|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 861
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 861 |
I recently tried some Federal Terminal Ascent ammo in 7 Rem mag, loaded with 155gr TA bullets. It went 3060 fps according to my Garmin unit. Now if we sub in a 175gr bullet, loaded to equal pressure I’m certain it’ll be at least 100 fps slower. The factories are loading to a SAAMI max pressure level, so if this 7 PRC ammo is only doing 2800 or thereabouts I doubt any handloads that exceed that by 150 fps or more are at or below the 65k level. If the factories can’t do it safely with available powders I don’t know how any reloader can either! Same goes for any other cartridge!
Last edited by John55; 02/16/24.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,343
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,343 |
John55
Its entirely possible to do. And easy. Just describe pressure with adjectives and adverbs instead of PSI or CUP. That's all there is to it.
P.S. How do you make things green on here ?
I think I figured it out.
Is green the right color for sarcasm ?
Last edited by CharlieSisk; 02/16/24.
The data and opinions contained in these posts are the results of experiences with my equipment. NO CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DRAWN FROM ANY DATA PRESENTED, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT TO REPLICATE THESE RESULTSj
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,125
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,125 |
The real problem is that they don't make animals as definitively different as cartridges within the same caliber, so that there can never be a separation of these cartridge with this one will kill this animal and this one won't.
That's why comparing cartridges can only be separated by different bullets used and different ranges of application.
BUT, and there is always a BUT, if the same bullet is used in each cartridge, something universally respected such as the 160gn Accubond, there is no appreciable difference between any of them if the bullet is placed in the same spot.
Something else I learned culling, the more cartridges you use, the more similar the performance over a number of animals. When they all work, it negates most arguments. John, This has been experience as well. While I haven't killed nearly as many animals as you have (and never will!), have used a wide range of cartridges including the 7mm-08, 7x57, .280 Remington, .280 AI, 7mm SAUM, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby and 7mm STW to take 19 species of big game, ranging in size up to at least 1000 pounds, along with many in the "elk-sized" category, including 6x6 bull elk and African plains game including kudu and blue wildebeest. ALL of those rounds worked fine, and in fact the biggest animal taken (a Canadian bull moose) was killed with the 7x57. Hit 'em in the right place with a bullet that expands and penetrates sufficiently and they all kill similarly. John
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,052
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,052 |
The real problem is that they don't make animals as definitively different as cartridges within the same caliber, so that there can never be a separation of these cartridge with this one will kill this animal and this one won't.
That's why comparing cartridges can only be separated by different bullets used and different ranges of application.
BUT, and there is always a BUT, if the same bullet is used in each cartridge, something universally respected such as the 160gn Accubond, there is no appreciable difference between any of them if the bullet is placed in the same spot.
Something else I learned culling, the more cartridges you use, the more similar the performance over a number of animals. When they all work, it negates most arguments. John, This has been experience as well. While I haven't killed nearly as many animals as you have (and never will), have used a wide range of cartridges including the 7mm-08, 7x57, .280 Remington, .280 AI, 7mm SAUM, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby and 7mm STW to take 19 species of big game, ranging in size up to at least 1000 pounds, along with many in the "elk-sized" category, including 6x6 bull elk and African plains game including kudu and blue wildbeest. ALL of those rounds worked fine, and in fact the biggest animal taken (a Canadian bull moose) was killed with the 7x57. Hit 'em in the right place with a bullet that expands and penetrates sufficiently and they all kill similarly. John I seem to remember you writing a paragraph or story about moose hunting with a 7-08. Shot moose, moose dies quickly and when the guide asked you what you were using all you said was "7mm" and the guide said it's a good/big gun or something to that effect. You didn't mention it was 7-08. Might have been an intro in reloading manual. Man, my memory is crud these days.
Me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,497
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,497 |
I used Reloder 22, Magnum, and IMR 7828, H1000. Magnum worked the best, lowest pressure with most velocity and best groups. Still, mid 70's is way too high for me. But for some, that's just getting started good !  Thanks for the intel Charlie. For the initial shot, it seems too easy to neck up to 30 and then false shoulder them. This is how I do it, as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,497
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,497 |
The real problem is that they don't make animals as definitively different as cartridges within the same caliber, so that there can never be a separation of these cartridge with this one will kill this animal and this one won't.
