24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
P
PJ65 Offline OP
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
Will be bringing home a new lab pup at the end of the month. Will be the first time training a pup from the ground up as a hunting dog. She will be used for upland and waterfowl. Any books or DVDs that you would recommend? Thanks!

GB1

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 383
Likes: 2
T
Campfire Member
Online Content
Campfire Member
T
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 383
Likes: 2
...PJ65: WATER DOG by Richard A. Wolters would be a good start, IMO.

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,023
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,023
Originally Posted by TSIBINDI
...PJ65: WATER DOG by Richard A. Wolters would be a good start, IMO.

I agree with this book, BUT DO NOT follow his advice on gun training, such as firing a gun behind the pup while it is eating!!!

He is also a old timer the believes in taking a belt to a dog. Yes it is in the book.


With all this said his basics are spot on and easy to follow.


When the tailgate drops the BS stops.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 815
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 815
Wolters' books are great, you can glean good tidbits and leave what doesn't fit.

There's an old one by a guy called Duffey, I think it's "Hunting Dog Know How" that really has some good insight into getting into a dog's head and thinking like they do.

There are lots of trainers on youtube, some are good, some are just trying to get views, but there are tidbits to be taken or left, that can get you into the right frame of mind.

There's a guy on youtube named Stoney who really understands dogs... but he treat-trains, which I don't like at all. (You can adapt it to praise training if you're connected to your dog.)

I actually really like Caesar Milan, he really understands the way a dog's brain works. You have to adapt his ideas to field training, and in some cases you have to remember he's trying to be politically correct, but he genuinely understands dog psychology.

Once you get the solid footing (of understanding your dog's way of thinking, and your place in its world) underneath you, then you're communicating. When you're communicating, it gets really easy. You see the que's. You see when they understand, and you jump on it and build. It's very fun! But you have to be communicating first.

Last edited by rainshadow1; 02/06/24.

- - Steve
Rainshadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
www.rain-shadow.com

Mountain Lion Calling products, instruction, & stories!

Labrador Retrievers - https://rainshadowlabradors.com
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 1
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,853
Likes: 1
This right here ^^^^^

Tidbits...dogs are like wives and kids...what works on one might or might not work for the next. They're all different. So take advice from multiple places and use what works for YOUR dog

Last edited by BKinSD; 02/06/24.

"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
IC B2

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
P
PJ65 Offline OP
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
Thanks guys. This gives me a starting point

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,736
Likes: 9
R
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
R
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,736
Likes: 9
Perfect start/perfect finish dvd's are well regarded.


"The Ballpark burgers were free, why not eat them?"
- Wabi-
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,169
Likes: 19
W
WMR Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,169
Likes: 19
From Wolters, I like Game Dog. I had the book and the video. I also like Ken Roebuck and have his book and DVD. My favorite overall is Robert Milner from Duckhill Kennels. He’s now a big proponent of reward based training. The two labs in my house tonight came from his kennel. He’s got lots of stuff available online for view.

Decide what you want in a dog, then plan and train to get there. I want a gun dog, not a field trial dog. Their skills overlap but are not the same. I do think that most casual dog guys set their expectations too low. A good dog is capable of performing at a pretty high level.

Also, get used to the idea of spending some money in the process. Obedience classes, professional training help and buying birds during training are all good investments. Be consistent and persistent and enjoy the process. Congratulations on your new dog.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,723
Likes: 2
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,723
Likes: 2
To desensitize a young dog to gunshots I have taken many to a gun range as a puppy. Keep the windows closed. I hold the young pup close and reassure them whispering calm. I do this multiple times allowing more noise into the vehicle for the pup to acclimatize or assimilate if you wish. Eventually I introduce the pup to closer association of the firearm reports. NEVER close up initially. After a few weeks I introduce wings, tails and more with distant firearm reports. This has worked well for over 40 years of working dogs. Hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy your new puppy. MTG


Vena dura, ocyus occide, excusas non offer!
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 5
L
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
L
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by WMR
From Wolters, I like Game Dog. I had the book and the video. I also like Ken Roebuck and have his book and DVD. My favorite overall is Robert Milner from Duckhill Kennels. He’s now a big proponent of reward based training. The two labs in my house tonight came from his kennel. He’s got lots of stuff available online for view.

Decide what you want in a dog, then plan and train to get there. I want a gun dog, not a field trial dog. Their skills overlap but are not the same. I do think that most casual dog guys set their expectations too low. A good dog is capable of performing at a pretty high level.

Also, get used to the idea of spending some money in the process. Obedience classes, professional training help and buying birds during training are all good investments. Be consistent and persistent and enjoy the process. Congratulations on your new dog.
+1 re Milner. I've had VERY good results using his methods.

IC B3

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,009
Likes: 80
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,009
Likes: 80
Read and follow Water Dog for a perfectly serviceable hunting dog.

If the dog has good natural retrieving instincts and you don’t screw him up along the way, you’ll have a great friend that loves to please you and lives to hunt and retrieve

👍🏼


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,938
Likes: 8
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,938
Likes: 8
I have an airedale, not the same as a lab, but I feel as though I have done a decent job with her considering shes my first used for this type of hunting.
She is killer on dove.
She does very well on upland game, considering she is a flusher and does not have the nose/pointing of a GSP etc.
She is hit or miss on ducks. She is young, sometimes she acts like it, others she acts like a seasoned veteran.

I started with a 22 and low level blanks. 50 yards out while playing fetch with her. Then 40, 30, 21, 10, and then right next to her.
Then I went to mid level blanks, then high level.

