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It truly amazes me how human beings can twist history and make it fit their ideology and agenda.
SOUTH CAROLINA DECLARATION OF SUCESSION: December 24, 1860 For crying out loud, it's secession. secede: to withdraw from an organization (such as a religious communion or political party or federation) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secede
"Whose bright idea was it to put every idiot in the world in touch with every other idiot? It's working!" -- P. J. O'Rourke
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I had a few relatives on my mother's side that fought for the Confederacy. When I was about 11 years old I met one of them before he passed on. I asked him abut it but all he would say was it was a horrible time in his life. According to his wife who was into geneology big time, I'm supposed to be related to Robert E. Lee although about 6 times removed. His wife was supposed to send me copies of what she recorded but passed on shortly after he husband. Currently, one of my grand daughters is into that stuff and is trying to confirm what the old lady told me. That is something that I think I should know for sure. With that knowledge and a $5.00 bill I might be ale to buy a cup of coffee somewhere in town. PJ
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
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I think the whole damn thing could have been avoided… All of history summed up in 10 words.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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I had a few relatives on my mother's side that fought for the Confederacy. When I was about 11 years old I met one of them before he passed on. I asked him abut it but all he would say was it was a horrible time in his life. According to his wife who was into geneology big time, I'm supposed to be related to Robert E. Lee although about 6 times removed. His wife was supposed to send me copies of what she recorded but passed on shortly after he husband. Currently, one of my grand daughters is into that stuff and is trying to confirm what the old lady told me. That is something that I think I should know for sure. With that knowledge and a $5.00 bill I might be ale to buy a cup of coffee somewhere in town. PJ A person born in 1845 would have been 20 years old in 1865 when the war ended. They would be 100 years old in 1945. So, what year were you born to have been able to talk to a Civil War veteran when you were 11 years old? How old was the veteran at the time?
"Whose bright idea was it to put every idiot in the world in touch with every other idiot? It's working!" -- P. J. O'Rourke
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I find it interesting that:
It was moral and right to declare war on every Indian Nation North of the Rio Grande so that we might include those territories into the Union.
It was moral and right to go to war with Mexico so that we could claim California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado.
It was moral and right to go to war with Spain and take possession of the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico.
But it was immoral to go to war and reclaim those states which had seceded?
Did I get that straight?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire Member
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Would it be accurate to say secession was about slavery( in some states), the war was about the federal govt imposing its will on the states? That secession was about slavery would be correct. The second part is kind of true, but in a hypocritical way of the part of the South. They South was perfectly fine with the Federal Government imposing its will on states when the South saw it to their benefit. They pushed through and supported the Fugitive Slave Act, a Federal law that required states where slavery was illegal to actively participate in the capture and return of fugitive slaves to their masters. The Southern states openly supported the Dred Scott case, that ruled that a Slave owner could take his slaves into a Free State and that Free State had to legally recognize the masters right to his slaves even thought slavery was supposed to be illegal in that state.
Last edited by RHOD; 02/12/24.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I find it interesting that:
It was moral and right to declare war on every Indian Nation North of the Rio Grande so that we might include those territories into the Union.
It was moral and right to go to war with Mexico so that we could claim California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado.
It was moral and right to go to war with Spain and take possession of the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico.
But it was immoral to go to war and reclaim those states which had seceded?
Did I get that straight? All were immoral to varying degrees. Armed conflict is pretty much always immoral and wrong unless you are fighting a defensive war.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,273 Likes: 7 |
I find it interesting that:
It was moral and right to declare war on every Indian Nation North of the Rio Grande so that we might include those territories into the Union.
It was moral and right to go to war with Mexico so that we could claim California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado.
It was moral and right to go to war with Spain and take possession of the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico.
But it was immoral to go to war and reclaim those states which had seceded?
Did I get that straight? All were immoral to varying degrees. Armed conflict is pretty much always immoral and wrong unless you are fighting a defensive war. Every war is a defensive war, depending on the point of view. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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Would it be accurate to say secession was about slavery( in some states), the war was about the federal govt imposing its will on the states? That secession was about slavery would be correct. The second part is kind of true, but in a hypocritical way of the part of the South. They South was perfectly fine with the Federal Government imposing its will on states when the South saw it to their benefit. They pushed through and supported the Fugitive Slave Act, a Federal law that required states where slavery was illegal to actively participate in the capture and return of fugitive slaves to their masters. The Southern states openly supported the Dred Scott case, that ruled that a Slave owner could take his slaves into a Free State and that Free State had to legally recognize the masters right to his slaves even thought slavery was supposed to be illegal in that state. Fugitive Slave Act? You mean Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn’t enough for northern states? No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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I find it interesting that:
It was moral and right to declare war on every Indian Nation North of the Rio Grande so that we might include those territories into the Union.
It was moral and right to go to war with Mexico so that we could claim California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado.
It was moral and right to go to war with Spain and take possession of the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico.
But it was immoral to go to war and reclaim those states which had seceded?
Did I get that straight? All were immoral to varying degrees. Armed conflict is pretty much always immoral and wrong unless you are fighting a defensive war. Every war is a defensive war, depending on the point of view. P Absolutely, true and almost always so from the point of view of those being attacked.
Last edited by JoeBob; 02/12/24.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
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Yes no disrespect to anybody in particular. One time I flew to NC for work at another one of our plants and when I was introduced there they said he's from SD but he's not a yankee. It just struck me at the time. A Yankee (as a derogatory term) is applied to anyone living any distance north of the speaker with whom the speaker disagrees.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Lincoln was up to the time the greatest traitor to the constitution and the nation. He had to die for his crimes against the south and even the north. People talk of how the south would have avoided reconstruction and returned to normal had he lived that’s simply not true, normal was gone. Booth was a patriot in my opinion, of course I’m jaded as I have ancestors that fought and died in every theater of the war.