That's why comparing cartridges can only be separated by different bullets used and different ranges of application.
BUT, and there is always a BUT, if the same bullet is used in each cartridge, something universally respected such as the 160gn Accubond, there is no appreciable difference between any of them if the bullet is placed in the same spot.
Something else I learned culling, the more cartridges you use, the more similar the performance over a number of animals. When they all work, it negates most arguments. John, This has been experience as well. While I haven't killed nearly as many animals as you have (and never will), have used a wide range of cartridges including the 7mm-08, 7x57, .280 Remington, .280 AI, 7mm SAUM, 7mm Remington Magnum, 7mm Weatherby and 7mm STW to take 19 species of big game, ranging in size up to at least 1000 pounds, along with many in the "elk-sized" category, including 6x6 bull elk and African plains game including kudu and blue wildbeest. ALL of those rounds worked fine, and in fact the biggest animal taken (a Canadian bull moose) was killed with the 7x57. Hit 'em in the right place with a bullet that expands and penetrates sufficiently and they all kill similarly.John Big +1 on that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,701
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,701 |
I’m a cartridge testing junkie so have killed big game with an awful lot of different cartridges. Wildcats included. I have said for years that a spectator watching the show would never get it right if asked to name the cartridge used in the situation they just witnessed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,850
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,850 |
And if you are hand loading, why not size the brass like this: adjust the die so you size the neck, then only bump the shoulder enough that the bolt closes without unnecessary force. This allows the case to set against the belt and shoulder. Surely I'm not the only one who does this.
Charlie It's exactly how I do it. Not forceful but not easy/sloppy either. Snug close. Makes 3 of us that do it this way......
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,839
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,839 |
I used Reloder 22, Magnum, and IMR 7828, H1000. Magnum worked the best, lowest pressure with most velocity and best groups. Still, mid 70's is way too high for me. But for some, that's just getting started good ! Thanks for the intel Charlie. For the initial shot, it seems too easy to neck up to 30 and then false shoulder them. This is how I do it, as well. That's what I'd rather not need to do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735 |
I'm with you Mathman..."Less is more", ha. The "only issue" I ever had with the belt is back when A-Square sold ammo in their A2 brass. I bought a large amount in 7 STW in a 140 something to send to my friend when he ran out of my 140 NBT in his STW handloads. Not one round would chamber and there was no ammo returns where I had ordered them! Bummer. The belt was out of spec.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 389
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 389 |
To Charlie’s point, how does a 7 PRC get 3k with a 175 but a 7 Rem can’t do it under 70k Special shoulders? Extra special speed from its short length? It’s not from extra case space I’d guess  Fairy dust, brother. I've noticed some in the ones I've pulled apart.  Fair enough! Seen that stuff do some amazing stuff! Ok Hunter. ha ha.. I just got the joke - pretty funny, bsa1917hunter. I will add that all the hand ringing about the Hornady 175 load doesn't take into account that the Federal 175 load is significantly faster. In my 24" barrel I get a 2,876 avg with the Hornady and a 2,927 avg with the Federal. That's 73 fps from what the box says, which ain't too bad for the marketing dept folks.
"One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden by the Buddha."
- Hsiang-yen by way of Gary Snyder
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
I’m a cartridge testing junkie so have killed big game with an awful lot of different cartridges. Wildcats included. I have said for years that a spectator watching the show would never get it right if asked to name the cartridge used in the situation they just witnessed. You and I probably drink from the same hole.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,125
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,125 |
ALL of those rounds worked fine, and in fact the biggest animal taken (a Canadian bull moose) was killed with the 7x57.
Hit 'em in the right place with a bullet that expands and penetrates sufficiently and they all kill similarly.
John I seem to remember you writing a paragraph or story about moose hunting with a 7-08. Shot moose, moose dies quickly and when the guide asked you what you were using all you said was "7mm" and the guide said it's a good/big gun or something to that effect. You didn't mention it was 7-08. Might have been an intro in reloading manual. Man, my memory is crud these days. It was a 7x57, not a 7mm-08--but ballistically they're the same thing. It was a hunt in Alberta, with my old friend Pat Frederick's Ameri-Cana Expeditions. Pat had a cancellation on a moose hunt, and I bought the hunt. At the time Pat recommended a minimum of .300 magnum for moose, but when the guide asked what my rifle was chambered for I said "7mm," figuring he'd think I meant 7mm Remington Magnum. He just nodded--probably because his favorite hunting rifle was a 7mm RM.... Turned out my moose went down just as quickly as the only moose Pat had taken in the same area--with his .300 Winchester Magnum....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735 |
Hey MD, I bet you can appreciate my new Mod 70 fwt with the Shilen #2 in 7x57, 9 twist, its 25" and "seems" to be a fast barrel to boot! In its first session, I zeroed with some milder Remington cased 175 Hornady RN handloads. They were just "OK". I then just shot 5 rds of some squirreled away factory Lapua 170 RN, kind of quickly, and they just wadded up under an inch! I didn't clock it, but it was a snappy load! I shot a few handloads with the 150 ELDX and Hunter, same thing. I am jazzed! I'm tall so the length seems fine to me. BTW, I really enjoy your writing sir!
Last edited by Jim_Knight; 02/16/24.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,125
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,125 |
Glad you enjoy my writing!
That rifle sounds like it'll work great. Would love to hear about your field results!
John
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,497
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,497 |
I used Reloder 22, Magnum, and IMR 7828, H1000. Magnum worked the best, lowest pressure with most velocity and best groups. Still, mid 70's is way too high for me. But for some, that's just getting started good ! Thanks for the intel Charlie. For the initial shot, it seems too easy to neck up to 30 and then false shoulder them. This is how I do it, as well. That's what I'd rather not need to do. I would also rather not need to.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,139
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,139 |
I thought long and hard about the 7mm PRC and figured the 7mm RM on a 700 clone and a 23” barrel will get me pretty far and comfortable even if I don’t focus on maxing out the velo. So there I am.
Smallfry
Last edited by smallfry; 02/16/24.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,735 |
Smallfry; Sounds like you need a Bergara B14 in Hunter or Ridge. They have 24" barrels. Mod 700 Clone, good rifles.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,162
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,162 |
I recently tried some Federal Terminal Ascent ammo in 7 Rem mag, loaded with 155gr TA bullets. It went 3060 fps according to my Garmin unit. Now if we sub in a 175gr bullet, loaded to equal pressure I’m certain it’ll be at least 100 fps slower. The factories are loading to a SAAMI max pressure level, so if this 7 PRC ammo is only doing 2800 or thereabouts I doubt any handloads that exceed that by 150 fps or more are at or below the 65k level. If the factories can’t do it safely with available powders I don’t know how any reloader can either! Same goes for any other cartridge! I got exactly 2,900 with the 170gr factory Terminal Ascent load with a 22” barrel.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
I recently tried some Federal Terminal Ascent ammo in 7 Rem mag, loaded with 155gr TA bullets. It went 3060 fps according to my Garmin unit. Now if we sub in a 175gr bullet, loaded to equal pressure I’m certain it’ll be at least 100 fps slower. The factories are loading to a SAAMI max pressure level, so if this 7 PRC ammo is only doing 2800 or thereabouts I doubt any handloads that exceed that by 150 fps or more are at or below the 65k level. If the factories can’t do it safely with available powders I don’t know how any reloader can either! Same goes for any other cartridge! I got exactly 2,900 with the 170gr factory Terminal Ascent load with a 22” barrel. I wished I could get my hands on those. The bullets that is.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
630 members (1Longbow, 10gaugemag, 007FJ, 12344mag, 160user, 10Glocks, 61 invisible),
2,227
guests, and
1,328
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,916
Posts18,479,651
Members73,947
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
