Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Measuring case head expansion

In a "subject" Model 700 .30-06 that I examined for an insurance company, the bolt's "solid ring of steel" around the head of the case broke around that much thinner ring of steel around the extractor. The steel there is just a bit thick for rolling a cigarette but rather thin for anything else (except maybe an X-Acto blade).<P>Debris flew and wild gas flowed. The shooter had a piece of metal removed from his eye. I didn't see it. The doctor had apparently discarded it. I didn't see any evidence of any obturation. Anywhere.<P>Another good theory blown to Hell.

Y'all all know that i dont know enough to want to argue about this so tell me what action is better than the rem as for as destructing in a manner that offers less danger to the shooter?The equivalent of crashworthiness in an airplane or car i guess is what im asking.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ken Howell:<BR><B><P><snip><P>Another good theory blown to Hell.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey Ken, you aren't supposed to be reading this thread any longer. Us specious speculators were supposed to be able to run wild and free without any regard for facts or the scientific method ;-)<P>As for actions that behave best, when Really Bad Things Happen (tm)? I believe the best action would be the one belonging to the guy next to you, rather than yours... A lot of folks swear by the 98 pattern Mauser though.<P>On a serious note, Ken, have you ever heard of or seen an action that had failed catostrophically? something on the order of all the locking lugs failing, or the locking shoulders in the action shearing? Thus sending the bolt speeding backwards much faster than you really wanted?<P>Regards,<BR>Scott<BR>

Gene -- As far as modern bolt actions are concerned, if one has a clear superiority over another I have not seen it conclusively demonstrated.<P>The current "pre-64" Winchester M70 handles escaping gas a little better than the real pre-64 by putting a gas baffle behind one of the locking lugs.<P>The Remington M700 vents the gas out the receiver ring. (That's what that little hole in the receiver ring is for.)<P>The Browning and Savage have essentially the same lock up as the M700, although the Browning uses three lugs instead of two.<P>The Ruger directs escaping gas down into the magazine well.<P>I guess that probably the Weatherby Mark V action will handle escaping gas as well as any and better than most.<P>If any of these designs are inherently stronger than the other, I haven't seen that conclusively demonstrated either. Still, a bolt that locks with lugs that are milled from the steel bar rather than brazed on would seem to me to be inherently stronger.<P>On the other hand, I have never heard of, much less seen, a Mauser-type bolt action that failed completely.<P>As an example, a gunsmith buddy of mine who lives in Michigan specializes is converting Mauser 98s into modern sporting rifles. One of the conversions he did was to a 270 Winchester. This particular rifle was inadvertantly dragged through some slush during an elk hunt, and the stuff froze solid in the barrel. When the hunter pulled the trigger nothing much happened that he was aware of, but the bolt was essentially welded shut. My gunsmith friend couldn't get the bolt opened either and had to remove the barrel. Ever seen a belted 270 Winchester case with a head diameter the size of the bolt face? A primer pocket so expanded that you could stick your little finger in it?

Yes, Scott, I have. It shed its lugs and handle, and the bolt body went into the shooter's face, from his eye socket down through his upper and lower jaws, broke his collar bone, and lodged inside the base of his neck.<P>All you have to do, to see the same thing, is to do what he did, as long as he did. I wouldn't, if I were you. But you're on your own. �o)<P>I also have here some of the pieces of a friend's once-nice custom FN Mauser that failed catastrophically when half the head of the case blew away under extremely high pressure and the escaping wild gas blew the receiver and stock to bits. My friend still has a piece of brass inside his face after having a larger piece surgically removed.<p>[This message has been edited by Ken Howell (edited April 30, 2001).]

Well actually, OK Shooter, they don't obturate the firing pin hole. They just let the spring stack up. Not enough gas get out to damage the interior of the action. And the 788 had a smaller hole to start with.

OK SHOOTER,much obliged for the answer.

I now stand corrected. Now I have heard of a Mauser-type bolt failing completely thanks to Dr. Howell. Ken, if I can find the time to make it back up to your part of the woods, I would like to see those pieces. Life has been entirely too peaceful lately, and I really do need something to induce nightmares.

OK SHOOTER,I dont have a recipie for inducing nightmares that doesnt include at least two ex-wives,and if you have the ingredients,you dont need the recipie!<P>I do have an idea which can disturb the peace:Go to one of these boards and post a "how do you etc. etc." The eruption which often results is - using my place as an illustration - akin to a chicken snake getting in the chicken house.THere's a lot of cackling going on which is confined to tiny minority of the critters around here and goes entirely un-noticed by the rest.GRIN.