Finally after 2 month so blanks, I started the same routine with the 20 gauge and then the 12. She is not bothered by gun shots at all, will sit with right next to me for doves, and walks at heel when we jump duck tanks. No gun sound frightens her, and she will mark a downed bird and retrieve it. She even hit a barb wire fence at full tilt to retrieve a downed chuckar in training. Not a good thing, I know but she was ON that bird and brought it to hand, as the trainer and I checked her out. He was peeling his bag off, anticipating first aid as she was on her way back to us. Luckily, she was good to go and went on to find the next bird with out any hesitation.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 80
B
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
B
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 80
Great discussion! I am awaiting the pending adoption of a rescue English Setter, and have been reviewing my dog book shelf. She will not hunt because we are pretty much past doing it ourselves. Regarding treat-training, a book titled Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson had a lot to say about it. To build rapport initially treat training can accelerate learning, then it also gives you something tangible to "take away" by not giving treat when the desired response is faulty. A sort of reprimand w/o yelling etc. Donaldson recommends a phrase such as "Ohhh, Too Bad!" when not giving the reward. When desired responses are getting consistent, try graduallly skipping reward treats and phasing them out. Keep up the praise though! This is regarding basic obedience especially Recall, to my way of thinking the most important command. I also have several of Wolter's books, well worth reading if you can separate out some of the dated information.


"Mama tried..."
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,500
Likes: 10
J
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,500
Likes: 10
Name a dog in any retriever games trained using Richard A. Wolters method……

Can you make a meat dog using his methods? Yes
But the training world has evolved, and Richard A. Wolters methods have been surpassed long ago.


Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 304
T
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
T
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 304
If you have good genetics/traits to start with and dog came from hunting family, you shouldn't have to break a dog to a gun going off. Just get it use to loud noises like bagging two pots together and give it something to take interest in. I've had good GSP and GSP/setter crosses didn't have to go through gun banging to break them in.
Now I run coyote hounds (running Walkers) and teach them just basic commands like you do a bird dog and the hunting part just comes naturally. One thing I had to keep in mind is where I get my dogs from when I first started as some are gun broke from birth and some crosses are not. The dogs are bred to run and catch, and others bred to just run and bay up, so you pick the cross that fits your style of hunting. You need to get a dog use to gun fire then put something of interest in front of it and just shoot dam gun that's quickest way, and after you shoot give dog lots of praise if it doesn't run. If it runs, then use a leash when shooting and still give praise after. A dog needs to learn you are there to cover its back to anything new.

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
P
PJ65 Offline OP
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
So an update on the pup. She is doing pretty good. 4 months old and we have sit, stay, come , lay , and place down pretty good. She has been introduced to dead pigeons and will retrieve them, but likes to maul them up a little. She is easily distracted, and often times going to a different environment doesn't mind as well as back home in the pasture. She is steady around gunfire, including the 12 gauge. She will go like hell to retrieve a launcher bumper, but is not really interested in hand thrown bumpers. I think she will grow out of it, any suggestions or thoughts? Been using Water Dog, Dokkens book, 10 Minute retriever, and the WildRose kennels DVD, for reference

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,719
Likes: 2
4
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
4
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,719
Likes: 2
Sounds like you've done a lot right. At four months you can expect occasional backsliding, especially in a new environment. Stay with it. You've got a good foundation and IMO based on that she'll get better and better over time as you learn what works with her and she learns what you want.

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
P
PJ65 Offline OP
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
P
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by 43Shooter
Sounds like you've done a lot right. At four months you can expect occasional backsliding, especially in a new environment. Stay with it. You've got a good foundation and IMO based on that she'll get better and better over time as you learn what works with her and she learns what you want.
Thanks for the advice. This is the first pup I have trained and want to do it right. Thoughts on force fetch?

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,719
Likes: 2
4
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
4
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,719
Likes: 2
You'll probably get different opinions on this but at four months I'd give her every chance and plenty of time to not need it by trying other methods. It would be a last resort.

Last edited by 43Shooter; 04/28/24.
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,169
Likes: 19
W
WMR Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,169
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by PJ65
So an update on the pup. She is doing pretty good. 4 months old and we have sit, stay, come , lay , and place down pretty good. She has been introduced to dead pigeons and will retrieve them, but likes to maul them up a little. She is easily distracted, and often times going to a different environment doesn't mind as well as back home in the pasture. She is steady around gunfire, including the 12 gauge. She will go like hell to retrieve a launcher bumper, but is not really interested in hand thrown bumpers. I think she will grow out of it, any suggestions or thoughts? Been using Water Dog, Dokkens book, 10 Minute retriever, and the WildRose kennels DVD, for reference

Just reading between the lines, but it sounds like maybe you’re putting a bit of pressure on yourself. A 4 month old dog accustomed to the sound of a blank pistol is fine for me. Lots of nonretrieves while sitting, with a few retrieves for reward is my approach. A dog that’s 100% for quick recall on command or whistle will make everyone’s life easier. Calm, consistent training will pay off. A small success is better than a spectacular failure. I haven’t watched the Wildrose dvd’s, but suspect they are good. Oh yea, canvas bumpers beat plastic ones by a mile.

Force fetch? Talk about a can of worms. Duck and cover once THAT discussion starts. 😳

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24



342 members (163bc, 160user, 1OntarioJim, 1lesfox, 09wingates, 12344mag, 34 invisible), 11,296 guests, and 866 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,197,633
Posts18,593,175
Members74,125
Most Online21,066
May 26th, 2024


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.150s Queries: 54 (0.055s) Memory: 0.9079 MB (Peak: 1.0093 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-06-19 11:42:24 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS