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I happened across an article on wildcat cartridges that stated Major Charles Askins "blew off a few fingers" with a 7mm-06. Does anyone know the story behind this incident? Elmer Keith wrote about some of the Major's shotguns in his book on the subject, which led me to read the Major's book American Shotguns years ago; however, I don't recall mentioning of an accident anywhere that resulted in missing digits. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/nOiNXPA.png)
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Askins Jr talks in his book about Sr. blowing up
guns a couple of different times, but I don't recall
anything about missing fingers.
The one I recall for sure was when Jr. had dropped
in and Sr. had blown up a gun and had a face full
of wood splinters and metal shards and was fairly
stunned and messed up
I think that was a shotgun, but I'll have to find the
book and look
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The Major never had that kind of accident. He was a rough ol cobb, but very astute. He was a good hunter. He was a good soldier and good man. He was abrupt and did not suffer fools very well, ha. I never understood his affinity for the 8mm, but he loved them! He had no use for the 30-06 as I remember. He used the new 7mm Rem Mag on a Polar bear with the 175 Clkt factory load. ( it may have been some of that first batch, they were hot) anyhow, he said he didn't understand why Remington both the 150 and the 175, that "everyone knew the 7mm caliber balances with the 160". His words.
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There was a long thread about him here several years ago. IIRC one of the regulars at that time had one of his firearms, pretty sure it was a shotgun. I can't for the life of me recall which poster though and I sure don't remember any comment about loosing his fingers.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad."
----------------------------------------------
"Jimmy, some of it's magic,
Some of it's tragic,
But I had a good life all the way."
(Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Figured it out, Dirtfarmer has one of the Major's shotguns and knows (knew?) his grandson, maybe he will chime in: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...r/Search/true/re-col-askins#Post11304131
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad."
----------------------------------------------
"Jimmy, some of it's magic,
Some of it's tragic,
But I had a good life all the way."
(Jimmy Buffett)
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The Major never had that kind of accident. He was a rough ol cobb, but very astute. He was a good hunter. He was a good soldier and good man. He was abrupt and did not suffer fools very well, ha. I never understood his affinity for the 8mm, but he loved them! He had no use for the 30-06 as I remember. He used the new 7mm Rem Mag on a Polar bear with the 175 Clkt factory load. ( it may have been some of that first batch, they were hot) anyhow, he said he didn't understand why Remington both the 150 and the 175, that "everyone knew the 7mm caliber balances with the 160". His words. It may not have been the Major, but I seem to remember that he was on a troop ship when it was strafed and being on the receiving end of those 8mm bullets, he was impressed with their vicious impacts.
Last edited by navlav8r; 02/19/24.
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Just possibly, maybe not, there is some confusion between Major Askins father and Colonel Askins son.
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The Col. wrote that his father the Major had blown up a 276 Dubeil.. He was away at college, before his military time, and said he drove all night to get to his Dad, the major.
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Just possibly, maybe not, there is some confusion between Major Askins father and Colonel Askins son. You think?
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
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The Col. wrote that his father the Major had blown up a 276 Dubeil.. He was away at college, before his military time, and said he drove all night to get to his Dad, the major. That appears to be it! A few years ago Capt. (now Maj.) Chas. Askins and John Dubiel spent much time developing the .276 Magnum. They first worked with the .30-'06 case, but after blowing up two rifles for some unaccountable reason, they adopted the .275 H. & H. Magnum case, John changing the shape of the shoulder and necking the case to 7-mm.https://archive.org/details/sim_american-rifleman_1934-11_82_11/page/10/mode/2up
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The Major never had that kind of accident. He was a rough ol cobb, but very astute. He was a good hunter. He was a good soldier and good man. He was abrupt and did not suffer fools very well, ha. I never understood his affinity for the 8mm, but he loved them! He had no use for the 30-06 as I remember. He used the new 7mm Rem Mag on a Polar bear with the 175 Clkt factory load. ( it may have been some of that first batch, they were hot) anyhow, he said he didn't understand why Remington both the 150 and the 175, that "everyone knew the 7mm caliber balances with the 160". His words. You're talking about his son the Colonel
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A good man? An awful lot of print about a cold blooded killer, in the words of Ayoob and others. When one answers the question, "How many have you killed?" And he answers something like, "Twenty seven, not counting niqqers and Mexicans.". A good man?
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A good man? An awful lot of print about a cold blooded killer, in the words of Ayoob and others. When one answers the question, "How many have you killed?" And he answers something like, "Twenty seven, not counting niqqers and Mexicans.". A good man? A good study on the Col is his book, “Unrepentant Sinner”, covers lots of Askins info. There is confusion between the Askins, father and son. In fact when I ended up with the Major’s Superposed, I thought at first it was the Col’s gun. They were very different, the Major more easy going than his son, the Col. DF
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Here's the Shotgunworld link on the Major's Browning Superposed that I ended up with. Lots of Askins info not otherwise published. I hooked up with the Col's son, Bill Askins, in San Antonio. He was very helpful. Long thread, 164,000+ hits over a decade. https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/1933-superposed.124719/DF
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It may not have been the Major, but I seem to remember that he was on a troop ship when it was strafed and being on the receiving end of those 8mm bullets, he was impressed with their vicious impacts. That was Al Miller. He recounted the story in Nosler #3 in his intro to the load data for the 8x57. Col Askins did write the intro to the 8 rem mag on the next page, though.
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A good man? An awful lot of print about a cold blooded killer, in the words of Ayoob and others. When one answers the question, "How many have you killed?" And he answers something like, "Twenty seven, not counting niqqers and Mexicans.". A good man? Once again you have the wrong Askins
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It may not have been the Major, but I seem to remember that he was on a troop ship when it was strafed and being on the receiving end of those 8mm bullets, he was impressed with their vicious impacts. That was Al Miller. He recounted the story in Nosler #3 in his intro to the load data for the 8x57. Col Askins did write the intro to the 8 rem mag on the next page, though. And it was about the son and not the father. Apparently only a few of us know they were both gunwriters. If you were Elmer Keith readers you would know. He had a lot of admiration for the old man. Even ghost wrote his articles towards the end of the Majors life. The Major wasn't interested in 8mm anything but he was all about 10 and 16 gauge shotguns
Last edited by moosemike; 02/20/24.
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If you check the SGW link, you’ll see photos of the Major as a very old man, apparently still with all his fingers.
So pictorial evidence is against the allegations in that article.
DF
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Details are a bit fuzzy now, but I think Major Askins was the gun editor for Field and Stream for more than twenty years. He was succeeded by Jack O'Connor. There's a very good article written by Colonel Askins in an old GUN DIGEST about the Major and Son titled something like "My Pappy Was a Pistol".
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" I came home one time and the Old Man had put
together a loading that was a mite too hot. The
rifle had blown up. He was in a state of shock, had
bits of metal in his face and hands and it was
plain that he'd lost considerable blood.
. . . . In an attempt to get some improved velocities
he had simply poured in too much DuPont #17 1/2
and the gun had parted at the seams. . . "
" It wasn't the first time he'd had a shooting iron
come to pieces. A year or two before he'd been
reloading for an old 10 gauge lever action pump
gun and the breechbolt did a double flip, the
receiver bulged and cracked, the stock split
and my Old Man suffered a concussion and
took the usual profusion of brass and steel
in his whiskers. "
Colonel Charles Askins Jr. Writing
about Major Askins Sr. from
Unrepentant Sinner
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The major was a writer for Outdoor Life, O'Connor took over that position. The Col. never forgave O'Connor.
