Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Do you like the new 'modernized' cartridges?

Butt stock

I don’t know sickum…..

But people spend a considerable amount of time finding “ perfect loads” ?

So how could even a minuscule amount of benefit not help a younger person select a cartridge/ rifle?

Granted an ol fart ……( like me) can’t pencil an upgrade…….but some people reading this might.

Happy New Year!

Kinda like Mark Twain saying “ When I turned 21….my parents must’ve went to night school cuz they got ways smarter.”

I fell that way reading what Mule Deer has to say lately.

Thanks, Angus!

One of the reasons I signed up on the Campfire over 20 years ago is because it looked like a great place for finding out what readers were interested in--which in hunting-rifle ballistics has generally been smaller groups. (These days those who believe another 50-100 fps in muzzle velocity is more important can find new load data for free on the Internet.)

But there will always apparently be many who believe all progress in cartridge design (or anything else about rifles) ended years ago, generally when they were in their 30s....

John

U bet.

Like I told you years ago, a mentor of mine, ( a Silver Star awarded Army Sniper) has spoke highly of you for over a decade.

Happy New Year

I remember that! It was very nice of of you to tell me.

Happy New Year!

Thanks,
John

These are modern enough for me. Pictured from left are a 7mm Bullberry (based on a 30-30 case), a .300 Savage and the venerable 30-30 WCF. They represent some of my favorite Contender rifle chamberings.

Both the Savage and 30-30 cartridge designs are more than a century old.

The .300 Savage was -- to me -- well ahead of its time. Featuring a short, fat case with minimal body taper and a sharp shoulder, that same geometry is what bench rest and long range shooters have been migrating to over the past couple of decades.

Heck, even the plain 6.5x30-30 (aka 6.5 Bullberry) does all I could ever need.

And you're happy! That's the most important thing. Nice choices!

Is there a down side to being a rimmened cartridge?

I always wonder why the 30/40 krag didn’t get all kinda variation in caliber/ bore selection.

As someone who enjoys shooting single-shot falling-blocks, I really like rimmed cartridges (e.g. 303 British, 9.3x74r, 405 Winchester & 44 Magnum) in my No. 1's & 1885's since I'm loading, unloading & handling the cartridges individually. The rim makes a nice grip when pulling one out of the bullet holder on my belt especially with gloves.

So while the rimmed cartridges work great in revolvers, tubular magazines and breech-loaded rifles, I think they start losing some appeal when you begin loading them into a clip or magazine where they don't fit as well. You don't want the rim of a top cartridge to get behind the rim of the cartridge below it. Straight cartridges are less problematic in automatic weapons.

That's the limit of my personal experience. If rimmed cartridges suffer additional shortcomings then I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

When I had first started hunting years ago,
there was a man that went with the bunch
that would buy a new pawn shop 30/40 or
303 british every year, and buy enough ammo
to check it for accuracy and zero, and if it
didn't perform as expected, he'd find another. When he found one that worked as expected, he'd make
sure to have 10-15 rounds to hunt with, and
use that for the season. The week after the
season was done, the gun would be put up
for sale and he'd do the same thing each year
IIRC he got at least one deer every year

The glowing exception being a Krag. Pour the rounds in pointy end forward and close the lunch box. Scandinavian sorcery!

Based on my post & your reply, it might be obvious that I've never had the pleasure of shooting that particular round before. I learn something new every day. Recently I came across a really nice Winchester 1895 in 30-40 Krag that was very tempting. So many nice guns...but only a finite amount of room in my gun safe & money in my wallet.

I like these type of threads, I usually learn some oblique tidbit of information.
I also like single shot rifles , I can see the advantage of using a rimmed case. I also like seeing the new cartridge configurations- wildcats and new commercial stuff.
With all the new theories and proven calculations. Maybe , someone will bring Quantum Mechanics into the fray.
When I head out the door, however, hopeful of finding a 40" Bighorn / Thinhorn Ram, Old reliable is slung over my shoulder.
If needed, the chances are good I will find a box of it in the most remote of places, and even anemic factory stuff will print well on paper and Sheep are not tough to tip over.
My little old opinion.

Interesting trail this thread is. Per previous post I have no need for "new". The youngest cartridge I ever shot was the 5.56 back about 1969. Youngest I ever owned was a .44 Mag. You see, I'm first and foremost a stalker in the hunting fields and for the last half century all of my hunting has been in Floriduh and Georgia, with one minor adventure in Mississippi.

My flinter does just fine, offhand at 50 yards:


My buffalo gun does likewise at 100. Elbow rest, black powder, 530 grains of 30:1 and a tang sight:


Oddly enough, I have a .38-55 that is comfy at 100 yds, offhand. Also shooting lead (300 gr) and Lord Black.

I had a 1895 SRC in the Krag. It was to nice to really allow me to use it.

Then I got a 95 SRC in 30 Gov with a good butt pad. It was rough enough to use without regret.

So I sold the 1895.

Because I had all the brass/ ammo from the sale I bought a Krag. I am glad I sold that Winchester.


I wonder with a rim, if that somehow helps the firearm by reducing the amount of pressure inflicted on the action?

If you want to modernize a rimmed cartridge like the 30-40, buy a beater 303 and rebarrel it but use a 308 barrel. Don't bother with hard to find 30-40 brass. Ask the gunsmith to chamber it in 303 British. You'll have a great shooter for not too much money.

If you own an Encore, have MGM make you a 303 British but with a 308 barrel. You can use your 303 British dies, but swap out the expander with a 308 expander ball.



Though the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps had adopted limited numbers of smokeless powder and bolt-action rifles, the .30-40 was the first cartridge adopted by the US Army that was designed from the outset for smokeless powder. It was patterned after .303 British, to which it is very similar geometrically.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-40_Krag

John, this is my first encounter with a dreaded donut comment. Can you explain that to me?

Change that to a 300WSM............local pawn shop has a Montana Rifle Co. Rifle in 300WSM currently. Beautiful rifle, action smooth as a baby's behind, beautiful wood - very tempting. WSM's were all the rage 10 years ago and have all but disappeared now. Wonder if PRCs will be the same?

It's thicker brass around the base of the neck, which can result in higher pressures due to compressing around the bullet when a round's seated. Because it's not necessarily consistent from case to case, it can result in erratic accuracy due to varying velocity.

It can occur for several reasons, but the usual one is full-length resizing--which after several firings tends to push the thick brass of the shoulder into the base of the neck. But it can also be caused by necking up brass to a larger caliber, which results in the same thing--a "donut" of thicker brass at the base of the neck. Which is why when I was shooting a 6.5-06 a lot some years ago I made brass by necking down .270 Winchester cases, rather than necking up .25-06s.

But have also occasionally encountered it in new brass--which can be "cured" by either inside reaming of fired brass, or turning down the base of the neck in FL resized cases.

I had never heard of the dreaded donut either so after John replied I went out to Google Images to see if there were some photos. There weren't many.

A small donut forming on the left from brass being pushed up from the shoulder:


A less pronounced ring starting to form on the case on the right:


A cutaway showing a donut that has been reamed from the inside of the case leaving bright brass:

Should also mention there's an easy test for the donut, which has been mentioned on another thread lately: Insert a bullet into the neck of fired cases, and see if there's any resistance near the bottom of the neck.

I first encountered it in a very lightly used (3 shots) Remington 700 BDL .243 I purchased in 1974. It grouped very well, but after a few loadings of new brass I started to get erratic accuracy and occasional signs of higher pressure. Found the bullet-insertion test by Dean Grennell in one of the older Speer manuals. (If any of you remember Dean's articles, you're definitely a "mature" handloader....)