots in the Annie, many more groups were close so no flukes, but these may be best.
I want to do a shout out to STRSWilson here, for sending me his Wolf Match Extra. Did a little testing with it the other day in a couple different rifles, let my girlfriend shoot some in some of my rifles too. We had a fun day, testing ammo, and testing my Volquartsen trigger I just installed in my 10/22 clone. Here are some results:
3 targets shot back to back:
Now, that is not the best grouping ammo in that rifle, but it's satisfactory. I'm not complaining!!
I even took my new Winchester model 52 out, and even though I did not want to do this quite yet, had a head to head match with my old 1949 model 52B:
Shot 2 targets with the old 52B:
Not bughole groups, like this rifle has shot, but still not bad. Pretty consistently accurate ammo, amongst all of my 22 rifles.
It's the same ammo, that I tested in my new to me Winchester model 52 reproduction sporter, right after I got it:
At the moment, that Wolf Match Extra ammo is my most accurate ammo, thanks to STRSWilson for sending it to me. Much appreciated buddy!!!!!!
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Good stuff guys. You are right, when you say a lot of it depends on what rifle/rifle type you are running this ammo in. As some of you know, I'm out there looking for ammo all the time. I like running across a good deal on good ammo. A few days ago, I had to go to California, and then to Reno, so I stopped at some of my favorite spots. Here's some of what I found:
I love trying that old ammo in stuff. I have a few different new rifles to try this in too, so that makes it even better. Earlier today, I went to the range to do some testing with the new rifles and ammo.
One rifle that is not picky with anything, I should have just left home. It even shoots Automatch and American Eagle well.
Ruger 10/22 with Kidd barrel with the new FGMM. This is 1995 manufacture, and shoots just as well as my old stuff, that was made in 1992:
It's a waste of time, showing groups with that rifle. That sob is a shooter. Lets see what the new CZ 457 did. SK Standard Plus, in the old box:
Lapua Master: That chidt shoots as good as it looks:
Norma Match, that I found at Cabela's. They only had one box!!! Or I would have bought more. I've generally had pretty good luck with Norma match. This box was no exception:
Dropped one out, wish I had more to test. But it appeared to shoot well. The CZ 457 American is not a target/varmint, or benchrest type rifle. It shoots pretty good for what it is. Now I need to go and test some SK HV Match ammo... We'll see how that works in this rifle...
Thanks for sharing your results in this thread! It's much appreciated!!
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I haven't really tested that much, primarily due to availability, secondly due to my ADD.
From what I did test in my B14R, I settled on Lapua LR. SK LR on the left, Lapua LR on the right, 10 shots at 50yds:
I normally only shoot from a bench for load development and testing, paper has it's benefits, but frankly bores me to tears. I'd rather shoot steel from positions.
“Might does not make right but it sure makes what is.”
I haven't really tested that much, primarily due to availability, secondly due to my ADD.
From what I did test in my B14R, I settled on Lapua LR. SK LR on the left, Lapua LR on the right, 10 shots at 50yds:
I normally only shoot from a bench for load development and testing, paper has it's benefits, but frankly bores me to tears. I'd rather shoot steel from positions.
Well, you got to shoot paper to know what your rifle and ammo is going to do. I think that Lapua and SK long range match is pretty popular stuff. Seems to do real well. However, I'm not going to be paying $20+ per fu cking box of 50 for 22lr!!!
Check out this video. This guy has close to 10 grand in his set up. If I were shooting a rifle like that, I'd maybe be shooting Lapua long range:
In this type of shoot, it is imperative that the ammo you use is consistent.
It's also known that every rifle responds differently to different ammo. Being the most expensive, does not guarantee it's going to shoot the best in all of your rifles too. I'm just trying to see what you guys are having the best luck with, and which ammo is the most consistent, across the board. It's also funny that some rifles are extremely picky/finnicky while others are like a honey badger (just don't give a chidt).
Also, as far as shooting. It's all good. Whether its paper, steel, varmints, off the bench, or offhand. Pulling the trigger is pulling the trigger.
Someone made a comment about Norma match, in a different thread. Saying it's been terrible for them. I'll say it's been excellent for me and all of my rifles. It didn't matter if it was old or new lots either... There are also a lot of guys that love TAC 22, and that has been absolute garbage in a lot of my rifles. Go figure..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I've had pretty good luck with SK Standard Plus in several rifles. I've wanted to try SK Rifle Match but it's more expensive and I haven't gotten around to it yet. And Eley Tenex shot well in the one rifle I tried it in.