I liked the Col. the world be be a lot better place today if we were able to follow his example.
Molon Labe
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It may not have been the Major, but I seem to remember that he was on a troop ship when it was strafed and being on the receiving end of those 8mm bullets, he was impressed with their vicious impacts. That was Al Miller. He recounted the story in Nosler #3 in his intro to the load data for the 8x57. Col Askins did write the intro to the 8 rem mag on the next page, though. How on Earth could the Colonel believe that the 8mm Magnum had any merit when God Himself had dismissed its introduction with "What good is it?"?
Last edited by 5sdad; 02/20/24.
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5, probably for that reason!!!!
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I was at the 1970 NRA Convention in New Orleans, saw Elmer, JOC and the Col.
I was at the entrance of the Hilton, which was the NRA Headquarters, saw the Col leaving the hotel, walking towards the French Quarter, alone at night. My thought, don't think I'd want to do that. Had I been closer, I'd have warned him, but he was too far ahead and I wasn't gonna run after him.
After learning more about him, reading "Unrepentant Sinner", I think he was OK. If the ghetto thugs wanted to get him, I think he'd have had them windrowed, lined up for the NOPD to sort out and toe tag. Don't ya know he was packing.
The area between the Quarter and the Hilton was dark, wasn't a good place to be walking at night, especially alone, unless you were Col. Askins. In that case, it would be more than OK.
DF
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I read a lot of the colonel’s writings. It was a competitive field back then and Colonel Askins and Keith were both pretty much bitter sounding at times. I’d surely love to have that superposed O/U. Sadly Gary Chatham has dementia now but he was the head of the Browning Collectors Association for years and very knowledgeable.
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If you check the SGW link, you’ll see photos of the Major as a very old man, apparently still with all his fingers.
So pictorial evidence is against the allegations in that article.
DF I noticed that, too, when I read "My Old Man Was A Pistol" a few days ago.
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Details are a bit fuzzy now, but I think Major Askins was the gun editor for Field and Stream for more than twenty years. He was succeeded by Jack O'Connor. There's a very good article written by Colonel Askins in an old GUN DIGEST about the Major and Son titled something like "My Pappy Was a Pistol". Though Dubiel was mentioned in that article, no gun blow ups or accidents were, oddly enough.
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Campfire Kahuna
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A good man? An awful lot of print about a cold blooded killer, in the words of Ayoob and others. When one answers the question, "How many have you killed?" And he answers something like, "Twenty seven, not counting niqqers and Mexicans.". A good man? Um.. different time and place possibly? I don't know. But people spoke differently then. speak differently now too.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I read a lot of the colonel’s writings. It was a competitive field back then and Colonel Askins and Keith were both pretty much bitter sounding at times. I’d surely love to have that superposed O/U. Sadly Gary Chatham has dementia now but he was the head of the Browning Collectors Association for years and very knowledgeable. The guy who ended up custodian of that historical gun is a firearms collector and historian. He's a great writer and did an article for the Double Gun Journal. But, the DGJ closed shop. I did get the Major's Ithaca double from Bill Askins to Walt Snyder who did a great article in the DGJ on that one. Bill offered me the gun, but I wanted it in the hands of someone who could do it justice, thus Walt. Walt has written books on Ithaca's, has the New York Ithaca factory records. So, it was the right thing to do, getting that gun in his hands. I'll get that DGJ issue and post, just don't have it at my finger tips. DF
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A good man? An awful lot of print about a cold blooded killer, in the words of Ayoob and others. When one answers the question, "How many have you killed?" And he answers something like, "Twenty seven, not counting niqqers and Mexicans.". A good man? Um.. different time and place possibly? I don't know. But people spoke differently then. speak differently now too. He had been a Border Patrol officer. I suspect his take on the job isn't the same as what passes for such these days.
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" I came home one time and the Old Man had put
together a loading that was a mite too hot. The
rifle had blown up. He was in a state of shock, had
bits of metal in his face and hands and it was
plain that he'd lost considerable blood.
. . . . In an attempt to get some improved velocities
he had simply poured in too much DuPont #17 1/2
and the gun had parted at the seams. . . "
" It wasn't the first time he'd had a shooting iron
come to pieces. A year or two before he'd been
reloading for an old 10 gauge lever action pump
gun and the breechbolt did a double flip, the
receiver bulged and cracked, the stock split
and my Old Man suffered a concussion and
took the usual profusion of brass and steel
in his whiskers. "
Colonel Charles Askins Jr. Writing
about Major Askins Sr. from
Unrepentant Sinner From "My Old Man" by Col. Charles Askins: He called me late one night while I, was
away at school. He could not hear very
well; deafness grew on him with the years,
and ordinarily he could not be persuaded
to talk over the phone. I knew this call must
be important.
"I'm not feeling so good," he said. "I
think you had better come home." I drove
like a demon the rest of the night; got
there at four in the morning. He had blown
up a .276 wildcat which he and John Dubiel
had made up. His face was full of brass
and steel, and one hand was mangled. He
was in a' state of shock by that time, and
he had lost a lot of blood. My Old Man
,and Dubiel had tamped in a couple of hat-
fulls too much propellant and the .275 H&H
case in the old Mauser action had let go.
It wasn't the first time he'd had a shooting
iron come to pieces. A year or two before,
he'd been reloading for an old 10 gauge
lever-action repeater and the breechlock had
flipped ends. The receiver ~ bulged and
cracked, the stock split, and my Old Man
suffered a concussion and took the usual
profusion of brass and steel through his
whiskers.https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0461.pdf
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The major was a writer for Outdoor Life, O'Connor took over that position. The Col. never forgave O'Connor.
I liked the Col. the world be be a lot better place today if we were able to follow his example. Thank you for the correction on the magazine. I guess I should look up the article and re-read.
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Here's a picture of the Major, looks like in his old age, sitting on the running board of his Studebaker. He appears to have all his fingers. BTW, the Superposed he's holding is the one I ended up with. DF ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/uKorJh8.jpg)
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A good man? An awful lot of print about a cold blooded killer, in the words of Ayoob and others. When one answers the question, "How many have you killed?" And he answers something like, "Twenty seven, not counting niqqers and Mexicans.". A good man? Um.. different time and place possibly? I don't know. But people spoke differently then. speak differently now too. He had been a Border Patrol officer. I suspect his take on the job isn't the same as what passes for such these days. No way. The Col wasn't too P.C. In fact he'd have been canned for any number of the events he records. Even if only a percentage were true, would be way more than enough to can him in todays Border Patrol, maybe even put him in jail. DF
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The Major never had that kind of accident. He was a rough ol cobb, but very astute. He was a good hunter. He was a good soldier and good man. He was abrupt and did not suffer fools very well, ha. I never understood his affinity for the 8mm, but he loved them! He had no use for the 30-06 as I remember. He used the new 7mm Rem Mag on a Polar bear with the 175 Clkt factory load. ( it may have been some of that first batch, they were hot) anyhow, he said he didn't understand why Remington both the 150 and the 175, that "everyone knew the 7mm caliber balances with the 160". His words. Correction: I was speaking of the "Col", Askins Jr. I don't know anything about the Major, his Dad. Sorry about that.
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.
