Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Garmin first time out

Feinwerkbau 300S .177 pellet rifle.
I've had this thing for a very long time forgot how much fun it is.
Figured it would be a good place to start.
If it can handle .177 pellets it should be good to go.
It was.

Shot one group just messing around.
Then turned on the Garmin and set it on the bench.
It missed the first shot....
Oh boy.
Set the thing up on the box so it was more even with the bore.
It never missed a shot after that.


This thing is supposed to have a velocity of 630 fps.
But that was 30 years ago.
And I just grabbed some pellets .
Some kind of hunting pellets not sure.
Was more interested in getting it working.
And seeing how it worked.
Pretty simple.
Had the app on my phone and got it sinked up with my phone.
If I can do it .
Anyone can.

Seems pretty straight forward.

10 shot group at 30 yards.
I haven't shot this thing in years.
Its fun.
General impressions.
Danged handy.
Straight up easy to use.
I kinda don't like touching it.
Wish you could control it from the phone.
When it gets warmed up and I start testing my bench guns again I'll run a direct comparison against the tried and true Ohler model 33.
Which I consider the gold standard in accuracy in bullet speed measurement.






dave

Told ya so

Nice shooting.

A local shop has them priced at $500

I love mine. It hasn't missed a shot yet and, as you know, is super portable. They take up very little room in the range bag.

not knocking the new technology but what will it do that a good old-fashioned chronograph will not? I've always asked myself about the all the other ones it's already out for a while the Big Orange ones damn it forget the name now a friend of mine has one and I'm just trying to figure out the real advantage except maybe slightly more accurate with velocities..
labradar for the Big Orange ones that's it...

One thing it brings to the table is that it SHOULD never be hit by a bullet because the setup wasn't perfect...... if you shoot the Labrador or the Garmin, it's intentional.

Idholton,

I had problems with screens. The first was wind. The second was clouds vs sunshine. It was a pain in the butt. I gave away ($15) my old chronograph. I didn’t want to shoot the few days a month when the weather was perfect to measure velocity.
I have a Magnetospeed now. It’s pretty good. I have not had good luck using it with some lever actions with full magazines. I’d prefer to not have to shoot separately groups, sighting in, and measuring velocity etc. I know MD and Dirt Farmer have a way around that. I suppose I could add onto my shooting bench and build similar. But my luck, I’d shoot the chronograph. At any rate it would take extra time - time away from shooting.
I didn’t buy a Labradar because I wanted to measure 17 Hornet, high velocity 22 caliber and similar. Besides the extra price didn’t seem worth it.
From what I’ve read the new chronographs will cover all my needs. I don’t see a downside. I’m into classic rifles and cartridges, but classic electronic technology - not so much.
Now there seem to be two great options. If someone would want a reason to write a review “A” vs. “B” and get paid for it…
But even if the writer didn’t write that review, either option looks pretty good to me.

Biggest advantage, shared with MS and LR, is that no one has to stop shooting so you can set it up. Mine stays in my range bag, ready for use at any time. No screens, no cables, no stands other than the tiny tripod. Lighting conditions don’t matter. Setup takes maybe a minute.

Not a spreadsheet guy, but on an iPhone or iPad, the data can be exported directly into the Numbers app, including AVG, STD DEV, SPREAD, and your notes, plus the velocity and energy of course. No need to email anything.