For decent everyday accuracy shooting in higher volume I like CCI standard velocity.
I've had pretty good luck with SK Standard Plus in several rifles. I've wanted to try SK Rifle Match but it's more expensive and I haven't gotten around to it yet. And Eley Tenex shot well in the one rifle I tried it in.
For decent everyday accuracy shooting in higher volume I like CCI standard velocity.
I know a lot of my friends in your neck of the woods really like that CCI standard velocity "target" ammo. I've shot against them all using it in our rimfire matches. Some rifles shoot it well, but not spectacular, and some don't shoot it well at all. I'm talking 1"+ 10 shot groups at 50 yards, in their target rifles. Like I've said before, I always try to give it a fair chance, but I don't think me and CCI agree. Only one of my rifles likes it, and I recently traded that rifle (Savage MK2 FVT) for a new CZ 457 American.
At the local Walmart, the CCI SV is $5/box, which makes it a good deal, if you have a rifle that likes it. As of date, this is what I can expect out of the SV, with my new CZ: But like I've said before, I have better luck with Federal Automatch, in all of my rifles:
My new, to me, Winchester 320 doesn't do too bad with CCI SV, but it's not exceptional: I'm really liking this rifle though.
I was at Scheels the other day, and saw a bunch of Eley target type ammo: I'd love to try that black box ammo out, but at $23.99, they can keep it!!
I ended up buying a couple boxes to try out. The Eley Semi auto benchrest "outlaw" ammo looked good, and it was slightly less than the other semi auto match ammo they had. Like I said before, this rifle is not a benchrest gun. Just a good example of how a good sporter should shoot. It's still not shooting as well, or consistently as my 1974 Winchester model 320. This Semi Auto benchrest "outlaw" ammo was $10.99/box, where the regular semi auto benchrest ammo was $12.99/box.
That Eley club ammo I've shot was pretty good ammo too. At $9.99/box, it's not a bad deal. I miss the old Club Xtra I had:
That stuff shot real well in every rifle I own.
A couple weeks ago, I had the chance to try a little Lapua Midas as well: Not the greatest in the new CZ. However, that was before it was glass bedded. It seems to shoot more consistently now, with all the ammo I've been testing in it.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I hear you about the costs, but "it is what it is" based on the accuracy requirements. I can get Lapua LR for about $180 a brick delivered and that's about a seasons worth of matches.
I've also got some RWS Match and Norma to try once it warms up.
Once it's "tuned" I can get TAC22 to 1/2" for 10rds at 50 (#2 & #5), but the small flyers persist:
It works well for cheaper practice ammo. The problem is that only gets me about a 65-75% chance on a 1/4" KYL TGT at 50-65 yds. Then there's the chrono stats which can be a killer past 100yds.
I've tried CCI Standard and color me unimpressed, the TAC22 shot better in my gun, and the stats were actually worse with the CCI.
“Might does not make right but it sure makes what is.”
I hear you about the costs, but "it is what it is" based on the accuracy requirements. I can get Lapua LR for about $180 a brick delivered and that's about a seasons worth of matches.
I've also got some RWS Match and Norma to try once it warms up.
Once it's "tuned" I can get TAC22 to 1/2" for 10rds at 50 (#2 & #5), but the small flyers persist:
It works well for cheaper practice ammo. The problem is that only gets me about a 65-75% chance on a 1/4" KYL TGT at 50-65 yds. Then there's the chrono stats which can be a killer past 100yds.
I've tried CCI Standard and color me unimpressed, the TAC22 shot better in my gun, and the stats were actually worse with the CCI.
Good info. Thanks! I think sometimes I got a bad lot of the TAC22 ammo, as some I've shot worked very well, then the next was very bad!! I guess the reason we try different lots too. I appreciate the target pics. Some guys scoff at them, but it's the best way to represent what you are talking about. As far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I shot some Sk pistol match for practice yesterday with a few guys in our local group. 227, 219, 236 with my T1x. I shot a guys custom 457 and shot a 241 usbr. I shot an ARA unlimited card with my T1x and shot a 1475. First ARA I’ve shot, I like them.