Askins passed away in 1999, leaving a legacy few will ever match. Skeeter Skelton, a close friend of Askins, once said, “If Charley Askins had been born 100 years earlier, he would have been a mountain man, an Indian scout, a buffalo hunter, or a horse soldier. As it is, close to the end of the 20th century, he has lived the kind of life boys think they’re going to live and that most old men wish they had.”
B L M - Bureau of Land Management
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Well since the Colonel is figuring so prominently in this thread I will say the two most interesting books ever penned by gunwriters are "The Unrepentant Sinner" and "Hell, I Was There" by Askins Jr and Keith. They lived amazing lives
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.
Askins passed away in 1999, leaving a legacy few will ever match. Skeeter Skelton, a close friend of Askins, once said, “If Charley Askins had been born 100 years earlier, he would have been a mountain man, an Indian scout, a buffalo hunter, or a horse soldier. As it is, close to the end of the 20th century, he has lived the kind of life boys think they’re going to live and that most old men wish they had.” Skeeter was right, of course. Back in the day of which he speaks, ole Charley would have been a hero. In our woke present, a pariah. That was back when men were men, not some amorphous pronoun. Charley lived at the twilight of that era, glad he doesn't have to witness what we have today. DF
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Well since the Colonel is figuring so prominently in this thread I will say the two most interesting books ever penned by gunwriters are "The Unrepentant Sinner" and "Hell, I Was There" by Askins Jr and Keith. They lived amazing lives Neither one of them let the truth get in the way of a good story. .
Askins passed away in 1999, leaving a legacy few will ever match. Skeeter Skelton, a close friend of Askins, once said, “If Charley Askins had been born 100 years earlier, he would have been a mountain man, an Indian scout, a buffalo hunter, or a horse soldier. As it is, close to the end of the 20th century, he has lived the kind of life boys think they’re going to live and that most old men wish they had.” Skeeter was right, of course. Back in the day of which he speaks, ole Charley would have been a hero. In our woke present, a pariah. That was back when men were men, not some amorphous pronoun. Charley lived at the twilight of that era, glad he doesn't have to witness what we have today. DF The dude was a murderer. The fewer of his types we have in the world, the better.
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Askins Jr was a tuff man doing a tuff job.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Come on Mr Prairie Goat...none of are saying we want/would if we could, vote in the Col for our next Pastor, ha. He was just a man, and I probably should have said "as far as I know, he was a good man". ha In combat and in LE work, the "line" can get very "blurred" between "killing and murdering"...and I wasn't there. 
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Come on Mr Prairie Goat...none of are saying we want/would if we could, vote in the Col for our next Pastor, ha. He was just a man, and I probably should have said "as far as I know, he was a good man". ha In combat and in LE work, the "line" can get very "blurred" between "killing and murdering"...and I wasn't there. He's the kinda guy, if you were in a fox hole under fire, you'd want him watching your "6". Now, I agree that he may not be an ideal candidate for "pastor" or counselor, but when bad guys were out to kill ya, it would be comforting to have the likes of ole Charley backing you. So, not my job to judge; we all have an ultimate judge and I hope Charley was right with his maker when that time came. In the mean time, I have enough to do judging myself, no time left or desire to judge him. DF Edited to add this: "Judge not that ye be not judged" (Matt 7:1) KJV
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That's the kind of thinking that allows people to get away with war crimes. As I recall, the younger Askins was an admitted psychopath. Even by the standards of his day, he was not a good person.
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My comments were regarding Junior. Never saw a negative thing in print about Senior.
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My comments were regarding Junior. Never saw a negative thing in print about Senior. And you won't. They were different kinda guys. Jr. loved his Dad, described his Mom as a "contentious Irish woman". Seems to me, Jr. must have taken more after his Mom than his Dad. Like they say, opposites attract. Jr. and his Mom had an estranged relationship, weren't speaking. When the old man died, Jr. found out about it from a mutual friend. That's how this Superposed ended up in someone else's hands until it was finally obtained by Collectors Firearms in Houston. She saw to it that Jr. didn't get it, although he did end up with the Ithaca double discussed earlier and a number of left handed custom rifles. Those guns passed to Bill, his son. DF
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Those "Contentious Irish Mothers" can be "exasperating" for sure. I volunteered for the Army during the VietNam War to get away from mine, lol. Oh sure, we loved each other, just sometimes we couldn't "stand each other", ha
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My comments were regarding Junior. Never saw a negative thing in print about Senior. And you won't. They were different kinda guys. Jr. loved his Dad, described his Mom as a "contentious Irish woman". Seems to me, Jr. must have taken more after his Mom than his Dad. Like they say, opposites attract. Jr. and his Mom had an estranged relationship, weren't speaking. When the old man died, Jr. found out about it from a mutual friend. That's how this Superposed ended up in someone else's hands until it was finally obtained by Collectors Firearms in Houston. She saw to it that Jr. didn't get it, although he did end up with the Ithaca double discussed earlier and a number of left handed custom rifles. Those guns passed to Bill, his son. DF Elmer Keith ended up with the Majors Ithaca 10 gauge and Parker 16 gauge. I wonder if she bypassed Jr on those as well?
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My comments were regarding Junior. Never saw a negative thing in print about Senior. Nor have I
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A Government employed assassin is he a murderer? Or a justified killing?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Charley wrote he killed the first North Vietnamese soldier with a M-29 S&W, reportedly coming down a trail. Shot him double action; ya reckon that somehow gave him a sporting chance. DA with the Col wasn’t much of break for the ARNV; he ended up just as dead.
As you probably know he was a noted pistol champion, wouldn’t want him shooting at me!
DF
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Charley wrote he killed the first North Vietnamese soldier with a M-29 S&W, reportedly coming down a trail. Shot him double action; ya reckon that somehow gave him a sporting chance. DA with the Col wasn’t much of break for the ARNV; he ended up just as dead.
As you probably know he was a noted pistol champion, wouldn’t want him shooting at me!
DF Let's hear it for the Velo Dog!
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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My comments were regarding Junior. Never saw a negative thing in print about Senior. And you won't. They were different kinda guys. Jr. loved his Dad, described his Mom as a "contentious Irish woman". Seems to me, Jr. must have taken more after his Mom than his Dad. Like they say, opposites attract. Jr. and his Mom had an estranged relationship, weren't speaking. When the old man died, Jr. found out about it from a mutual friend. That's how this Superposed ended up in someone else's hands until it was finally obtained by Collectors Firearms in Houston. She saw to it that Jr. didn't get it, although he did end up with the Ithaca double discussed earlier and a number of left handed custom rifles. Those guns passed to Bill, his son. DF Elmer Keith ended up with the Majors Ithaca 10 gauge and Parker 16 gauge. I wonder if she bypassed Jr on those as well? I’m guessing the Major may have given those to Elmer. Someone who knows may want to chime in. He and Elmer were lifelong buds. DF
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Charley wrote he killed the first North Vietnamese soldier with a M-29 S&W, reportedly coming down a trail. Shot him double action; ya reckon that somehow gave him a sporting chance. DA with the Col wasn’t much of break for the ARNV; he ended up just as dead.
As you probably know he was a noted pistol champion, wouldn’t want him shooting at me!
DF Let's hear it for the Velo Dog! Yeah, he was gaming the system. That does sound like him. DF
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I think, Elmer bought both the 10 and 16 ga. Ithaca's from the Major. Both were Ithaca's.