# SPEED (FPS) Δ AVG (FPS) KE (FT-LB) POWER FACTOR (KGR⋅FT/S) TIME CLEAN BORE COLD BORE SHOT NOTES
1 2522.2 -15.9 2330.3 416.2 9:20:14 PM "
2 2574.8 36.8 2428.6 424.9 9:20:55 PM "
3 2548.4 10.3 2379.0 420.5 9:22:55 PM "
4 2522.2 -15.9 2330.3 416.2 9:23:36 PM "
5 2554.3 16.2 2389.9 421.5 9:37:46 PM "
6 2528.2 -9.9 2341.4 417.2 9:41:02 PM "
7 2572.4 34.3 2424.0 424.4 9:44:52 PM "
8 2536.4 -1.7 2356.6 418.5 9:45:52 PM "
9 2518.1 -20.0 2322.7 415.5 9:46:33 PM "
10 2490.9 -47.2 2272.8 411.0 9:47:05 PM "
11 2551.1 13.0 2383.9 420.9 9:47:42 PM "
12 2542.0 3.9 2367.0 419.4 9:49:25 PM "
13 2542.0 3.9 2366.9 419.4 9:50:15 PM "
14 2528.3 -9.8 2341.5 417.2 9:51:52 PM "
15 2536.5 -1.6 2356.8 418.5 1:54:35 PM "
16 2542.7 4.7 2368.4 419.6 1:55:09 PM "
17 2575.2 37.1 2429.3 424.9 1:56:15 PM "
18 2512.6 -25.4 2312.7 414.6 1:57:00 PM "
19 2534.8 -3.3 2353.7 418.2 1:57:42 PM "
20 2528.4 -9.7 2341.7 417.2 1:58:26 PM "
-
AVERAGE 2538.1
STD DEV 20.7
SPREAD 84.3
Session Note M70 EW MB 165gr NBT 44gr Varget Fed GM210M Win Brass
-
All shots included in the calculations

The above is a simple copy and paste from Numbers, so the columns got messed up, but in the app they display perfectly and can be printed out like any other spreadsheet.

Wind and light conditions can be a problem for sky screens.
I typically don't bother going out in high winds.
I've never had to many problems with lighting.
Found I can work around most of it provided it's not to dark.
When it's to dark to register a shot... It's to dark.
Busy public ranges can mess things up.
But the Garmin is very handy.
I've played with my buddies LR.
One buddies is excellent. Works every time.
The other is a POS and I wouldn't own it.
Figured I wait for something better .
And I'm thinking it's better.
If it will register.177 pellets.
With ease. And it does.
Only thing left for me is to dig out one of my speedsters.
Have a old 22 CHeetah that will run up close to 4300 fps
Be interesting to see how it does with that.
The real test will come when I run it side by side with the Ohler.
dave

Well be sure to let us know how it works when you stretch it out a bit.

I wonder about who else in the digital industry is working on competitors against the new Garmin device? The way those electronic/digital engineers hate to be one-upped by one of their own, and the way they work to impress each other (often to the detriment of simple Luddite souls like me), it shouldn't take long before one of them brings out an even smaller unit competitively priced to the Garmin. Or a unit that replicates the Garmin in size and function but at half the price. The question for a guy like me who desires to jump onto this bandwagon is not what else is in store rather when it's in store, and should I just get the Garmin and be done with it.

Well what you buy today is already obsolete. They will sit back and wait till the sales start dwindling then roll out something different that has been on the schedule for a couple years. Just look at the Garmin out 30 -60 days and then LR rolls out something new and an upgrade in software for the old. They had those just sitting there till pushed in a corner. Rule of thumb hardware life cycle is 2-3 years. Software 90 days or 1 year at best before the latest and greatest rolls out.

I’ve seen a few places running them at $100 off lately.

Thinking my days of this type of testing are over.
dave

I have borrowed a couple different 33's over the years. Mainly to test the chronograph that I own at the time. Or when I wanted some CORRECT Velocity Numbers. The Ohler 33 is accurate, but a real pain to Set Up, Transport, and Store.
My Competition Electronics Chronograph works fair. I have a multiplier of 1.012 to correct it to an Ohler 33. Apparently that is within Specifications, and Competition Electronics would not calibrate it. Or they cannot calibrate it, I am not sure which. They do make repairs. I broke a 9V Battery wire off inside the case, and sent it in for repair. For an Old School Chronograph it is not a bad option.

When we replaced the concrete bench tops on the 200 yard Range, I relocated an old bench top to D Bay "A Big Handgun Bay". I located the Bench on the right corner out of the road. Normally this Bay is open to chronograph in. This took care of bothering other people on the Rifle Range. However all that you can do is chronograph. The Garman will allow you to shoot groups or zero while getting velocity numbers. No need to be in front of the Bench Line setting up your unit bothering other shooters.