I shot some Sk pistol match for practice yesterday with a few guys in our local group. 227, 219, 236 with my T1x. I shot a guys custom 457 and shot a 241 usbr. I shot an ARA unlimited card with my T1x and shot a 1475. First ARA I’ve shot, I like them.
Next match April 6.
A lot of guys like that pistol match stuff. At my club, I know some of the old guys have some boxes of 30 year old pistol match ammo, and it shoots well. I've seen on a lot of Youtube videos, where guys are using the SK pistol match too. Sounds like it's working pretty good in your rifle. I seem to remember you were shooting in the 230's with the other ammo you were using though. I think in true competition, I'd pay the piper, to shoot at least with the top of the heap, rather than being in the bottom. A lot of that depends on equipment, as much as it does ammo though. I keep saying you should check out that challenge I posted. You are one that shoots a lot of tiny targets, that may be right up your alley.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I shot some Sk pistol match for practice yesterday with a few guys in our local group. 227, 219, 236 with my T1x. I shot a guys custom 457 and shot a 241 usbr. I shot an ARA unlimited card with my T1x and shot a 1475. First ARA I’ve shot, I like them.
Next match April 6.
H, here's an honest review and video by a youtuber. This guy tests some SK ammo in his heavy barreled CZ. Pistol match was one of the ones he tests. Looked like the CCI SV did about as good as any, which is pretty good for the price point:
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I do need to try the challenge you put up, I’ve seen it I’ve not tried it.
I’ve shot about everything I can get my hands on and I’ve settled for Norma Tac22 for 95% of my practice and Lapua for matches. Sk pistol Match has been good but I had one bad lot and I’ve not bought as much after that.
On the usbr from my rifle
CCI sv averages 190-200 Tac22 averages 210-218 Sk Pistol Match - 220-230, bad lot was 210, best lot was 228-238 Lapua Pistol King -225-235 Midas Plus - I’ve only shot 2 cards with it, in terrible wind I shot a 226 and in good conditions I shot a 238
The ones that just fly out of no where that we get with CCI SV and we will get some with Tac22 but not as severe are killers on the USBR cards and the ARA cards.
This guys stuff is pretty good. His rifle is light years above mine but our ammo results are pretty similar. I wish my stuff liked CCI sv it just doesn’t.
He has a good list of ammo he has tested here as well
Here was 5 with a lot of Lapua Pistol King my T1x really liked, obviously shot in good conditions
5 with a different lot of Pistol King
5 after adjustment
Here is a 10 shot group from the guy that beat me often with CenterX from his Vudoo
Here are two usbr cards I shot. I didn’t keep the 236 from Sunday with Pistol Match.
234 with my T1x and Pistol King. The top sighter is 7 shots. First was high, adjust, low, then I had my hold for 5
This was with the custom. Center sighter is 5 shots adjusting the scope. Left sighter is 3 shots. Right sighter was a new lot of ammo I opened during the card to check zero to finish. First was high and then I worked it down. It had a NF 12-42x56br scope with the 1/8 MOA clicks so it was quite precise.
Here was 5 with a lot of Lapua Pistol King my T1x really liked, obviously shot in good conditions
5 with a different lot of Pistol King
5 after adjustment
Here is a 10 shot group from the guy that beat me often with CenterX from his Vudoo
Here are two usbr cards I shot. I didn’t keep the 236 from Sunday with Pistol Match.
234 with my T1x and Pistol King. The top sighter is 7 shots. First was high, adjust, low, then I had my hold for 5
This was with the custom. Center sighter is 5 shots adjusting the scope. Left sighter is 3 shots. Right sighter was a new lot of ammo I opened during the card to check zero to finish. First was high and then I worked it down. It had a NF 12-42x56br scope with the 1/8 MOA clicks so it was quite precise.
Looking great. Now go and shoot the challenge target from day at the range.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Here was 5 with a lot of Lapua Pistol King my T1x really liked, obviously shot in good conditions
5 with a different lot of Pistol King
5 after adjustment
Here is a 10 shot group from the guy that beat me often with CenterX from his Vudoo
Here are two usbr cards I shot. I didn’t keep the 236 from Sunday with Pistol Match.
234 with my T1x and Pistol King. The top sighter is 7 shots. First was high, adjust, low, then I had my hold for 5
This was with the custom. Center sighter is 5 shots adjusting the scope. Left sighter is 3 shots. Right sighter was a new lot of ammo I opened during the card to check zero to finish. First was high and then I worked it down. It had a NF 12-42x56br scope with the 1/8 MOA clicks so it was quite precise.