The major did get involved in a shooting scrap in the Philippines. He emptyed his .38 into a Morrow soldier, and I think finally hit him over the head. The guy died. He wasn't as deadly as his son. I like both of them for different reasons. Condeming his actions with crooks, is why we are in the mess we are today.
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Sand, where did you find the article My Old Man Was a Pistol?
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I think, Elmer bought both the 10 and 16 ga. Ithaca's from the Major. Both were Ithaca's.
The major did get involved in a shooting scrap in the Philippines. He emptyed his .38 into a Morrow soldier, and I think finally hit him over the head. The guy died. He wasn't as deadly as his son. I like both of them for different reasons. Condeming his actions with crooks, is why we are in the mess we are today. The Major sustained a serious injury, took a while to recover. Now, if he’d have had that M-29, could have been a different outcome. DF
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Well, concerning that anemic .38 revolver, John Moses Browning came to the rescue.
DF
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A Government employed assassin is he a murderer? Or a justified killing? I think it was Lewis Puller or maybe Smedley Butler (Marine 2X MOH receipient) that said if they knew the things they were doing in the banana republics on behalf of the United States Government, they could have given Al Capone some pointers on how to be really evil. I wished I could remember where I read it to paraphrase it correctly, but I thought it was pretty interesting reading as a young Marine.
Semper Fi
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Sand, where did you find the article My Old Man Was a Pistol? 44th Edition Gun Digest, 1990.
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I was at the 1970 NRA Convention in New Orleans, saw Elmer, JOC and the Col.
I was at the entrance of the Hilton, which was the NRA Headquarters, saw the Col leaving the hotel, walking towards the French Quarter, alone at night. My thought, don't think I'd want to do that. Had I been closer, I'd have warned him, but he was too far ahead and I wasn't gonna run after him.
After learning more about him, reading "Unrepentant Sinner", I think he was OK. If the ghetto thugs wanted to get him, I think he'd have had them windrowed, lined up for the NOPD to sort out and toe tag. Don't ya know he was packing.
The area between the Quarter and the Hilton was dark, wasn't a good place to be walking at night, especially alone, unless you were Col. Askins. In that case, it would be more than OK.
DF I've read this same exact scenario before,except the star was Col. Rex Applegate. Must have been a popular walk way....
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Read the parts about Rex Applegate in the SGW link. The Askins and Rex weren’t necessarily friends. Reportedly Rex bought the Col’s match pistol, had the Col’s name and championship title engraved on it.
Col Askins thought that was presumptuous, not his style. I’m not sure what Rex was trying to accomplish.
DF
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I think, Elmer bought both the 10 and 16 ga. Ithaca's from the Major. Both were Ithaca's.
The major did get involved in a shooting scrap in the Philippines. He emptyed his .38 into a Morrow soldier, and I think finally hit him over the head. The guy died. He wasn't as deadly as his son. I like both of them for different reasons. Condeming his actions with crooks, is why we are in the mess we are today. Elmer said he bought the Ithaca 10 from the Major when he became too old to handle it; however, the Col. wrote, "His wife finally sold the gun to Elmer Keith." There was also a discrepancy between Elmer saying a 30-'06 case blew up the Major's .276 Dubiel and the Col. stating it was a .275 H&H case. Major Askins was the father of most of our mod-
ern magnum shotgun loads. He was directly re-
sponsible for the big magnum 10 gauge. Ithaca
made the first magnum 10 for Major Askins. and
Western loaded the ammunition. His test and his
write-ups of it are still an epic in shotgun devel-
opment. When he became too old to handle the
big magnum ten bore, I bought it from him. I've
shot that big gun now for over 25 years, and it
is still my favorite duck and goose gun.As far as my Old Man was concerned with magnum guns, though, it was Lou Smith at Ithaca who took the blue ribbon. He got up a 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge for his good friend Major Askins. The Western Cartridge Co., under the watchful eye of John Olin, came up with the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge cases. The Old Man loaded them and when the big Magnum 10 was finally pronounced ready, it digested the big shells which were filled with 1 1/2 ounces of No. 2 shot; later, he favored 3s. The Old Man shot geese with it along the Cimarron River in Oklahoma for years. His wife finally sold the gun to Elmer Keith.
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The Major and Bill Weaver were both in El Paso, were good friends. My SGW link has a good bit of stuff on Bill Weaver and his ultimate demise.
DF
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Read the parts about Rex Applegate in the SGW link. The Askins and Rex weren’t necessarily friends. Reportedly Rex bought the Col’s match pistol, had the Col’s name and championship title engraved on it.
Col Askins thought that was presumptuous, not his style. I’m not sure what Rex was trying to accomplish.
DF Here's the Applegate engraved Askins pistol. DF ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/D5heQ5N.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/3Zhn5Q7.jpg)
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Come on Mr Prairie Goat...none of are saying we want/would if we could, vote in the Col for our next Pastor, ha. He was just a man, and I probably should have said "as far as I know, he was a good man". ha In combat and in LE work, the "line" can get very "blurred" between "killing and murdering"...and I wasn't there. Agreed, but a lot of times the line is clear. The deeds he describes in "Unrepentant Sinner" neatly meet the definition of a serial killer. Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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I never read the book, so that's hard for me to reconcile that image with the one of the man whose Gun Articles I read, as a young man. Now, I'm not saying the accounts you speak of didn't happen, only that I am ignorant of them. If "the line" is ever crossed, well, that's a non-negotiable, for me. However, I have questions; were these killings ever reported? Why weren't charges brought? I need more information is all.
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Man! I tried to find a copy to read....$145 for a Paperback! I wasn't able to download in the couple PDF free websites for some reason. I don't want to read about him that bad, lol!
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I never read the book, so that's hard for me to reconcile that image with the one of the man whose Gun Articles I read, as a young man. Now, I'm not saying the accounts you speak of didn't happen, only that I am ignorant of them. If "the line" is ever crossed, well, that's a non-negotiable, for me. However, I have questions; were these killings ever reported? Why weren't charges brought? I need more information is all. Other than Germans and VC he killed Mexicans on the border and Africans in Africa. That's why it was allowed. Now he could've been arrested in Mexico because he'd follow the Mexicans into Mexico and ambush them at their campsites. But he never was
Last edited by moosemike; 02/21/24.
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Thanks for posting that article DF. Great to read that this morning.
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Man! I tried to find a copy to read....$145 for a Paperback! I wasn't able to download in the couple PDF free websites for some reason. I don't want to read about him that bad, lol! The book shouldn’t be a problem to find through your local library, whether they have a copy or are able to find one through inter-library loan.
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You forget where I live PG...Salt lake Valley...not as "Conservative" as you would think. Some books I read from the Library back in '90 have been purged. I will make a stab at it, see what's out there, you guys have me curious now! Thanks for the Tip!
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I was at the 1970 NRA Convention in New Orleans, saw Elmer, JOC and the Col.
I was at the entrance of the Hilton, which was the NRA Headquarters, saw the Col leaving the hotel, walking towards the French Quarter, alone at night. My thought, don't think I'd want to do that. Had I been closer, I'd have warned him, but he was too far ahead and I wasn't gonna run after him.
After learning more about him, reading "Unrepentant Sinner", I think he was OK. If the ghetto thugs wanted to get him, I think he'd have had them windrowed, lined up for the NOPD to sort out and toe tag. Don't ya know he was packing.
