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What do you think?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ifles-99/savasge-99.cfm?gun_id=102593655

I'd say so.

I think it's been lightly sanded. And some of the letters are either poorly struck or have been buffed.

Could be an old refinish. Barrel looks almost like a wire wheel was used.

add says last year of crescent buttplate wrong by 6 or seven years, wont let me enlarge pics without joining , says sold


norm

It could be a very, very late A

not with a serial number 50 odd thousand later .

norm

The 1899 A standard weight rifle was made up until 1927, hence the raised ramp sight on the barrel, so the 293xxx serial number is not out of line.

I think the gun is right and most likely a rare configuration.

Seems to be a few thousand early for a raised ramp barrel. The earliest raised ramp I've seen was a 99G at 305xxxk. The latest long integral I've seen was a 99G 300xxxk

The 1899A was last made in 1921 with the other 1899's.

The 99A was made from late 1921 up to 1938.

I'm tempted to say original condition.. but a rifle that went out late. The SAP stamp rather than SP, and the MODEL '99 stamp on the receiver are later things than 1927, iirc. Early 30's? Rick?

Or maybe it was sent back for a refurb.

I looked at the screw slots, dust patterns, oil patterns, dried oil on the side of the bolt, varnish on the lever, lack of sanded over dents with the possible exception of the forearm I see two small scratches, wood to receiver fit and amount of proud wood, look at edges of sights for marks, raised edge around some of the lettering not all, one broken top back edge of the forearm (I've done the same with a cleaning rag snagging and splitting off the wood), consistent blue color, lack of "smoothness" of the bluing on a handled gun.

Overall, I am only concerned about the forearm being lightly sanded and perhaps extra finish on the buttstock. I could be wrong.

After 21-22 the designation is 99A not 1899A. i guess symantics

Norm

no expert, but the metal looks right to me. the proof and logo stamps appear raised, milling mark at receiver ring not smoothed, none of the screws look dished. the wood looks wrong to me.

Did you buy it Roy.

Norm

30-30 on bottom #3269xx has a different finish. What year did they start with the varnish?

Note , rhe receiver ring has a " `99" mark on it and the only other rifles in my data with it are both in the 3375xx range. Wonder if it was an old receiver that the rifle was built on. I've identified the use of older serialed receivers used at the time of the first barrel band 99H's. Also, the SAP proof and a raised ramp front sight seem a little out of place for an early 1927 serial number.

I think an older refinish.

I can't put my finger on what's different with the wood, but something is a little different somehow.

I see SAVAGE 99 is on 286xxx and 290xxx.

This one is stamped SAVAGE `99 which I have only seen on a couple of other later rifles. Wish I know what the barrel address was.

Schnable looks too large to me. Looks more like a Chicopee Falls forend instead of Utica.

Yes it is a 99A. I misspoke earlier and called it a 1899A. The schnable of these A’s was longer than the EGs and Gs so that does not look suspicious to me. The lines on the checks of the butt stock imo are not as sharp as they should be. I feel pretty confident they have been sanded.

IMHO if the numbers match I would be confident the gun left the factory in that configuration. I think the whole gun has been lightly sanded and refinished. And I’m suspicious but not confident the metal has been touched up as well.

Wouldn’t be the first or last time I was wrong….

I have a beautiful G in 30-30 that was once an 1899H in 22HP. Letter states that Savage did the work. Maybe that is what happened here.

You can do anything you want with pictures nowadays.

Based on that, I think the rifle is correct. But I wouldn’t purchase online without a 3 day inspection.

True that.
The rifle looks suspicious to me as well, but in hand may be a different story.

There were a number of receivers that never got finished after WWI. QA problems? Don't know. But we've seen this with 1919 receivers, 1922, 1924...

Then during the Depression, Savage pulled them out and finished them, added stocks and sold them. We've seen 99H's with 1919 and 1922 serial numbers, for example - and they letter as 99H's despite 99H's not showing up until 1924.

I think all the signs point to this being one. Receiver started in 1927, finished in 1931 or thereabouts.