Looking great. Now go and shoot the challenge target from day at the range.
I shot a new lot of Sk pistol, it’s ok. I thought the rain had quit but it came back and soaked everything. I shot a 67 and had four 0’s lol. 2 were my fault and 2 I have no idea.
The target pretty much disintegrated when I took it off the board between breeze and rain, so no pics.
Here was 5 with a lot of Lapua Pistol King my T1x really liked, obviously shot in good conditions
5 with a different lot of Pistol King
5 after adjustment
Here is a 10 shot group from the guy that beat me often with CenterX from his Vudoo
Here are two usbr cards I shot. I didn’t keep the 236 from Sunday with Pistol Match.
234 with my T1x and Pistol King. The top sighter is 7 shots. First was high, adjust, low, then I had my hold for 5
This was with the custom. Center sighter is 5 shots adjusting the scope. Left sighter is 3 shots. Right sighter was a new lot of ammo I opened during the card to check zero to finish. First was high and then I worked it down. It had a NF 12-42x56br scope with the 1/8 MOA clicks so it was quite precise.
Looking great. Now go and shoot the challenge target from day at the range.
I shot a new lot of Sk pistol, it’s ok. I thought the rain had quit but it came back and soaked everything. I shot a 67 and had four 0’s lol. 2 were my fault and 2 I have no idea.
The target pretty much disintegrated when I took it off the board between breeze and rain, so no pics.
I'm glad you shot it man. That gives some of these other guys an idea on how challenging it actually is. I think Certifiable and his bro's saw that from the beginning. I have commented on how some of the guys on youtube don't know wtf they are doing, but some of those guys that shoot rimfire are damn good. Not that there is much of a difference between shooting rimfire and centerfire, but it seems like the rimfire guys shoot a lot more, and they are consistently better shooters. Even here in this forum, I have noticed that. I've posted a few challenges here, and I always get participation from these guys. Much appreciated too!!!!
You are doing well in your USBR shoots too buddy!!!! That little Tikka is a shooting machine!! Loving that. A while back, I was wanting to buy one, but I held off.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I do need to try the challenge you put up, I’ve seen it I’ve not tried it.
I’ve shot about everything I can get my hands on and I’ve settled for Norma Tac22 for 95% of my practice and Lapua for matches. Sk pistol Match has been good but I had one bad lot and I’ve not bought as much after that.
On the usbr from my rifle
CCI sv averages 190-200 Tac22 averages 210-218 Sk Pistol Match - 220-230, bad lot was 210, best lot was 228-238 Lapua Pistol King -225-235 Midas Plus - I’ve only shot 2 cards with it, in terrible wind I shot a 226 and in good conditions I shot a 238
The ones that just fly out of no where that we get with CCI SV and we will get some with Tac22 but not as severe are killers on the USBR cards and the ARA cards.
This guys stuff is pretty good. His rifle is light years above mine but our ammo results are pretty similar. I wish my stuff liked CCI sv it just doesn’t.
He has a good list of ammo he has tested here as well
Yeah, he's alright, but he is always in "pursuit of accuracy". I keep asking if he's found it yet. He also has the "most accurate 10/22 in the world". I asked him to shoot the challenge from day at the range with it. He still has not done it. He messes with action screw torque, and seems to always battle first shot fliers and chidt like that. He's not quite there yet, when it comes to the mechanics of a rifle. His CZ has a $700.00 Lilja barrel on it, you'd think it would just punch one hole all the time!!! I also got tired of his scratchy voice. There are a lot of guys that watch him though..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Here was 5 with a lot of Lapua Pistol King my T1x really liked, obviously shot in good conditions
5 with a different lot of Pistol King
5 after adjustment
Here is a 10 shot group from the guy that beat me often with CenterX from his Vudoo
Here are two usbr cards I shot. I didn’t keep the 236 from Sunday with Pistol Match.
234 with my T1x and Pistol King. The top sighter is 7 shots. First was high, adjust, low, then I had my hold for 5
This was with the custom. Center sighter is 5 shots adjusting the scope. Left sighter is 3 shots. Right sighter was a new lot of ammo I opened during the card to check zero to finish. First was high and then I worked it down. It had a NF 12-42x56br scope with the 1/8 MOA clicks so it was quite precise.
Looking great. Now go and shoot the challenge target from day at the range.