Money Savings using the Garmin.
I am working with a 22 ARC at the moment. I am buying Factory Ammunition so far to get Brass. We are talking $1.65 a shot for the Cheap Black Box. The ability to Zero while Chronographing Loads at the same time saves on Ammunition Costs. You can check Velocity while shooting targets at any distance on the range. The ability to have velocity numbers covering the entire range session would give you more data to work with. An example would be to Check Zero at 100 Yards. Then Check your Drop Chart Data at 200, 300, 400, etc. Instead of a Five Shot Chronograph session you now have a 20> shot chronograph session for a more accurate set of numbers.

My local dealer has a bunch of them in stock, as of last week anyway. The plan is to pick one up Monday after our Contractor gets done spreading rock on the 200 yard Range. They got about half of the rock down Friday, so Four Hours tops to finish it, I would think. Three of us are going together to buy the unit, and store it at the Range.

I have used a buddies Garmin, and I am sold on it.

Bob R

Ran mine for the first time yesterday. Wow does this thing work! Super easy and never missed a shot from 3 different AR's. Color me impressed.......................

New and old methods both tell you the speed of a bullet, but the new ones beat the old ones hands down for ease of use and practicality on a club or public range.

For the old ones, you have to go forward of the firing line to set up the screens. That's OK if you can do it quickly, but about half of the chronograph users I've seen want to dick around for 20 minutes trying to get it just right while everyone else waits. On the bright side, you can shoot for groups AND get speeds at the same time if it's set up properly, but everyone else will hate you for wasting their time. And that's if everything goes well the first time, which is not promised.

An old-school chronograph can be inconsistent or not work at all on gloomy days, and we get a lot of those around here. If you're testing handloads, then you either have to load a bunch of the same stuff in case the chrono misses a shot or you come back another time and try again. The fix is to adjust the position of the screens, so again you're going forward to fiddle while other people wait.

With some cartridges and loads, an old-school chronograph will read muzzle blast instead of the bullet, so you either have to set up a baffle (on its own tripod) and/or move the screens farther downrange. This basically triples the amount of fiddling around required downrange. None of this is immediately obvious so you spend a lot of time and ammo figuring out what's wrong. Best of all, there's always the chance of putting a bullet through it.

The MagnetoSpeed is a massive improvement over old chronographs. But it's sensitive to the position on the rifle and POI shifts when you strap it on to the barrel. The attachment system is beyond lame, and I've seen one slip enough that muzzle blast cut the webbing that holds it on the rifle. You can also forget shooting for groups with it in place and it doesn't work on handguns. On the bright side, they're small, they're light, and you can't put a bullet through one.

The Labradar avoids all of that, but it's the size of a suitcase. The Garmin seems to have all of the advantages of a Labradar but it's a fraction of the size.

I'm definitely interested.


Okie John

I’ve never had that many issues with the model 33.
Lighting issues are easily solved.
On heavy overcast days if it starts acting up . You just take the tops off the screens.
Black magic marker on the bullets works wonders.
As I said above. If it’s too dark to register. It’s just to dark. That being said I have gained minutes of shooting time at the end of the day by removing the tops off of my screens.
Alignment of the screens is a snap.
See the pic of my laser up top. Takes no time at all to set up this way.
Cheep magnetic bore sight laser.
If you notice I run my screens with a 10 foot spacing.
Doubles the accuracy of the measurement taken. It’s in the book.
I bought mine in 1987 after I had Nelson Berger build me a 22cheetah and I wanted to know just how fast it actually was.
Anytime I’ve had an issue,very few and far between.Ohler was never a problem to get support
The Garmin is going to make my testing more streamlined, no dought at all.
I’m still going to be testing the Garmin against my 33 for accuracy.
Time will tell.

dave

I’m still going to be testing the Garmin against my 33 for accuracy.

Ah, but how can you be really sure which one is giving you the straight poop?

😜Just messing with you. For me, any of them are gonna be close enough. Heading out tomorrow to sight in a couple and see if I’ve been living in a fantasy world regarding some of my handloads at he same time. Just packed up some stuff and still can’t believe how tiny the case holding the Garmin is.

You're not wrong. Just because two screens are used to make two measurements that agree within a given measurement uncertainty, that doesn't mean that they don't have the same calibration error.