The area between the Quarter and the Hilton was dark, wasn't a good place to be walking at night, especially alone, unless you were Col. Askins. In that case, it would be more than OK.
DF I've read this same exact scenario before,except the star was Col. Rex Applegate. Must have been a popular walk way.... I find that interesting as well as Rex going to the trouble of acquiring and engraving Charley's famous Camp Perry pistol. What was Charley to Rex. Anyone know? Kinda makes one wonder who actually was the "star" as you noted, or maybe a wanna be? I don't know, but it is a tad curious. And, yeah that was a rather dark and scary late night walk, at least in my mind. But I wasn't Charley and I wasn't packing. Even if I was packing, think I'd have stayed at the Hilton, at least till morning. That walk, first thing in the morning, is a piece of cake. The perps aren't up yet. The Goblins come out at night. The more I've thought about it, Charley wasn't naïve, I think he knew what he was doing. His history of not only not avoiding a fight, but maybe even looking for one. Seems that was his nature and I don't think he was ever in a fight that he wasn't more than prepared for. So, guess we'll never know, can only speculate. DF
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Oh yeah! Have a hold on it in the "Interlibrary" somewhere in the dark web...must be as it is not in the State of Utah "at all". lol
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I think you will find the shootings mentioned in his book were not a problem in his time. Maybe some but times as they say were different. Shooting a fleeing felon was ok, running was a sign of guilt. I think it should be reversed, but it was changed during the 1960s and the black riots. Until then felons could be shot when running away.
If you have trouble with Charlie look into the 30s. Dellinger was shot in the back with out any warning. Frank Hamer's shooting of Bonnie and Clyde was a classic I think a thousand rounds were drill thorugh that vehicle. Look at it in the old photos. Now, wow.. "You can't serve papers on a rat, Baby sister. You got to kill 'em or leave him be."
The only problem with that is the crooked lawyers can make money on a dead crook.
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I grew up around of bunch of hard men in SE Texas. They were oilfield workers mostly, and over half of them veterans of WW2, a few from Korea but lots of Nam vets. Come to think of it, almost everybody worked in some kind of oil industry related back then. I heard my dad talking with some men at the beer joints as a kid, as you can imagine I heard of all kinds of killings, etc. Was around all kinds of killers (many Cons) when I later worked in the oilfields. In fact, at times, I had to be prepared to be a killer! ha It was just a common fact back then (mid 60's to mid 80's) Its got to be bad before I call a man a killer in a derogative way, it quite possibly was justified but you rarely get all the facts. Just saying.
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Notice how he scooped out the comb to lower it and make it fit his face.
BTW, taking those photos on slick paper isn't easy. Hope y'all can read it.
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That's awesome DF. Thanks for sharing all that
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Thank you for posting them DF. Great reading!
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Thanks
My interest in the Major and the Askins Clan sorta evolved as I researched his Superposed Browning. Hooking up with Bill was icing on the cake. He was great help.
The Askins have a long history in this country dating back to Abe Lincoln and before. The Col may have been a bit rough around the edges, but as a previous poster noted, you have to take him in context of the times in which he lived and operated.
Too much “retro judging” of past personages based on our current somewhat woke standards isn’t fair to our forbearers and is nothing but virtue signaling, showing everybody (and ourselves), just how pure and holy we are.
That’s nothing but self righteous pride and is a dangerous slope some try to climb.
And seems I’ve read that pride comes before a fall. So as our current generation dances on the high places of self aggrandizement and pride, the great crevasse looms all too close.
Just a thought.
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Semper Fi
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Speaking of woke standards, the second page of the wildcat article has the following quip: In the old days chronographs were few and those that existed were at government arsenals and at the plants of the big loading companies. As a consequence the ballistics data on wildcats was largely guesswork, and generally the estimates were on the generous side. An example was the 285 OKH. Now the 285 OKH was nothing but a 30-06 case necked down to take a .284” (7mm) bullet. It was fitted with a long flash tube from the primer to the forward part of the powder charge. Fitting this device was about as easy as the operation that turned Christine Jorgenson into a lady.![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/NAA7Ys4.png)
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Yeah, times have definitely changed.
The narrative trumps any sense of humor.
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It appears that the Major did loose part of a finger when a rifle using a .276 bullet in a .30-06 case blew up, according to a 1930 Outdoor Life article he wrote. Taking out the rifle to the target range to sight it in with the reduced load, about the third shot the rifle blew up, tearing off the third finger at the upper joint, and breaking the little finger.![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/95JI0rL.png)
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It appears that the Major did loose part of a finger when a rifle using a .276 bullet in a .30-06 case blew up, according to a 1930 Outdoor Life article he wrote. Taking out the rifle to the target range to sight it in with the reduced load, about the third shot the rifle blew up, tearing off the third finger at the upper joint, and breaking the little finger.After studying photos more carefully, if he’s missing part of a finger, it must be the tip of his middle finger, left hand. Study the first picture I posted, him sitting on the running board, hands on his knees. Not that noticeable unless you look really close. DF
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Even less evident, the picture him shooting with Bill Weaver.
DF
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Thanks
My interest in the Major and the Askins Clan sorta evolved as I researched his Superposed Browning. Hooking up with Bill was icing on the cake. He was great help.
The Askins have a long history in this country dating back to Abe Lincoln and before. The Col may have been a bit rough around the edges, but as a previous poster noted, you have to take him in context of the times in which he lived and operated.
Too much “retro judging” of past personages based on our current somewhat woke standards isn’t fair to our forbearers and is nothing but virtue signaling, showing everybody (and ourselves), just how pure and holy we are.
That’s nothing but self righteous pride and is a dangerous slope some try to climb.
And seems I’ve read that pride comes before a fall. So as our current generation dances on the high places of self aggrandizement and pride, the great crevasse looms all too close.
Just a thought.
DF The problem with your sanctimonious thoughts about using modern judgement for Askins Jr is that it ignores how a number of his contemporaries found similar faults, including several of our esteemed members who knew the guy including Ken Howell (RIP) and Steve Timm. This isn't exactly a new concept. Another thing - It's been a while since I read the book, but as I recall during WW2 Askins violated some sort of temporary cease fire late in the war in order to fulfill his blood lust, much to the chagrin of the local GIs whose position was mortared following his escapades in shooting a German soldier. As I recall he was a Field Grade officer in a battalion staff position by that point, which meant he likely had more important things to do than shooting a German engaged in taking a poop - it wasn't his job. That whole escapade, if it even happened and wasn't apocryphal, showed the kind of disregard he had for human life, as he was very much compromising the safety of troops of the nearby American unit for little reason other than to satisfy his desire to kill a human being.
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I’m not condoning his aggressive behavior, just pointed out that during the Wild West, justice was quick and sometimes brutal.
To me Col Charley was a 19th century dude stuck in the 20th century. If judged by 19th century standards he looks a lot better than if judged from the mores of the 20th century.
He was definitely a colorful guy. Love him or hate him, he left his mark.
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Different time for sure. I have his book Unrepentant Sinner. Pretty good read. A lot of ego in his writing. He definitely loved and respected his father.
Ron
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Orwell
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Different time for sure. I have his book Unrepentant Sinner. Pretty good read. A lot of ego in his writing. He definitely loved and respected his father.