Thank you for the replys. A lot of knowledge here.

A person with blueing knowledge would look at the direction of the carding of the rust blue and polish. Factory standards vs neighborhood gunsmith

Serial number 337547 here, 1931 rifle probably.




OP rifle at 293553 here.

Not sure if it adds anything to the discussion, but my 99H with the “ ‘99 “ is #337113.

It does. We've only found a couple of 99's with that 'quote' mark in them. Thx!

Thanks Jaaack and Rory. That is why I think the rifle was 1) reconditioned/rebuilt by Savage or 2) assembled by Savage at a time 1931 vs the time we would connect with the serial number.

What timeframe would you guess for the rebuild?

Does the mark indicate a rebuild on all rifles seen with the mark?

[ '99 ] - could it mean that Savage really wanted to still keep on calling it the 1899 but couldn't? A disgruntled roll stamp maker who wished it was still called the 1899?

The rifles with the mark that we've found have been in the 337,xxx range - 1931.

We haven't seen it on a definite rebuild before.

Considering this would have had a 1927 receiver stamp on it if it was finished/shipped in 1927, I'm not sure if they'd have restamped it during a refurb - or if they did that they'd have perfectly lined up all the rest of the stamp. File/grind the receiver down to where no trace of the first stamp remained before restamping? Hmm...
That's why I think it's a receiver finished late.

Did anyone else notice how ragged the heads are on the cartridge guide pins? Looks like they were seated with a small punch or something. Have never see any that bad before. More rework??

I ment that I think the rifle was at Savage in 1931 and that that has more to account for its condition than the serial which would indicate early 1927. The way the receiver ring is marked is because of a roll die being used at the time (around 1931) not to indicate anything special.

I also question the barrel having a ramp front sight. Knowing the barrel address might help but I have not seen that.

Norm, sorry I hadn't answered your post. Yes, I scooped it up. I like those 99A's alot.

Hopefully we'll get some more answers when it's in hand I appreciate this conversation it's been educational.

Please do follow through. I saw the rifle on two different sites and it looked different just from the way it was photo'd. I'm still looking for a nice 99-A with a ramp front sight so was looking close at it.

Glad it found a home and hope to learn more about it. Very interested in your in-hand review.

..

glad that you got it , many questions hopefully we can get the answers once it is in hand.

norm

The reduced price they put on it recently definitely made it more attractive.

You saw this for sale somewhere else for more $ and didn't buy it? Thank you! I don't think I could have resisted as easily.

Yeah, first saw it several months ago. Already have a 99A in 300 with ramp sight, one of John Wright's rifles. So didn't feel a need to jump on this, even tho it looks nicer.

The rifle arrived and is a mixed bag.

The metal is nearly pristine and definitely original. There is almost no wear typical of use. There was dry oil revealing decades of inactivity. Most of the original varnish remains on the lever. Stampings look great. Screwheads look pristine. The bore is perfect. Someone stuck this rifle away for a long time.

"A" on the receiver.




Takedown barrel, 24", integral front sight




As several suspected, the wood had been lightly sanded, leaving the points rounded over. Finish had been added, and, the fore arm was later than the gun. Thankfully the wood/metal interfaces were all right, but I went ahead and recut the points on both sides of the buttstock. The stocks were not matched in color and the fore end had lighter colored sap-wood running through it, creating a three tone stock set. Since the wood was no longer 100% original, I went ahead and the finish was removed with stripper and the stocks were bleached.




Here are the recut points as re-stained.

You do nice work!

I agree with Lightfoot - very nice work. What do you cut the points with?

You should print out this post, laminate it and stick it in the bolt hole otherwise some guy down the road will be asking the same questions and, without the answers, maybe making wrong conclusions on originality long after you and I are gone.

Note that it has the SAP proof.

Sorry Kieth, you'll have to explain the significance of the SAP. Savage Arms Proof? Wrong time frame for it or what?

Rick wanted to see the barrel address. Any comments on that?