Sic Semper Tyrannis! Completely and utterly false. Lincoln was the one person who acted in accord with the Constitution and the intent of the Founders. Just because you keep saying that bullschit like a broken record doesn’t make it so. Prove me wrong. The American Military is not to be used against American Citizens. Doing do is a against the Constitution Yes Just a question - if people secede from a country, are they still citizens of that country?
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
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Lincoln was up to the time the greatest traitor to the constitution and the nation. He had to die for his crimes against the south and even the north. People talk of how the south would have avoided reconstruction and returned to normal had he lived that’s simply not true, normal was gone. Booth was a patriot in my opinion, of course I’m jaded as I have ancestors that fought and died in every theater of the war.
Sic Semper Tyrannis! Completely and utterly false. Lincoln was the one person who acted in accord with the Constitution and the intent of the Founders. Just because you keep saying that bullschit like a broken record doesn’t make it so. Prove me wrong. Prove yourself right. Simultaneously: "So's your old man!"
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Lincoln was up to the time the greatest traitor to the constitution and the nation. He had to die for his crimes against the south and even the north. People talk of how the south would have avoided reconstruction and returned to normal had he lived that’s simply not true, normal was gone. Booth was a patriot in my opinion, of course I’m jaded as I have ancestors that fought and died in every theater of the war.
Sic Semper Tyrannis! Completely and utterly false. Lincoln was the one person who acted in accord with the Constitution and the intent of the Founders. Just because you keep saying that bullschit like a broken record doesn’t make it so. Prove me wrong. The American Military is not to be used against American Citizens. Doing do is a against the Constitution Yes Just a question - if people secede from a country, are they still citizens of that country? No, they aren’t but the Northern preachers arrested because they didn’t include a prayer for Lincoln were. The newspaper owners who were jailed and their property destroyed for not supporting the war were. The people and regions denied habeas corpus were. The draft protesters in New York City were. The people forcibly deported to Canada despite not being Canadians, including a US Congressman were. The people subject to General Order No. 6 were. And so on and so forth.
Last edited by JoeBob; 02/12/24.
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Campfire Member
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Would it be accurate to say secession was about slavery( in some states), the war was about the federal govt imposing its will on the states? That secession was about slavery would be correct. The second part is kind of true, but in a hypocritical way of the part of the South. They South was perfectly fine with the Federal Government imposing its will on states when the South saw it to their benefit. They pushed through and supported the Fugitive Slave Act, a Federal law that required states where slavery was illegal to actively participate in the capture and return of fugitive slaves to their masters. The Southern states openly supported the Dred Scott case, that ruled that a Slave owner could take his slaves into a Free State and that Free State had to legally recognize the masters right to his slaves even thought slavery was supposed to be illegal in that state. Fugitive Slave Act? You mean Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn’t enough for northern states? No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due. Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn't enough for Southern Sates. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 pushed it further. But you are right, the Sothern's States as far back as the Constitution loved Federal Power when it was used in protecting their right to own Slaves.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And more recently, Detroit in 1967.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Would it be accurate to say secession was about slavery( in some states), the war was about the federal govt imposing its will on the states? That secession was about slavery would be correct. The second part is kind of true, but in a hypocritical way of the part of the South. They South was perfectly fine with the Federal Government imposing its will on states when the South saw it to their benefit. They pushed through and supported the Fugitive Slave Act, a Federal law that required states where slavery was illegal to actively participate in the capture and return of fugitive slaves to their masters. The Southern states openly supported the Dred Scott case, that ruled that a Slave owner could take his slaves into a Free State and that Free State had to legally recognize the masters right to his slaves even thought slavery was supposed to be illegal in that state. Fugitive Slave Act? You mean Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn’t enough for northern states? No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due. Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn't enough for Southern Sates. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 pushed it further. But you are right, the Sothern's States as far back as the Constitution loved Federal Power when it was used in protecting their right to own Slaves. Well, why wasn’t it enough? Are you saying that Northern States were not following the US Constitution simply because they didn’t like what it said and southern states were wrong for insisting that they follow the Constitution? Is that what you’re saying?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Most wars are about money, resources.;
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Aug 2023
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Would it be accurate to say secession was about slavery( in some states), the war was about the federal govt imposing its will on the states? That secession was about slavery would be correct. The second part is kind of true, but in a hypocritical way of the part of the South. They South was perfectly fine with the Federal Government imposing its will on states when the South saw it to their benefit. They pushed through and supported the Fugitive Slave Act, a Federal law that required states where slavery was illegal to actively participate in the capture and return of fugitive slaves to their masters. The Southern states openly supported the Dred Scott case, that ruled that a Slave owner could take his slaves into a Free State and that Free State had to legally recognize the masters right to his slaves even thought slavery was supposed to be illegal in that state. Fugitive Slave Act? You mean Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn’t enough for northern states? No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due. Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the US Constitution wasn't enough for Southern Sates. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 pushed it further. But you are right, the Sothern's States as far back as the Constitution loved Federal Power when it was used in protecting their right to own Slaves. Well, why wasn’t it enough? Are you saying that Northern States were not following the US Constitution simply because they didn’t like what it said and southern states were wrong for insisting that they follow the Constitution? Is that what you’re saying? I'm saying the "Lost Cause" myth that the Civil War was about some concept of States Rights and a Federal Government that was too strong is revisionist history nonsense written after the war. At the time the events where unfolding that lead to the war it was almost all about the future of slavery in this country. The South was fine with federal power that was pro-slavery and against federal power that was anti-slavery.
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