I've had my 35P for 30 years. Loved their service.
When I checked my new Garmin against the 35P I noted the Garmin always read higher velocities than the Oehler - some significantly higher. Tested the Garmin against another Garmin, a Labradar, and a Magnetospeed. My Garmin was spot on with all three of those. Getting the screens perfectly spaced is obviously the long pole in the tent with an Oehler and it's looking like mine's been off for three decades, and I just never knew. Maybe that's why it's almost always taken a little more powder than shown in the books to reach the "correct" velocity? I'm probably lucky to be alive...LOL.

Cheers,
Rex

Another advantage of the Garmin is just placing it on the bench next too you, then shooting at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, or more yards and it picks up all the shots if its aimed in a general direction. With my Ohler, I could shoot at any of those ranges but if the targets were not perfectly aligned in the window/triangles, I couldn't shoot through it, so I couldn't continue to measure velocity, etc.
So, I can zero at 100 and then move the barrel of the rifle in different directions downrange to shoot targets, steel, etc at extended ranges and it still picks up shots, so I get a greater number of shots to average velocity, SD/ES.

I see this as being one of the Garmin's biggest advantages. A lot of folks don't want to "waste" 10 rounds over the chronograph. Now you can clock every shot and get a much clearer idea of actual speeds.


Okie John

For sure. It is nice just to turn it on and let it run then collect the data.

The Garmin is a better mouse trap. I have owned several screen type chronos (ProChrony & a Folding one -forgot name) and a Magnetospeed. The Garmin is so much handier that I sold all the others and have zero inclination to replace them. The Garmins are expensive but worth it for me.

Did you say you needed an app on your phone to make this thing work?

No, it'll store and display on the unit. The phone is just a way to look at the data later on if you want. It'll work fine without a phone.



Not a great picture but the readings are displayed on the unit.

If you're curios to just how small it is, here it is next to a Zippo...

No reason to not chronograph everything now.
dave

Really good stuff, super easy to use! Reinforces the phrase, "good things come in small packages!"

When I first started my 1000 competitions.
I was pretty anal about getting my drops right.
Had a bench gun that in good conditions would routinely shoot under 1.5 at 500 yards.
Wanted my drops to be "good".
I measured everything.
Used the Berger program .
Carefully chronographed the load.
My drops from 850 to a grand with the PMII were so close that no other adjustments were necessary.
I kinda figured my chronograph numbers had to be pretty darn close,.
Will see how good the Garmin is.
These days I don't worrie about drops much at all.
For what we are doing.
20 at 850
22 at 900
24 at 950
And 26 at 1000 is close enough that your in the ball park .
Good enough to see your hit close to the swinger and click to the hit from there.
Non issue from 6mm to 30 cal...



Dave

Like to know what case that is????

After reading all these threads about the Garmin all I can say:
“There goes another $600!”
I’ll pick one up sometime later this year.

Got it from Amazon. It is an Evergreen brand case.

Thanks!

Found this one on eBay, guy laser cuts the foam for it too.



As pointed out in this thread, and others, the Garmin is a great tool. Take care of it!

No problem.


Nice case as well.

[bleep] it. Life is to short not to have good tools. Ordered a unit today. Not much choice other than to toss out my old one. Easy come easy go.

You won’t regret it.
dave

Did you use it on a gun with a muzzle break?

MM

Been wondering why there have been so many lab radars for sale in the classifieds...this looks way better.

I been following threads like this for a month or so. The Garmin is an instant game changer and overnight has rendered every chrono with screens obsolete.
Sure, the screen models may still work but who in the hell would want to go thru the hassle to set them up and shoot thru them?

The LabRadar did that years ago.

The Garmin unit?

With far too much baggage. Both literally and figuratively. Lots of guys that couldn’t quite pull the trigger on the Labradar took no time at all to hand over folding money for a Garmin. What an easy button.