Ron Yeah, he had quite an ego. Guess you aren’t bragging if you can back it up. He could. DF
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Orwell
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Different time for sure. I have his book Unrepentant Sinner. Pretty good read. A lot of ego in his writing. He definitely loved and respected his father.
Ron Yeah, he had quite an ego. Guess you aren’t bragging if you can back it up. He could. DF No. It's still bragging.
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I find that interesting as well as Rex going to the trouble of acquiring and engraving Charley's famous Camp Perry pistol.
What was Charley to Rex. Anyone know? The following paragraph is from The Close-Combat Files of Colonel Rex Applegate: Shooting interests continued as well with Applegate’s “Guns of Famous Shooters” collection and documentation of the exhibition shooters he knew as a boy. This showcased firearms and accessories owned by Peret, the Topperweins, FitzGerald, McGivern, Askins, Jordan, Wesson, and even a Colt ordered by Sykes for the Shanghai Municipal Police. One result was the location and presentation of a number of videos of rare film footage of these shooters at work.
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PG, there are lots of people who have a problem with the Col. Love him, hate him, here we are talking about him.
Famous/infamous are pretty close words. He already had to answer to his maker, so it’s way above my pay grade to judge him.
My Askins research proved very interesting. I learned a lot, not otherwise published, due to my interaction with Bill, who’s a very interesting guy in his own right.
DF
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By accident, I met Askins Jr. I was on a flight through Salt Lake and he was sitting across the aisle one row ahead of me. I asked if he was Col Askins and he looked at me and said “well that depends on who is asking.” He was tall and very well dressed. Had a big tan white hat and a grey suit. He had a big voice and I had the impression he was hard of hearing. I also had the impression that he wasn’t afraid of anything.
He invited me to join him and we had a delightful conversation about rifles and hunting. He was really knowledgeable. The downside of the experience was that he was pretty vulgar. He used the N-word frequently as well as other slurs which were spoken loudly in the cabin. The other passengers were pretty uncomfortable. He was completely unconcerned. He also volunteered how he enjoyed hunting men.
He must have enjoyed our visit because he gave me his address and we corresponded for a time.
Sometime he complained about his compensation. So, I wrote an affidavit which he said he was going to send to his editor to justify an increase in pay. It was something to the effect that he was clearly the very best gun writer alive. He enjoyed it.
Last edited by RinB; 02/24/24.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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A Government employed assassin is he a murderer? Or a justified killing? I think it was Lewis Puller or maybe Smedley Butler (Marine 2X MOH receipient) that said if they knew the things they were doing in the banana republics on behalf of the United States Government, they could have given Al Capone some pointers on how to be really evil. I wished I could remember where I read it to paraphrase it correctly, but I thought it was pretty interesting reading as a young Marine. I read it too, once upon a time. Fact is, US forces trained most of the cadre that spawned the Salvadoran gangs that infest cities across the Americas now Anastasio Somoza, who ruled Nicaragua for a large part of the 20th century was educated at West Point He was denied entry to the US when forced to flee Nicaragua Evidence points out that even Jimmy Carter supported and armed Eden Pastora Most evidence points towards US operatives training and equipping the Libyan terrorists that bombed Pan Am 103 And it's been a long time, but I seem to recall Askins Jr writing about his time as an advisor in Viet Nam before the US participated in expanding operations there. He had no combat role, and never participated operationally in any manner. He wrote that, while he was hunting there, he killed a Vietnamese individual, because he "knew that he could"... I'd almost hope that my memory is faulty on this, but it jives with what I know I had a close friend and mentor who served as an advisor in Viet Nam in 1962-63. When diagnosed with cancer he refused treatment indicating that he deserved to die Askins Jr wasn't the only one of his type, and America and Americans haven't always been the best sort of neighbors
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Got me thinking. In contrast to the Col was Elmer Keith. I was a guest in his home several times. He was a real old school gentleman. He always insisted that I join him for a big bowl of ice cream. He treated his wife like she was a princess. Good guy for certain.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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I have not followed this thread all the way through. Has anyone clued in the article in the original post by Courtney Wills was actually Jack O'Connor. He used that name in the American Rifleman way back for some hunting stories.
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Frim the Colonel's book
"Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.
"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat. [7]"
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Got me thinking. In contrast to the Col was Elmer Keith. I was a guest in his home several times. He was a real old school gentleman. He always insisted that I join him for a big bowl of ice cream. He treated his wife like she was a princess. Good guy for certain. And a fine businessman.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Sometime he complained about his compensation. So, I wrote an affidavit which he said he was going to send to his editor to justify an increase in pay. It was something to the effect that he was clearly the very best gun writer alive. He enjoyed it. Ha! Bet he did like that one. It just reinforced what he knew all along....  DF
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I have not followed this thread all the way through. Has anyone clued in the article in the original post by Courtney Wills was actually Jack O'Connor. He used that name in the American Rifleman way back for some hunting stories. Thanks... If I ever knew that, I forgot it
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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By accident, I met Askins Jr. I was on a flight through Salt Lake and he was sitting across the aisle one row ahead of me. I asked if he was Col Askins and he looked at me and said “well that depends on who is asking.” He was tall and very well dressed. Had a big tan white hat and a grey suit. He had a big voice and I had the impression he was hard of hearing. I also had the impression that he wasn’t afraid of anything.
He invited me to join him and we had a delightful conversation about rifles and hunting. He was really knowledgeable. The downside of the experience was that he was pretty vulgar. He used the N-word frequently as well as other slurs which were spoken loudly in the cabin. The other passengers were pretty uncomfortable. He was completely unconcerned. He also volunteered how he enjoyed hunting men.
He must have enjoyed our visit because he gave me his address and we corresponded for a time.
Sometime he complained about his compensation. So, I wrote an affidavit which he said he was going to send to his editor to justify an increase in pay. It was something to the effect that he was clearly the very best gun writer alive. He enjoyed it. That's pretty cool. I'd rather have talked with Keith personally but I'd definitely have settled for Askins
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Got me thinking. In contrast to the Col was Elmer Keith. I was a guest in his home several times. He was a real old school gentleman. He always insisted that I join him for a big bowl of ice cream. He treated his wife like she was a princess. Good guy for certain. You led a charmed life
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Got me thinking. In contrast to the Col was Elmer Keith. I was a guest in his home several times. He was a real old school gentleman. He always insisted that I join him for a big bowl of ice cream. He treated his wife like she was a princess. Good guy for certain. You led a charmed life Right place at the right time with the right stuff. DF
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Got me thinking. In contrast to the Col was Elmer Keith. I was a guest in his home several times. He was a real old school gentleman. He always insisted that I join him for a big bowl of ice cream. He treated his wife like she was a princess. Good guy for certain. Cool recounts Rick. Enjoyed both.
Semper Fi
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I visited with Mr. Keith while working a summer job in Salmon. He was easy to find. Everyone in that town knew him.
About that same time I traveled to Lewiston to meet Mr O’Connor. I called after getting his number from the information operator. Spent around 6 hours there. He was very impressed that I could quote verbatim everything he had written since around 1958.
While in school at the U of Utah I met a gentleman who knew John Jobson and he took me along for a visit. Jobson lived in a small town near Ogden.
Last edited by RinB; 02/25/24.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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I met Warren Page at the NRA convention in SanDiego. He was not kind. Actually he was pretty dismissive of me. Not a nice man.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
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At the 1970 NRA Convention in New Orleans, I was at the Ruger booth, visiting with Mr. Vogel, who I later learned was Bill Ruger’s son-in-law, real gentleman.
