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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,123 Likes: 2 |
Afognak is. Much harder than you think. I've deer hunted there and the elk we saw would have taken 2 guys 4 or 5 days to get out. There are spots where i have seen elk in easy country ( Seal Bay) but a lot of it is really steep and nasty. A Rosey is a big, big animal coupled with arguably the meanest brown bears in Alaska its not a walk in the park.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Ranger
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Afognak is. Much harder than you think. I've deer hunted there and the elk we saw would have taken 2 guys 4 or 5 days to get out. There are spots where i have seen elk in easy country ( Seal Bay) but a lot of it is really steep and nasty. A Rosey is a big, big animal coupled with arguably the meanest brown bears in Alaska its not a walk in the park. Yeah having brown bears can't make that any less stressful. I need an AK elk one of these years, just trying to figure out the least painful way to do it.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
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One thing that drives me nuts about people applying, resident or not, are those that apply just to apply with little intention to hunt the tag if drawn. It may be legal and a person's right, but it still annoys the hell out of me.
I think of the 15 DE711 tags, only 11 actually hunted it in 2023, and that was more than normal. Quite often it is closer to half. Family and health emergencies aside, I find that way more annoying than non-residents drawing hard tags. Why even apply if you're not dead serious about trying? All you're doing is diluting draw odds. I suspect some start researching how physically tough some of the hunts are after they draw and decide it isn't worth it. Others apply just in case they 'feel like going, if they draw'. I wish the YouTube videos really emphasized how physically demanding some hunts are, and especially the Alaskan elk hunts.
It is what it is, I guess. Other western states are just as bad. Those with tags just like that skew the hell out of success ratios that the biologists and board use at times to sway seasons etc... its nuts, stupid, etc... Unfortunately Youtube, like any filming, only generally shows the good things. No one wants to see me crawling into a wet sleeping bag with wet clothes After taking my rain gear and waders off and being cold most of the night and knowing there are 10 more days ahead and no easy way to get dry or relief etc... I can only imagine the elk hunt after reading some about it. No way I'd even apply. Would be a waste of my time and a waste of the tag. A friend and I drew Afongnak in 2018, and pulled two mature bulls out. It was an absolute ball buster. That was one of the years only about half of those with a permit even attempted it. You don't actually know how many people attempted it. And why are you complaining? If everyone hunted it you would see people. You want to see people on your hunt? I wouldn't call afognak a "ball buster" On the level of difficulty it would be a 3 out of 10. Maybe a 2. Afognak and raspberry elk hunts should be reserved for old people or locals of kodiak etc You’re a feisty one…and sure come up with a lot of odd (and wrong) ‘conclusions’. I’ve noticed that about you on a couple of threads now. I could (re) find how many attempted that particular hunt that year, if I cared to. It is public info. There were 3 other camps that I saw on the same lake, and had a guy shoot a rag bull out from under me (which was a blessing in disguise). No biggie as none of those other hunters went where they needed to, to get the herd bulls. My buddy and I did. It seems our definition of ‘butt hurt’ differs too, and that’s OK. I have no need for a leftover tag right now, in any state. I’ll have plenty of tags as is and am struggling to get my fall planned out without even knowing what draws I may have coming from other states. I noticed you didn’t even attempt to address my points…and just came up with more accusations. Rock on Eddie, I guess.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
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Afognak is. Much harder than you think. I've deer hunted there and the elk we saw would have taken 2 guys 4 or 5 days to get out. There are spots where i have seen elk in easy country ( Seal Bay) but a lot of it is really steep and nasty. A Rosey is a big, big animal coupled with arguably the meanest brown bears in Alaska its not a walk in the park. It took us 5 days to get those 2 Roosevelt bulls no more than about 2 miles on NW Afongak. Had bear problems (of course) to add to the brush, rain and bug fun. By comparison, the 2 bull moose we spent 10 days packing out of the Togiak this last year were ‘easier’. Afognak is a damn mess, for multiple reasons.I love it…
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Joined: Mar 2022
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Campfire Member
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Afognak is. Much harder than you think. I've deer hunted there and the elk we saw would have taken 2 guys 4 or 5 days to get out. There are spots where i have seen elk in easy country ( Seal Bay) but a lot of it is really steep and nasty. A Rosey is a big, big animal coupled with arguably the meanest brown bears in Alaska its not a walk in the park. 3/10 at best for difficulty.