Dremel tool with a 1/2" sanding drum, turned down as slow as it'll go. That size drum gives it the right amount of concave shape to replicate what the factory did. Stabilize your hand and make small cuts with LIGHT PRESSURE. Sand to blend. If in doubt draw a point THE RIGHT SHAPE on a practice board and do it until you are confident you can.

IMO it's not hard at all if you have an eye for detail. Soft wood you may have around to practice on will be more critical to the amount of pressure you apply so practice on hardwood if you can. If you like to carve your gunstock with a pocketknife every time you knock down a buck, crawl back in your cave and leave it alone.

What should I apply over the stain now? The satin spar varnish I have is too glossy so maybe a matte? I believe this was an originally varnished serial range but haven't verified yet....

WTH is the double stamp second "9" over "M" about anyhow? What could that possibly be about?

Roy,
When Savage begin to stamp proofs, the first version of that stamp was SAP in an oval. The SAP was not used very long before Savage switched to the SP in a circle. Only significance is the that it was used very long.

If you look at the SAVAGE MODEL 99 on the ring, there is an apostrophe between MODEL and 99; only seen for a fairly short serial number range.

I believe your barrel address is a Type 7 (has the SAVAGE - at the front). i'm not a 100% sure; my books are packed and we've been shuttling stuff down to our new place in Council Bluffs.

Really nice rifle!!

Thanks Keith. 1928-30'ish on the barrel address. 1928 ish for the integral raised ramp sight, 1927 ish serial range. Blue is what I call the semi-matte, wood finish should be varnish I believe.

I think the original wood finish was lacquer. Most of the gun companies had employed that by then on production guns that didn't simply get slathered with linseed oil. Much quicker to dry than varnish and not nearly as labor intensive to apply. You can make varnish look correct though. Definitely ixnay on the semi-gloss or matte though. It has poor UV protection, gloss is better in that regard (and UV light is a big enemy of finishes). Simply knock the gloss off when done, then wax the bejapers out of it, if you itch for a more subdued yet elegant finish.

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din, if you do that side panel shaping with a Dremel tool!! I've done that very thing a coupla times and I used narrow gouge chisels and carving tools to chip away at it a tiny bit by tiny bit, then rat tail file, then purposely shaped sanding blocks to finalize the detail and sand the wood field up to it for a seamless blending. Gunsmith's lament: "I've made a good living fixing people's Dremel tool mistakes!" I have one but dammed if I know where it's at.

Always execute details like that first, before sanding the flat part of the cheek. When the edges are finalized then hit the flats with a hard flat sanding block to create a nice crisp edge the whole way around. Ditto when sanding between coats when varnishing, save the flats for last.

I've done it with gouges and also with a Dremel with a flex shaft. I prefer the Dremel for those side panels. Then use paper on a sanding block I made out of an eraser for the job. I do it pretty much just like FB2. I find it much easier. I do them first though. The only other thing I use a Dremel on a stock for was to rough in for the butt plate but now use a spindle sander for that.

Gary, you would know. I was just going off my memory and what Murray wrote in his book.

Roy, some info I collected from pics I have. Model, Barrel address, chambering,year, front sight in the 1927-1930 timeframe. There are couple other raised ramp 1927s that I found. Maybe yours was finished late 1927; never know.

The other thing I noticed is the left rear stamp is single line chambering only. From what i have observed, barrels around this serial number range had the two rows at the left rear (Savage Hi-Pressure Steel top, -------Chambering----- bottom. The single row chambering at the left rear seems to have started up around 300K and the Hi-Pressure Steel moved forward left side barrel towards the rear sight .... but the Savage Hi-Pressure Steel on yours is on the right side ... it looks like that changed around 315k and might have been when the barrel address changed to Style 7.

Your woodworking skills are WAY above my pay grade Roy

Interesting Keith. Sounds like a little bit of an oddball.

I doubt it Ted. It's not the least bit difficult.