No sir .
Have not run it on any of bench guns as of yet.
But I will.
All my bench guns have brakes.
Theres a interesting video on 6mm BR by fclass John about the first time he tried the LR.
Basically..
First few times out was a disaster thing was pretty much useless..
Think he sold his..
Later on he bought another one and put an inertia trigger on it.
Worked perfectly with the inertia trigger. Something else to buy..
One of the guys on my bench bought a LR.
First time I saw it I told him to send it back.
Almost totally useless.
Later on he bought an inertia trigger as well seem to solve most of the issues.
Other guy on my bench bought a LR..
Worked out of the box.
No issues of any kind and no inertia trigger. Thing just works.
I'm still glad I waited.

dave

I have been using the Garmin with my 300 RUM and brake. Not a hiccup. Fold the legs out, turn it on, point it generally downrange, shoot your rounds. From 17 WSM to 300 RUM so far and not a missed shot. I like it alot.

There’s more to it than just the products themselves. LR was the first mover in the Doppler chrono market, and now that the early adopters have provided feedback, Garmin is capitalizing on mainstream adoption. Garmin beat LR to the punch on seemingly similar next-gen products.

My LR doesn’t come with enough baggage that I’m rushing out to sell it for a still largely unproven product. That day may come, but we’ll see how things unfold.

Having lots of fun using mine.....from arrows, .22 cal pellets, up to and including a 7mag, suppressed/not suppressed, doesn't matter. It never misses a shot. Easy interface with app, download to spreadsheet.....lots and lots to love about it.

Thanks, that's what I was asking about.
I don't use breaks much on hunting rifles, but I have them on most of my AR's.

MM

No issues with AR's at all. They sit back quite alot (15") from the muzzle and about 5-7" to the side so they couldn't care less about blast. I have just put it wherever and it just tracks. Same for pistols. I have set it on the bench next to where I am standing and it still tracks them fine as well.

Do I understand correctly that the Garmin constantly sends out waves rather than waiting for a trigger to start sending?

I think that is the case WT. Mine will let you know if you move it while it is waiting for a shot.

I don't know about 'waves'. I think it's 'magic'....

Great. Now something else I gotta buy.......

I'm gonna end up with one too.

It stinks to pay the 600 bucks (a little less if you get the Vet Discount from Grafs) but man, once you start using it, you'll quickly forget. I enjoy chrono'ing ammo nowadays it is just no trouble anymore and all the data sticks with your phone, so you can look stuff over when you get home.

I need a new phone too damn it. lol. Next thing you know, you bought their watch with the Applied Ballistics software too - walking Radio Shack!

Nice thing is you don't actually need to use a phone with the Garmin if you don't want. It displays everything on the screen and can be used stand alone.

Well, the one bad thing about the Garmin is that it tells the truth, LOL. I had purchased some Winchester WXR powder and found some load data for the .280 Rem. I used this as a starting place for my 7x64 and 150 partitions and fired a few by the Garmin this morning only to learn they are traveling about 2500 fps. Good news is the RL19 with 140 TTSX is 2890 and a nice group, but I think I can bump it a little. 7x57 and 140 partitions is 2780 which is spot on with the Nosler book. My question is, how many shots do you need to feel comfortable with the velocity of your handloads? Obviously more is better statistically, but practically?

Is the Garmin, or any radar based chrono, prone to pick up shots from other shooters on the firing line? If so, any way to mitigate?

Just me, but I wanna see 10 rounds for an average.

When my matches start in May.
I'm going to find out.
I'll have it mounted to my seb rest
And for the first time ever Chrono during a match.
Dave

I'm always looking for the least amount of vertical on the target at 500 yards.
Always good to have low SDs.
But ultimately your going to run what ever shoots the best at yardage.
Regardless of Chrono numbers.....


dave

quote=rost495]
What I will state is that almost every last time I was shooting at 600 yards and watched the chrono the load that produced the lowest ES and SD and then went and looked at the holes in the paper I was never happy. The lowest ES and SD just never produced best accuracy.
.[/quote]
+1
dave

Some time back, I was shooting at one end of the bench, someone running an LR at the other, maybe 12-15’ apart. He was picking up my shots at times. Since then, I’ve read that it might be an aiming issue or other operator problem. Dunno.

Haven’t had anyone close by me when using my Garmin yet.

I haven’t used the Garmin next to other shooters yet, but I’ve never had a problem with the LR picking up shots from other shooters. Of course, there are sensitivity settings on the LR to remedy that if it’s a problem.