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Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 157
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2022
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It took us 5 days to get those 2 Roosevelt bulls no more than about 2 miles on NW Afongak. Had bear problems (of course) to add to the brush, rain and bug fun. By comparison, the 2 bull moose we spent 10 days packing out of the Togiak this last year were ‘easier’.
Afognak is a damn mess, for multiple reasons.I love it… 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 hope you get to go back soon
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Joined: Mar 2022
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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One thing that drives me nuts about people applying, resident or not, are those that apply just to apply with little intention to hunt the tag if drawn. It may be legal and a person's right, but it still annoys the hell out of me.
I think of the 15 DE711 tags, only 11 actually hunted it in 2023, and that was more than normal. Quite often it is closer to half. Family and health emergencies aside, I find that way more annoying than non-residents drawing hard tags. Why even apply if you're not dead serious about trying? All you're doing is diluting draw odds. I suspect some start researching how physically tough some of the hunts are after they draw and decide it isn't worth it. Others apply just in case they 'feel like going, if they draw'. I wish the YouTube videos really emphasized how physically demanding some hunts are, and especially the Alaskan elk hunts.
It is what it is, I guess. Other western states are just as bad. Those with tags just like that skew the hell out of success ratios that the biologists and board use at times to sway seasons etc... its nuts, stupid, etc... Unfortunately Youtube, like any filming, only generally shows the good things. No one wants to see me crawling into a wet sleeping bag with wet clothes After taking my rain gear and waders off and being cold most of the night and knowing there are 10 more days ahead and no easy way to get dry or relief etc... I can only imagine the elk hunt after reading some about it. No way I'd even apply. Would be a waste of my time and a waste of the tag. A friend and I drew Afongnak in 2018, and pulled two mature bulls out. It was an absolute ball buster. That was one of the years only about half of those with a permit even attempted it. You don't actually know how many people attempted it. And why are you complaining? If everyone hunted it you would see people. You want to see people on your hunt? I wouldn't call afognak a "ball buster" On the level of difficulty it would be a 3 out of 10. Maybe a 2. Afognak and raspberry elk hunts should be reserved for old people or locals of kodiak etc You’re a feisty one…and sure come up with a lot of odd (and wrong) ‘conclusions’. I’ve noticed that about you on a couple of threads now. I could (re) find how many attempted that particular hunt that year, if I cared to. It is public info. There were 3 other camps that I saw on the same lake, and had a guy shoot a rag bull out from under me (which was a blessing in disguise). No biggie as none of those other hunters went where they needed to, to get the herd bulls. My buddy and I did. It seems our definition of ‘butt hurt’ differs too, and that’s OK. I have no need for a leftover tag right now, in any state. I’ll have plenty of tags as is and am struggling to get my fall planned out without even knowing what draws I may have coming from other states. I noticed you didn’t even attempt to address my points…and just came up with more accusations. Rock on Eddie, I guess. 😂😂😂
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,320 Likes: 30
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,320 Likes: 30 |
Nothing in my house, nor local pards. Got a “scolding” text from a temporarily forgotten pard for being left of the local pard list. SOB drew a moose and a goat. 🤣🤣
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 686
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2017
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Nothing in my house, nor local pards. Got a “scolding” text from a temporarily forgotten pard for being left of the local pard list. SOB drew a moose and a goat. 🤣🤣 If he scolds you for forgetting him as a hunting partner, it sounds like you should be guaranteed a spot on the hunt and a share of the meat if ya help out.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,123 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,123 Likes: 2 |
Afognak is. Much harder than you think. I've deer hunted there and the elk we saw would have taken 2 guys 4 or 5 days to get out. There are spots where i have seen elk in easy country ( Seal Bay) but a lot of it is really steep and nasty. A Rosey is a big, big animal coupled with arguably the meanest brown bears in Alaska its not a walk in the park. 3/10 at best for difficulty. Glad i never did any of those 4-10 difficulty hunts
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,197
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,197 |
You do know fish and game would give out less tags if everyone hunted it?