I forgot to mention that for cleaning up the woods minor dinks you wet a washrag and lay it on the dent, then apply a soldering gun directly on the wet cloth over the dent. It forces the steam into the wood lifting the wood back up. Steaming out imperfections is one key to not needing to remove too much wood by sanding. A light sanding blending the dent out is the most that's needed.

Between the use of finish strippers and steaming, sanding should be kept to a minimum. The stripper is nice because it removes the finish and the stain down in the pores and leaves the wood open again, without changing the degree of sanding that the stocks left the factory with.

Would the 24" takedown barrel be from a 26/27 99B takedown rifle? Reason I ask is I thought all the other 303 takedown barrels in that timeframe were 22".

#1 on using a good stripper, have refinished a few stocks over the years without ever touching the wood with sandpaper. Plastic scrapers and more stripper in stubborn areas have worked for me

I'm going to take your advice and include notes with all my rifles detailing their unique story during the time I owned them.

I know when I found a receipt for work done in the buttstock of a 99F in 284, I looked the owner up and actually was able to talk to him about his old rifle. Keep in mind the work order was from decades ago! He remembered owning the rifle but not the work he had done. It was great to talk to him. It gave the rifle more of a story. Can you imagine what these old rifles would say if they could talk?

Well, they can't, but we can. Great idea, I like it alot.

I use the battery powered Dremel so the cord isn't working against me. That will hang up on something and you'll b cutting along and bing, off the tool goes into the wood. Anything corded or the flexible shaft for the Dremel will screw you up.

Maybe this is one of the key details separating the two schools of thought on using the Dremel? I know I could not use the corded tool w/o botching the work up.

Interestingly, the forearm number on this rifle (#293,xxx) is 333xxx. Maybe it went back to the factory and got rebarreled or reworked in the later timeframe.

99A/99B barrels were 24" after 1927.

Somebody should write a book with this info.


333,xxx is near the timeframe when we see that SAVAGE MODEL '99 roll stamp. I'd guess it was finished at that time rather than rebarreled/reworked then. It happened.

I have a 99R in 300 with a takedown barrel on it from 1932. I have a 1936 99EG in 22HP with takedown barrel. Think I have another.. 99E or 99A in 300 probably. Have seen quite a number of 1930's solid frame 99's with takedown barrels, even some 1920's guns.

Another trick, for small dents, is to wet a bandaid and plaster it over the dent.

Fireball , Just to let you know. I had to eliminate mold from an older style canvas umbrella tent that had been put away wet . I finally washed it in the bath tub with a quart or more of bleach which got rid of the mold but the residue bleach would rust metal very quickly when I touched anything with my dry hands after the tent job. After that baking soda worked on another moldy tent but I would have to rinse that bleached tent in a creek for an hour or two on a hot sunny day before trusting it on a camping trip with rifles.

Barrel address and markings, raised ramp front sight, receiver ring marking, barrel proof style, forearm serial number, bottom of the barrel does not have the MP stamp which the majority of 1927 rifles did, all gives a clearer picture of the rifles history. The only thing left that I can think of that might determine if the rifle was returned for rework or built on an earlier serialed receiver would be the log books. At the time of the receiver serial number Savage was recording production and ship date. By the time of the forearm serial they were only recording a ship date. Knowing if there is production date logged might tie down when the rifle was assembled.

This rifle has been fun to work on. Having all the pieces to look at and ponder over makes me realize how far we have come in the last 20 plus years and how much we have learned. Thanks to all who have posted.

Rick, I couldn't agree more. Everyone was firing on all cylinders and really ground this one out. Wow, very nice coalescence of knowledge.

No good there. By serial number 293,xxx they had stopped recording accepted from factory dates. Whether it was finished in line with it's peers or finished in 1931, you'll only get a ship date. Though that would likely tell you the answer. If there's an early ship date and a job number, or two ship dates.. it's reworked. If there's only one later ship date, it was just shipped late.

Thank you all very much for the help.

1 more thing , in Murray's book that barrel address has no -- and is called NO 7 I have called the ones with the dash 7A.

Norm

You are correct. Most have the dash. The not dash rifles are a small subset of the total.