I've used mine with shooters on the adjacent bench and zero problems. Never misses my shots, never picks up theirs.
Rex

I took mine to an indoor range a couple weeks ago. Another shooter was in the lane to my left. I was shooting my 357 and getting good readings. Once, while I was reloading, the guy next to me fired off a shot. I happened to look at the Garmin. The screen had that little circle thing going that it does as it is "thinking ". It never showed a velocity, just quit thinking. When I looked closer at the Garmin, it was ever so slightly pointed to the left. I squared it up with my shooting lane and it was good to go.
I shot at an indoor range in KC in December and used the Garmin with shooters on both sides of me and had no problems.

Thank yall for the responses, sounds like a garmin is in my future. Interested to see how it compares to Dave's ohler.

Playing with the app.
Scotty has been sending me his screen shots for awhile now.
Thought I'd try it.
Guess I don't need to write down anything anymore.



dave

dave

Last week I was packing up at the range and another shooter noticed me taking my Garmin apart and asked what it was. When I told him, he was stunned. Since he was still shooting, I set it up next to his position and told him to fire away. He asked what had to be done to get it aligned, and I said, you turn it on and set it beside your rifle. He had owned a Labradar but sold it as it was big and had a few issues for him. Another guy chimed in about also having a Garmin and how much he liked it.

Definitely sold at least one more that day!

Pretty freaken handy.
And this was from my first time out.
I'm going to make up a bar out aluminum and mount it to the top of my seb rest.
dave

What's the best price folks are seeing for these? Amazon is showing $587.90 but the best I found so far is Walmart's website at $546.84.

Oh BS.
Have owned a LR for going on 5 years. Have had no problem with muzzle brakes including an 338WM. Although I do move the unit an extra 8-10” from the muzzle brake equipped rifles and turn the sensitivity down.

My LR catches most (but not all) 22 cal bullets, too.

My 3 ring binder does a great job storing load data and velocity, plus targets, so admittedly I couldn’t care less about Bluetoothing to my phone, Starlink, or Ukrainian drones…..

And this breathless first adopter thread of Tesla owners appears to be pointedly ignoring the new LRLX that will allow the user to return to previous shot strings and enter new shots—a significant deficiency in both the LRV1 and Garmin, arguably rendering them both obsolete…….

Why?.....

I think he means - taking it out of the case/setting up or breaking it down and putting away. They come with those little tripods right?

Did you jump on it? Showing $586.54 now.

First video I've seen of the two side by side.

Sorry to hear that about your LR.
dave

😉

More importantly, the breathless first adopter Tesla owners can fit the Garmin in the pocket of their skinny pants.

It’s a game changer!

My Garmin has been great from 22 Magnum up through 22-250 so far.



Used it for the K-Hornet yesterday, never misses a beat.





Had a couple leftover shots for the ML from this past season, so I checked them while I was out.



Did some speed/pressure checks with the Mashburn and 172 Absolute Hammers in the Mashburn..



Put a bunch of rounds through it with the 17 WSM testing out a new lot of ammo and again, never missed a shot.

No, unfortunately I had some large unplanned expenses in February so was only window shopping for when the bank account recovers.

Amazon is back up to $599.99 this morning which appears to be the standard. That's their cheapest price, they're showing a lot of them with prices going up from there. This is the first time I'd been shopping for one, obviously the price at the big retailers will fluctuate daily with instant supply and demand calculations. Oh well, wasn't going to buy this month anyway so will just keep an eye on things.

It's on my list

You won't be disappointed Colorado.
If you doing 17 or 22 calibers the unit is Superior to LR in every way.
The phone app is just icing on the cake.
dave

Nice ..
No more notebooks.


dave
.

Right on. It's pretty fun and entertaining with arrows as well.

Sounds fun.
Now that I know it does .177 pellets.
I was thinking a wrist rocket.
Ha.


dave

seems like a great unit but i wish some that has a Garmin would shoot a 17 Remington cartridge rifle that shoots 4,000 FPS and lets us know how well the Garmin works with that little fast bullet ? thank you ,Pete53

I think Don knows that, but he has his IIRC in a case that’s big enough to hold it assembled. Mine goes in a small camera case with a separate pocket on the front for the tripod, and fits neatly in my smallish range bag.