I shot a new lot of Sk pistol, it’s ok. I thought the rain had quit but it came back and soaked everything. I shot a 67 and had four 0’s lol. 2 were my fault and 2 I have no idea.
The target pretty much disintegrated when I took it off the board between breeze and rain, so no pics.
I'm glad you shot it man. That gives some of these other guys an idea on how challenging it actually is. I think Certifiable and his bro's saw that from the beginning. I have commented on how some of the guys on youtube don't know wtf they are doing, but some of those guys that shoot rimfire are damn good. Not that there is much of a difference between shooting rimfire and centerfire, but it seems like the rimfire guys shoot a lot more, and they are consistently better shooters. Even here in this forum, I have noticed that. I've posted a few challenges here, and I always get participation from these guys. Much appreciated too!!!!
You are doing well in your USBR shoots too buddy!!!! That little Tikka is a shooting machine!! Loving that. A while back, I was wanting to buy one, but I held off.
If I were buying again I think I’d pick up a CZ Varmint, maybe an MTR, but the Varmints that I am shooting against are to handle. I’m not crazy about CZ stocks but that could be remedied via KRG Bravo.
Here was 5 with a lot of Lapua Pistol King my T1x really liked, obviously shot in good conditions
5 with a different lot of Pistol King
5 after adjustment
Here is a 10 shot group from the guy that beat me often with CenterX from his Vudoo
Here are two usbr cards I shot. I didn’t keep the 236 from Sunday with Pistol Match.
234 with my T1x and Pistol King. The top sighter is 7 shots. First was high, adjust, low, then I had my hold for 5
This was with the custom. Center sighter is 5 shots adjusting the scope. Left sighter is 3 shots. Right sighter was a new lot of ammo I opened during the card to check zero to finish. First was high and then I worked it down. It had a NF 12-42x56br scope with the 1/8 MOA clicks so it was quite precise.
Looking great. Now go and shoot the challenge target from day at the range.
I shot a new lot of Sk pistol, it’s ok. I thought the rain had quit but it came back and soaked everything. I shot a 67 and had four 0’s lol. 2 were my fault and 2 I have no idea.
The target pretty much disintegrated when I took it off the board between breeze and rain, so no pics.
I'm glad you shot it man. That gives some of these other guys an idea on how challenging it actually is. I think Certifiable and his bro's saw that from the beginning. I have commented on how some of the guys on youtube don't know wtf they are doing, but some of those guys that shoot rimfire are damn good. Not that there is much of a difference between shooting rimfire and centerfire, but it seems like the rimfire guys shoot a lot more, and they are consistently better shooters. Even here in this forum, I have noticed that. I've posted a few challenges here, and I always get participation from these guys. Much appreciated too!!!!
You are doing well in your USBR shoots too buddy!!!! That little Tikka is a shooting machine!! Loving that. A while back, I was wanting to buy one, but I held off.
If I were buying again I think I’d pick up a CZ Varmint, maybe an MTR, but the Varmints that I am shooting against are to handle. I’m not crazy about CZ stocks but that could be remedied via KRG Bravo.
How are the Bergara B14's doing? Seems like they shoot very well. As for the CZ's, it seems like your Tikka holds it's own against them.. it also seems like guys are putting Lilja barrels on the MTR's and Varmints. That's an extra $700.00, just to get the CZ's to shoot acceptably well. A good rifle should have a good factory barrel on it, like your Tikka for example. To me, that is more of a reason to buy a Tikka..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Here was 5 with a lot of Lapua Pistol King my T1x really liked, obviously shot in good conditions
5 with a different lot of Pistol King
5 after adjustment
Here is a 10 shot group from the guy that beat me often with CenterX from his Vudoo
Here are two usbr cards I shot. I didn’t keep the 236 from Sunday with Pistol Match.
234 with my T1x and Pistol King. The top sighter is 7 shots. First was high, adjust, low, then I had my hold for 5
This was with the custom. Center sighter is 5 shots adjusting the scope. Left sighter is 3 shots. Right sighter was a new lot of ammo I opened during the card to check zero to finish. First was high and then I worked it down. It had a NF 12-42x56br scope with the 1/8 MOA clicks so it was quite precise.
Looking great. Now go and shoot the challenge target from day at the range.
I shot a new lot of Sk pistol, it’s ok. I thought the rain had quit but it came back and soaked everything. I shot a 67 and had four 0’s lol. 2 were my fault and 2 I have no idea.
The target pretty much disintegrated when I took it off the board between breeze and rain, so no pics.
I'm glad you shot it man. That gives some of these other guys an idea on how challenging it actually is. I think Certifiable and his bro's saw that from the beginning. I have commented on how some of the guys on youtube don't know wtf they are doing, but some of those guys that shoot rimfire are damn good. Not that there is much of a difference between shooting rimfire and centerfire, but it seems like the rimfire guys shoot a lot more, and they are consistently better shooters. Even here in this forum, I have noticed that. I've posted a few challenges here, and I always get participation from these guys. Much appreciated too!!!!
You are doing well in your USBR shoots too buddy!!!! That little Tikka is a shooting machine!! Loving that. A while back, I was wanting to buy one, but I held off.
If I were buying again I think I’d pick up a CZ Varmint, maybe an MTR, but the Varmints that I am shooting against are to handle. I’m not crazy about CZ stocks but that could be remedied via KRG Bravo.
How are the Bergara B14's doing? Seems like they shoot very well. As for the CZ's, it seems like your Tikka holds it's own against them.. it also seems like guys are putting Lilja barrels on the MTR's and Varmints. That's an extra $700.00, just to get the CZ's to shoot acceptably well. A good rifle should have a good factory barrel on it, like your Tikka for example. To me, that is more of a reason to buy a Tikka..
We are down to 3 Bergaras. Two shoot great, one carbon and one steel, the other is driven by a guy that has to be blind because he is not competitive, lol. I know five guys that have them and all had feeding issues early but I think that got fixed.
To this point my T1x has a vertical grip, an 3d bag rider and a forearm added and that’s it other than a trigger spring clip.
The other guys that are always in the running have MDT Chassis, tuners, TriggerTech triggers, etc. I’m over here just banging away with my little $hitbox T1x, lol. I say that because this is considered the “factory class” in our group.
The CZ guys can change barrels as long as it’s a factory CZ barrel. I was going to buy a T1x barrel from Gary Eliseo and I was told I couldn’t shoot against them because he’s a gunsmith, lol.
It’s fun though. It’s pretty cool my gun with about $50 worth of parts is hanging with guys that have an extra $1k in their rifles with add ons.
I broke down and added a 3-6oz Jard trigger today. That/me was responsible for two 0’s on the Clover challenge, lol. I was adjusting my rifle and must have brushed the side of the trigger.
Great info. Thanks buddy!! Man, that Bergara barreled action looks sweet. The feeding issues has me concerned though. When the T1x first came out, I think they also had some issues with that, due to the magazines. That's one thing the CZ's do very well, I guess. Mine feeds almost as nicely as my 1949 Winchester model 52, and that is saying a lot..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Great info. Thanks buddy!! Man, that Bergara barreled action looks sweet. The feeding issues has me concerned though. When the T1x first came out, I think they also had some issues with that, due to the magazines. That's one thing the CZ's do very well, I guess. Mine feeds almost as nicely as my 1949 Winchester model 52, and that is saying a lot..
If you get a T1x that feeds weird remove it from the stock and loosen the screw that holds the magwell in, pull it back towards the trigger and tighten the screw. That usually fixes it as it changes the angle making it less steep.
One of the Bergara guys bought 5 extra mags before he found one that would feed. I think all that mess has been remedied though as I’ve not seen them have an issue in quite awhile.
Great info. Thanks buddy!! Man, that Bergara barreled action looks sweet. The feeding issues has me concerned though. When the T1x first came out, I think they also had some issues with that, due to the magazines. That's one thing the CZ's do very well, I guess. Mine feeds almost as nicely as my 1949 Winchester model 52, and that is saying a lot..
If you get a T1x that feeds weird remove it from the stock and loosen the screw that holds the magwell in, pull it back towards the trigger and tighten the screw. That usually fixes it as it changes the angle making it less steep.
One of the Bergara guys bought 5 extra mags before he found one that would feed. I think all that mess has been remedied though as I’ve not seen them have an issue in quite awhile.
Good info. Thanks. I’ll try to remember that!
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I have a savage mark ii tr. Only about 500 rounds through it so far but it likes sk lr match and sk sv. For regular plinking I use cci sv. The sleeper for this rifle is Anguilla target competition.
It's good to lead - it's better to lead by example.
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