Elmer wandered into the booth with his big hat. He picked up their new Security Six, pointed it, aimed it, told Mr Vogel to “wrap it up”. In essence, Elmer letting them know it met with his approval. Mr. Vogel was very cordial, thanked Elmer.
My brother had the first .41 Blackhawk in our area. He double charged a round with Unique. It split a cylinder, but no damage to the frame. He sent it back to Ruger, bragging on how strong the Blackhawk was, admitting his mistake.
Mr. Vogel said he remembered that one, said it was the first time a customer didn’t blame Ruger. They rebuilt that gun, no charge, now one of the slickest Blackhawks ever.
DF
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I have not followed this thread all the way through. Has anyone clued in the article in the original post by Courtney Wills was actually Jack O'Connor. He used that name in the American Rifleman way back for some hunting stories. Thanks for that tidbit of information—the "time-tried 270" and "excellent little 7x57mm Mauser" descriptions in the article stick out now! ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/exnJSnO.png)
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I don’t see the author’s name.
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I don’t see the author’s name.
DF The first two pages of the article:
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I met Warren Page at the NRA convention in SanDiego. He was not kind. Actually he was pretty dismissive of me. Not a nice man. Have heard the same thing from one of the editors of Field & Stream, when I was a staff writer in the 1990s. I started corresponding with both Keith and O'Connor soon after I started publishing magazine articles, and both were very generous and cordial. Still have letters from both on my office walls. One thing that always impressed me about Keith is that his wife always seemed to be a very happy woman--which counts for a lot. Eventually became a good friend of Brad O'Connor, Jack's son--who is a very nice guy--and excellent shot, as is his wife Anne. (We've hunted prairie dogs a couple times together here in Montana.) Also have a good friend, a retired U.S. Army officer who served in various places, including in Kenya many years ago. He knew Askins pretty well, to the point of going on a safari with him in Angola. He has some very interesting things to say about him....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Ok, didn’t connect them.
DF
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John,
There’s so much negative stuff out there about Col Askins, I’m curious about your Army bud’s opinion.
Love him or hate him. Doesn’t seem to be a lot in between.
DF
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Don't remember all the exact details, but will ask him--though he's obviously getting along in years. Do remember they got along on the safari....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Don't remember all the exact details, but will ask him--though he's obviously getting along in years. Do remember they got along on the safari.... Musta got along pretty good if they did a safari together. Just looking for a general idea of his take on ole Charley. DF
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I'd love to hear about the Angola Safari...
It was a lively place for a lot of the 20th century. If those guys were active into the mid-late 80s they may have been right at home in Cuito Cuanavale
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Frim the Colonel's book
"Based on his autobiography, the last man he killed was in 1957. Charlie was a U.S. military advisor in Vietnam. While hunting in the jungle one day, he ran across a Viet Minh soldier. Askins was carrying a Savage .358 lever action rifle (with which he had blown away a couple of other Viet Minh who interrupted his hunting on another occasion) but chose to draw his new Smith & Wesson Model 29 and fire it left hand only.
"I let the ambusher have the first 240 gr. slug right through the ribs on the left side. It was probably the first man ever killed with the .44 because it was quite new in those days," Askins observed casually. He finished the man with a second shot to the throat. [7]" He was left handed, so shooting the ARVN left handed was no handicap, even double action gave that dude no advantage. He was as good as a dead man when Charley drew his M-29. DF
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If he was Viet-Minh he was not ARVN. ARVN were South Vietnamese troops, fighting the viet-minh.
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No tears from me on any kind of dead Commie. Dead Philistines.
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If he was Viet-Minh he was not ARVN. ARVN were South Vietnamese troops, fighting the viet-minh. Thanks for that clarification. Don’t think he would have shot a ARVN, but for sure a Viet-Minh. I’m sure he could sort them out on the hoof, didn’t have to ground check’em. DF
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No tears from me on any kind of dead Commie. Dead Philistines. ARVN were not communists, alot of them died along side our boys fighting the commies.
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No tears from me on any kind of dead Commie. Dead Philistines. ARVN were not communists, alot of them died along side our boys fighting the commies. I reckon the Col could sort’em out, wouldn’t whack a good guy. DF
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No tears from me on any kind of dead Commie. Dead Philistines. ARVN were not communists, alot of them died along side our boys fighting the commies. I reckon the Col could sort’em out, wouldn’t whack a good guy. DF Yup' I reckon so!
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No tears from me on any kind of dead Commie. Dead Philistines. ARVN were not communists, alot of them died along side our boys fighting the commies. Yes sir, I hear you. And I know who the ARVN were and who the Viet Minh were. Viet Minh, Cong, NVA, close enough to the same thing. Boo, hiss, just a shame our Politicians went into that mess "knowing" they could never/not even try to "win" in a Civil War. I have as much use for Johnson and McNamara as I do Commies.
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No tears from me on any kind of dead Commie. Dead Philistines. ARVN were not communists, alot of them died along side our boys fighting the commies. Yes sir, I hear you. And I know who the ARVN were and who the Viet Minh were. Viet Minh, Cong, NVA, close enough to the same thing. Boo, hiss, just a shame our Politicians went into that mess "knowing" they could never/not even try to "win" in a Civil War. I have as much use for Johnson and McNamara as I do Commies. Follow the dollars. Ike warned about the military industrial complex. DF
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No tears from me on any kind of dead Commie. Dead Philistines. ARVN were not communists, alot of them died along side our boys fighting the commies. Yes sir, I hear you. And I know who the ARVN were and who the Viet Minh were. Viet Minh, Cong, NVA, close enough to the same thing. Boo, hiss, just a shame our Politicians went into that mess "knowing" they could never/not even try to "win" in a Civil War. I have as much use for Johnson and McNamara as I do Commies. Follow the dollars. Ike warned about the military industrial complex. DF Damned straight!
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Those "Contentious Irish Mothers" can be "exasperating" for sure. I volunteered for the Army during the VietNam War to get away from mine, lol. Oh sure, we loved each other, just sometimes we couldn't "stand each other", ha AYE !!!!!!
"not too grumpy"
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Thanks
My interest in the Major and the Askins Clan sorta evolved as I researched his Superposed Browning. Hooking up with Bill was icing on the cake. He was great help.
The Askins have a long history in this country dating back to Abe Lincoln and before. The Col may have been a bit rough around the edges, but as a previous poster noted, you have to take him in context of the times in which he lived and operated.
Too much “retro judging” of past personages based on our current somewhat woke standards isn’t fair to our forbearers and is nothing but virtue signaling, showing everybody (and ourselves), just how pure and holy we are.
That’s nothing but self righteous pride and is a dangerous slope some try to climb.
And seems I’ve read that pride comes before a fall. So as our current generation dances on the high places of self aggrandizement and pride, the great crevasse looms all too close.
Just a thought.