It’s not all black and white why people didn’t hunt. About 15 +/- years ago I drew a south Kodiak spring bear tag. I couldn't pull it off - mostly due to not having hunting pards who could pull off the time, which I estimated to be 10 days total, including all travel, standby, WX , etc. So, I called up ADF&G and told them I wasn't going to hunt the tag and I wanted to return it so someone else could hunt it. They said they don't do that - e.g. reissue the tag to the next person in line (like pretty much all Lesser 48 states do). They said they figure in the amount of "no-hunt' into the original tag quota. You still are filling out a hunt report, even if you don't go, so they have the data. It is what it is, I guess. Other western states are just as bad. I don't think so. In Alaska, you're only out the tag application fee - let's say ~ $30. If you draw down south, you are charged the full amount for the tag when you draw which would typically be in the $500 - 800 range. Most folks aren't going to eat that kind of money. You can typically return the tag and get a refund (lose your points) or return the tag and keep your points (no refund). If AK made NR's pay the full price of the tag with no refunds this would end pretty quickly IMHO. Either way, they certainly do re-issue the tag, so they are no 'wasted" tags.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,320 Likes: 30
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,320 Likes: 30 |
Nothing in my house, nor local pards. Got a “scolding” text from a temporarily forgotten pard for being left of the local pard list. SOB drew a moose and a goat. 🤣🤣 If he scolds you for forgetting him as a hunting partner, it sounds like you should be guaranteed a spot on the hunt and a share of the meat if ya help out. I was referring to my breakfast pards. Missing pard and I drew the same moose tag a few years back, and hunted it together. I probably missed another name or two as well. 🤦♂️
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,274 Likes: 22
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,274 Likes: 22 |
It is what it is, I guess. Other western states are just as bad. I don't think so. In Alaska, you're only out the tag application fee - let's say ~ $30. If you draw down south, you are charged the full amount for the tag when you draw which would typically be in the $500 - 800 range. Most folks aren't going to eat that kind of money. You can typically return the tag and get a refund (lose your points) or return the tag and keep your points (no refund). If AK made NR's pay the full price of the tag with no refunds this would end pretty quickly IMHO. Either way, they certainly do re-issue the tag, so they are no 'wasted" tags. That was my quote, not Seldom’s. Anyhow I gotta disagree to some extent. There are plenty of folks who apply for lower 48 draws just ‘in case’ they decide to go though I am sure having to pay the full price up front helps somewhat. Idaho doesn’t charge the full amount up front which I suspect like you indicated is partly why they have so many ‘just in case’ applicants. There were so many that now Idaho take those tags that aren’t bought by Aug 1 and redistribute them through a 2nd draw. There are a lot of basically once in a lifetime tags drawn there every year that aren’t even picked by who drew it. It isn’t the end of the world, but annoying. I’d take 2 weeks off work if I drew a lot of the tags that many people who draw don’t even attempt to try to fill. There can for sure be reasons such as your bear hunt example to not go and that’s fine, but lots of ‘reasons’ are simply because they don’t feel like it, to include sheep tags. I know of a few of those instances in states other than Alaska. Some folks just don’t take the sport as serious as others and that’s fine. That doesn’t mean I don’t get somewhat annoyed by how it shakes out.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,197
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,197 |
Apologies for misquoting you T_Inman. I was trying to get two quotes from one post and rearrange the order of them - my bad.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,274 Likes: 22
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,274 Likes: 22 |
Figured so.
No biggie. I’ve done it too.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,651 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,651 Likes: 2 |
One thing that drives me nuts about people applying, resident or not, are those that apply just to apply with little intention to hunt the tag if drawn. It may be legal and a person's right, but it still annoys the hell out of me.
I think of the 15 DE711 tags, only 11 actually hunted it in 2023, and that was more than normal. Quite often it is closer to half. Family and health emergencies aside, I find that way more annoying than non-residents drawing hard tags. Why even apply if you're not dead serious about trying? All you're doing is diluting draw odds. I suspect some start researching how physically tough some of the hunts are after they draw and decide it isn't worth it. Others apply just in case they 'feel like going, if they draw'. I wish the YouTube videos really emphasized how physically demanding some hunts are, and especially the Alaskan elk hunts.
It is what it is, I guess. Other western states are just as bad. Those with tags just like that skew the hell out of success ratios that the biologists and board use at times to sway seasons etc... its nuts, stupid, etc... Unfortunately Youtube, like any filming, only generally shows the good things. No one wants to see me crawling into a wet sleeping bag with wet clothes After taking my rain gear and waders off and being cold most of the night and knowing there are 10 more days ahead and no easy way to get dry or relief etc... I can only imagine the elk hunt after reading some about it. No way I'd even apply. Would be a waste of my time and a waste of the tag. A friend and I drew Afongnak in 2018, and pulled two mature bulls out. It was an absolute ball buster. That was one of the years only about half of those with a permit even attempted it. You don't actually know how many people attempted it. And why are you complaining? If everyone hunted it you would see people. You want to see people on your hunt? I wouldn't call afognak a "ball buster" On the level of difficulty it would be a 3 out of 10. Maybe a 2. Afognak and raspberry elk hunts should be reserved for old people or locals of kodiak etc You’re a feisty one…and sure come up with a lot of odd (and wrong) ‘conclusions’. I’ve noticed that about you on a couple of threads now. I could (re) find how many attempted that particular hunt that year, if I cared to. It is public info. There were 3 other camps that I saw on the same lake, and had a guy shoot a rag bull out from under me (which was a blessing in disguise). No biggie as none of those other hunters went where they needed to, to get the herd bulls. My buddy and I did. It seems our definition of ‘butt hurt’ differs too, and that’s OK. I have no need for a leftover tag right now, in any state. I’ll have plenty of tags as is and am struggling to get my fall planned out without even knowing what draws I may have coming from other states. I noticed you didn’t even attempt to address my points…and just came up with more accusations. Rock on Eddie, I guess. Loputz proved he was an idiot years ago. Nothing has changed. He is not worth the wasted electrons. And he obviously has little, if any, Afognak experience.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,651 Likes: 2 |
Afognak is. Much harder than you think. I've deer hunted there and the elk we saw would have taken 2 guys 4 or 5 days to get out. There are spots where i have seen elk in easy country ( Seal Bay) but a lot of it is really steep and nasty. A Rosey is a big, big animal coupled with arguably the meanest brown bears in Alaska its not a walk in the park. 3/10 at best for difficulty. Glad i never did any of those 4-10 difficulty hunts +1
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,796
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,796 |
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
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Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 157
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 157 |
About 15 +/- years ago I drew a south Kodiak spring bear tag. I couldn't pull it off - mostly due to not having hunting pards who could pull off the time, which I estimated to be 10 days total, including all travel, standby, WX , etc. So, I called up ADF&G and told them I wasn't going to hunt the tag and I wanted to return it so someone else could hunt it. They said they don't do that - e.g. reissue the tag to the next person in line (like pretty much all Lesser 48 states do). They said they figure in the amount of "no-hunt' into the original tag quota. You still are filling out a hunt report, even if you don't go, so they have the data. I totally understand, stuff happens. I don't think I would want to do a bear hunt solo because to me spring bear hunting is booooorrriiiinnnngggg. Now a sheep/goat draw tag? I don't care if my buddies bail, I'm going for sure! Are you positive there are that many states doing reissuing of tags? I just did a quick talley and I could only come up with 10 out 50. I'll have to take your word for it...
Last edited by SeldomSeenSmith; 02/19/24.
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Posts: 157 |
That was my quote, not Seldom’s.
Anyhow I gotta disagree to some extent. There are plenty of folks who apply for lower 48 draws just ‘in case’ they decide to go though I am sure having to pay the full price up front helps somewhat.
Idaho doesn’t charge the full amount up front which I suspect like you indicated is partly why they have so many ‘just in case’ applicants. There were so many that now Idaho take those tags that aren’t bought by Aug 1 and redistribute them through a 2nd draw. There are a lot of basically once in a lifetime tags drawn there every year that aren’t even picked by who drew it.
It isn’t the end of the world, but annoying. I’d take 2 weeks off work if I drew a lot of the tags that many people who draw don’t even attempt to try to fill. There can for sure be reasons such as your bear hunt example to not go and that’s fine, but lots of ‘reasons’ are simply because they don’t feel like it, to include sheep tags. I know of a few of those instances in states other than Alaska. Some folks just don’t take the sport as serious as others and that’s fine. That doesn’t mean I don’t get somewhat annoyed by how it shakes out. How do you know the backstory of why the tag wasn't hunted? You were ok with muskeg's excuse, do you know the excuse for every tag? Maybe everyone has an excuse why they didn't hunt it that would suffice your parameters on if its ok to not use a tag. What then will you bitch about? If everyone hunted the tag you would then complain about seeing so many people in the field. You would cry they give out too many tags. You want to get upset about something get upset we have 46% fewer tags in the draw than just a few years ago. And its going to get worse.
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