Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 7x57 vs 280

A quick look at some data from Alliant on the 7-08, 7x57, and .280

139 Hornady Bullet, 24" bbl for each.

7-08 - 52grs R-19 give 2850 at 57,900psi

7x57 - 51.8grs R-19 gives 2835 at 49,000psi

.280 - 57grs R-19 gives 2970 at 58,000psi

The 7x57 appears to be a very efficient cartidge. And if loaded to modern pressures of 58K-60Kpsi, in modern firearms, would seem to rival the .280 at like pressure. While the 7-08 is at or near max SAAMI pressure of 61,000psi running that speed. The difference being only that the .280 can be safely loaded to 65Kpsi like its cousin the .270...for a gain of @ 150fps, and of course the selling point of the 7-08 is the short action. All in all the 7x57 appears by far to be the most efficient of the 3, and only takes a back seat to the .280 by 150fps, or the 7-08 by a few extra ounces of action legnth.

I have a jones in a big way for a 7x57, but I'll always love my .280Rem, and can't ever forsee a use or need in my life for a 7-08. YMMV.

According to the above paragraph from Mule Deer (who I have great respect for) by handloading a 7x57 you might achieve a MV of 2950, or 120 fps faster than a Hornady LM 7x57. What I don't understand is why the 7mm-08 is considered lessor than the 7x57 by people on this forum, when the Hornady LM in 7mm-08 is already at 3000fps, only 110fps slower than a .280.

I'm just curious, I really have no axe to grind either way, as I shoot a .308 and at the MV's we're talking about, I'm sure a deer would never know the difference.

Patrick

.280 Remington posted before me and answered my question.

I agree. As much as I like the .280. I would actually love to have a 7x57 mountain rifle. Each of the .284's is just a different tool and each has their place and use.

I was the person who crunched the numbers and came up with the formula (approximate) that any increase or decrease in powder capacity results in 1/4 that increase in potential muzzle velocity, at the same pressure in the same bore size

Ok then, not to hi-jack the original intent of the thread. My 35Whelen, because of a long throat has a calculated 11% increase in effective case capacity. barnes #3 states a 250FXB top load runs 2578fps with 57gr RL-15. If I take 1/4 of 11 = 2.5 and X by 2578 , 2578fps x 102.5 = 2642 fps. I average 2684fps with the 250gr bullet, 61gr varget, and a 22" bbl as opposed to a 24"bbl in the barnes #3 book. This load is higher pressure and /or has more area under the curve thus improving velocity. Am i on the right track here? Used this hunting load since varget became available ,10-11 yrs ago.

Loaded to like pressures...the 7-08 is "lesser" than the 7x57.

My father had loaded for my brother's Ruger 77 7x57 for years...and was running right at 3000fps with 139 Hornadys in a 22" bbl. Never a moments worry from it either.

As to Hornady's light mag ammo...I don't know about the 7x57, but their .280 ammo is the real deal! The only box I ever bought ran the moly'd 139s at 3200fps (Three Two Zero Zero) in my 24" gun, and yeah, I checked the chrony with 2 other known loads that same day. And yeah, Hornady claims that still running at SAAMI 60K psi not 65Kpsi. As well, Nosler claims its .280 data with 57grs of R-19 at 3150fps in a 26" tube is at 60K psi.

And all the gun nuts said "AMEN"

The 7mm-08 only has slightly less powder capacity than the 7x57--about a couple of grains, which amounts to about 4% less. This means the 7x57 is (at least theoretically) capable of about 1% more muzzle velocity with the same bullet at the same pressure.

This is pretty much what different rounds of the same load will vary in velocity--so the 7mm-08 and 7x57 are pretty much the same thing. I have owned a couple of 7mm-08's and, using published data, really couldn't see any difference between the 7mm-08 and the 7x57. One load that really shot well--50 grains of IMR4350 and the 139 Hornady Spire Point--got over 2900 from a 22" barrel, right in line with Hodgdon's data, where I got the load. It is also no trick to get well over 2500 with a 175 from the 7mm-08, so anybody claiming it is less cartridge than the 7x57 is cuting things pretty fine.

Actually, even with factory loads the 7x57 doesn't come off too badly in comparison with the 7mm-08. A few years ago I chronographed several 7mm-08 140-grain factory loads in a 22" barreled Remington Mountain Rifle and none ran any faster than 2750 fps. More recently I chronographed 3 different 140-145 grain 7x57 factory loads in the 21" barrel of my 7x57 Serengeti, all advertised at 2650 fps or so. All at least matched that, and the Federal Premium load with 140 Partitiions broke 2700. So there isn't as much difference as the ammo catalogs would have us believe. Plus, there is still a 175-grain RN factory load available for the 7x57 (Federal), and nothing like that for the 7mm-08.

The fastest factory load I've ever chronographed in the 7x57 was indeed the Hornady Light Magnum, when they loaded it with the 139 Spire Point boattail (now it uses the 139 SST). In the 24" barrel of another custom rifle with a short throat, it went around 2950! Accuracy was very good too. But in most 22" barrels, with more normal throats, it doesn't beat the "standard" 140-145 grain stuff from Remington, Federal or Winchester by much.

I see somebody brought up the 10,000 mooses thread. Well, the biggest animal I have ever taken with the 7x57 was a bull moose in Alberta, with a 41" spread. Not the biggest moose in the world, but not the smallest either! it has also worked fine on wildebeest in Africa, and out to almost 400 yards on springbok and pronghorn. Not bad for a 115-year-old cartridge!

I have changed my thinking when comparing cartridges as "knit picking" is futile and manipulatable, if there is such a word.

The way I compare cartridges is to decide what animals can be taken with one cartridge or load, that the other cartridge cannot take with equal efficency.

This eliminates the borderline capabilities from "light on" but capable under the right conditions, to the comfortable capabilities of the heavier options.

When comparing any 7mm's over usual hunting ranges which generally means under 300yards or so, forget it, and buy the rifle you like most in whatever is availble.

The simple reality is that most 7mm users will hunt deer sized game and the 7's are all very capable. The bullet you choose and where you place it, will show up more difference that the cartridge case which is just the launching pad.

AGW

Boy! Interesting thread!......I haven't seen such lively debate since the OJ Simpson trial.You guys ARE GOOD!!

If you're "in love" with a certain cartridge,you will have confidence in said cartridge,and shoot it well.
You will place your shots better,and bring home more meat.
Us 7luvrs are strange birds indeed
Mike

Mike: I'm one of "youse guys". But I shoot the "original 7mm"...................................the 270



Well, ok the "second 7mm".......

I said that because the 7x57 has a larger case capacity than the 7-08.

Don

I chose the 7x57 caliber over the 270 for oklahoma because of the mild recoil. I use the hornady custom load in 140 spire point boat tail (not the SST). Five rounds routinely in one hole at 2700 ft per second which is downloaded. I do not need any more velocity than that. Kills deer fine. I am thinking about a change though to the 260 remington in the kimber 84m action simply because it is a lighter rifle. I would go with a 25x08 but it is only a handloading proposition.
I am not concerned about barrel life, but I think that the longer
case and neck of the 7x57 would promote longer barrel life ie.
the .243 vs. the 6mm remington.
The 7mm08 & the 7x57 can be chambered in the remington short actions, but the 7x57 cannot be chambered in some short actions. I have asked many handloaders if they find any problems loading the heavier bullets in the 7mm08 vs.the 7x57
and everyone says there is no problem.

So, the choice in either the 7mm08 or 7x57 seems to be just a matter of what action you choose.

My understanding is that the ammunition availability in foreign
countries for the 7mm mauser is better though.

The 7x57 will shoot higher sectional density bullets at a higher
velocity than a .308 and roughly the same as a 30-06. So, it
kicks less & makes less noise than the 30-06 and does about the same thing.

I have both! A fairly light Comercial FN 7x57 that I use when my shots will probably be 200yds are so and a 280 Heavy 26" Shaw barrelled Zastava Mauser that I use when the shots might exceede 200yds. The Fn is not loaded all that hot, the 280 is. Both are great for what I use them for. I can't imagine why anyone would buy a 7x57 and stoke it to the max, it's simply not what its ment for IMHO. capt david

Academy by my house carries a lot of 280 Remington Express ammo in 150 gr which is what I shoot in my 280's. I have never had a dry run when I went there to get some.

Last year they had 35 Whelen ammo but not this one either. I have to admit the manager at my local Academy could not understand the difference between standard velocity and high velocity 22 rimfire shells.

If I was in the market for a nice mild manerd deer cartridge, And i went shopping, and had narroed my choice to a 7mm08 7X57 and a .280, I,d just pick the rifle i liked best. Nothing in the deer woods you can do with one you cant to with the other.
Mule deer , mentions loading both to standard length , and I guess that gives you a good place to start, but most 7X57s have prety long throats, If your mag box is long enough, say on a CZ or a MDL 77 you can seat the bullet out and relly push the speeds up quite a bit.
I have never really seen the need to do this as I have an STW if I need more speed.
But I have seated out to iprove acuracy.
I think This gives 7X57 has an atribute not every body apreciates.
I like the extra room in the mag You can do alot of things till you finaly find a load your rifle likes.
I am going to try a cool little small ring 1936 mexican mauser out tommorow.
here the mag is short but the throat is long.
Its gonna be interesting to see how it shoots. I almost hope it won't.
It is a cool action to build a 6mm rem or a .257 Bob on...tj3006

If the rifle has a long throat, and is loaded to 60000 psi, the 7x57 will do just what a .280 normally will. That means right at 3000 with 140's, 2750-2800 fps with 160's and 2600 fps with 175's. That two-letter word 'if' is a big one however. I shoot one of these more than any rifle I own and have for thirty years or so, including elk, African game up to kudu, and the 160's at 2750 fps are a great easy shooting game killer. I have also seen the velocities vary as much as 200 fps between two rifles of varying throat lengths with the same ammo, so you have to watch what you're doing. It's just one of those cartridges that takes a little extra work but is worth it IMO. The 7mm-08 is virtually identical, or close enough no animal would notice, but the history of th e7x57 makes it far more interesting. It is my long-time favorite hunting cartridge and I will always have at least a couple of them.

I agree 100% even if I don't have your experience. I wanted a 7X57 for a long time but I also wanted a stainless/synthetic gun for all weather purposes. Well, being that I can't afford all the rifles that I want, I got a stainless 280 Remington. It'll darn sure match/exceed what I'd want a 7X57 to do and since I couldn't get an over the counter factory 7X57 in stainless, I went with the 280. I still have a soft spot for the old cartridge but...I went with what I could get for the money at the time. Hopefully, Mule Deer will get a moment of insanity and sell me his Serengeti Walkabout in 7X57 for a Stevens 200 price....but I'm not holding my breath

[quote=High_Brass
Hopefully, Mule Deer will get a moment of insanity and sell me his Serengeti Walkabout in 7X57 for a Stevens 200 price....but I'm not holding my breath [/quote]

"Dream along with me....."