DF The problem with your sanctimonious thoughts about using modern judgement for Askins Jr is that it ignores how a number of his contemporaries found similar faults, including several of our esteemed members who knew the guy including Ken Howell (RIP) and Steve Timm. This isn't exactly a new concept. Another thing - It's been a while since I read the book, but as I recall during WW2 Askins violated some sort of temporary cease fire late in the war in order to fulfill his blood lust, much to the chagrin of the local GIs whose position was mortared following his escapades in shooting a German soldier. As I recall he was a Field Grade officer in a battalion staff position by that point, which meant he likely had more important things to do than shooting a German engaged in taking a poop - it wasn't his job. That whole escapade, if it even happened and wasn't apocryphal, showed the kind of disregard he had for human life, as he was very much compromising the safety of troops of the nearby American unit for little reason other than to satisfy his desire to kill a human being. Prarie_twatt, What have you done for the United States of America in time of war? You are the fkn ultimate vermin, to disrespect an honorable combat veteran who's service was honorable, from the comfort of your home. Thank gawd there are brave men and women out there, who can still do the nation's dirty work. Shame on you.
Last edited by mainer_in_ak; 04/08/24.
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Nope, no "lol's" to be had, you cutt-throat little bit ch. I don't mind a spinless btch slumping to your low in the new York times or some sht. But a treasonous jab from within the ranks, thats a no go(former or active military). You know better, and you will do better. I'd LOVE to know your name. I lived with and worked for blackwater on camp Buckmaster for almost six months. These boys didn't have to follow ANY rules of war. Youd NEVER see me sht on a single one of them and they did some queationable things. When I frantically called for a QRF over the radio, in fear for my life, those Blackwater boys were the first out the gate to my construction site. No matter how many faults any of these ex military guys had, I am forever thankful for what they were willing to do. No matter who sh it on them in the press.
Last edited by mainer_in_ak; 04/08/24.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Eric Prince got treated really bad by the Obummer cabal.
They used those guys to do some off script dirty deeds, then threw them under the bus.
You need’em when you need’em, then when you don’t, just sweep them out with the trash.
But, those kinda guys don’t forget. I don’t either.
DF
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Neither do many, many of us Sir!
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Eric Prince got treated really bad by the Obummer cabal.
They used those guys to do some off script dirty deeds, then threw them under the bus.
You need’em when you need’em, then when you don’t, just sweep them out with the trash.
But, those kinda guys don’t forget. I don’t either.
DF I'd have to agree. Unfortunately many politicians operate this way.
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Nope, no "lol's" to be had, you cutt-throat little bit ch. I don't mind a spinless btch slumping to your low in the new York times or some sht. But a treasonous jab from within the ranks, thats a no go(former or active military). You know better, and you will do better. I'd LOVE to know your name. I lived with and worked for blackwater on camp Buckmaster for almost six months. These boys didn't have to follow ANY rules of war. Youd NEVER see me sht on a single one of them and they did some queationable things. When I frantically called for a QRF over the radio, in fear for my life, those Blackwater boys were the first out the gate to my construction site. No matter how many faults any of these ex military guys had, I am forever thankful for what they were willing to do. No matter who sh it on them in the press. No. Just because someone dons the uniform, that doesn't give them an excuse to do reprehensible stuff and get away with it. That's why the UCMJ is in place.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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It's just a shame that some of these "news" reporters aren't convicted for treason and executed themselves.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It's just a shame that some of these "news" reporters aren't convicted for treason and executed themselves. That’s the price we pay for a free country. There’s no law against ignorance and stupidity. It’s their right to be ignorant and stupid. So, it’s up to us to sort thru the gaslighting and B.S., call’em out as necessary, set the standard and move on. DF
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On a different note. Because of curiosity from reading this thread I bought a copy of Game Bird Shooting, the Sr Askins’ 1931 book.
It was a fantastic read, tales of a simpler time and much of it taking place near my home area. Certainly worth every penny of the $8 I gave for it on EBay.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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On a different note. Because of curiosity from reading this thread I bought a copy of Game Bird Shooting, the Sr Askins’ 1931 book.
It was a fantastic read, tales of a simpler time and much of it taking place near my home area. Certainly worth every penny of the $8 I gave for it on EBay. I have that book and several others. Agree, it’s a good read and from a simpler time. You right about that. The more I’ve learned about the Major, the more respect I have for him. Quite a guy and quite an era. DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yep, I've had a copy of that book for a while now, and enjoy rereading it every few years.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I have two books by the Colonel. One The biography The Unrepentant Sinner. And anothr by the NRA. It is a book about rifles, reloading, and his wildcats and hunting. The biography is spotless. The book by the NRA is underlined. I would imagine that it is a series of reprints from the days the Colonel wrote for thr Rifleman. It is about his experience with various calibers, rifles, load data, and hunts, etc.
I am now selling of much of my stuff due to age and health.. If anyone would like to buy them both send me a PM. I think they should be worth near $100 if I pay the mailing. The Colonel was certainly quite a man. Evertime I go up to Camp Perry I look to where there is a picture of him taken as a National Pistol Champion. He is standing in his Border Patrol uniform with his campaign hat on.. Time hack the mid 1930's I'd think.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have two books by the Colonel. One The biography The Unrepentant Sinner. And anothr by the NRA. It is a book about rifles, reloading, and his wildcats and hunting. The biography is spotless. The book by the NRA is underlined. I would imagine that it is a series of reprints from the days the Colonel wrote for thr Rifleman. It is about his experience with various calibers, rifles, load data, and hunts, etc.
I am now selling of much of my stuff due to age and health.. If anyone would like to buy them both send me a PM. I think they should be worth near $100 if I pay the mailing. The Colonel was certainly quite a man. Evertime I go up to Camp Perry I look to where there is a picture of him taken as a National Pistol Champion. He is standing in his Border Patrol uniform with his campaign hat on.. Time hack the mid 1930's I'd think. Yeah, the Col was a hoss of a dude. I agree with those who think he was born in the wrong century. Back in the 1800's, he would have been more in his element. In todays Woke world, he'd probably be in jail. He wasn't too P.C., sure doesn't fit their narrative. But, we owe a lot to those kinda guys, IMO. I know some will howl and disagree, but it is what it is. Back when men were men and there was no pronoun or gender confusion. I'm old enough to remember, the current generation probably not so much. To me you have to judge historical figures in the context of the time in which they lived. You can't go woke on George Washington, for instance. That shoe doesn't fit. He was an honorable man in his time and that's that. The Cancel Culture crowd doesn't agree. But, I don't agree with them. They're Marxists, I'm not. DF
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Nope, no "lol's" to be had, you cutt-throat little bit ch. I don't mind a spinless btch slumping to your low in the new York times or some sht. But a treasonous jab from within the ranks, thats a no go(former or active military). You know better, and you will do better. I'd LOVE to know your name. I lived with and worked for blackwater on camp Buckmaster for almost six months. These boys didn't have to follow ANY rules of war. Youd NEVER see me sht on a single one of them and they did some queationable things. When I frantically called for a QRF over the radio, in fear for my life, those Blackwater boys were the first out the gate to my construction site. No matter how many faults any of these ex military guys had, I am forever thankful for what they were willing to do. No matter who sh it on them in the press. No. Just because someone dons the uniform, that doesn't give them an excuse to do reprehensible stuff and get away with it. That's why the UCMJ is in place. WRONG, as always. You Prarie_twatt, blue-falcon mother fker. You obviously have zero experience with UCMJ proceedings. No UCMJ proceeding, at any level, wouldve ever harmed Askins' career. Because he was effective and valuable. UCMJ proceedings can be swayed by the opinion of a single soldier. I've waltzed in on a few of em, pointed at a worthless soldier and let the entire proceeding be aware that's the soldier is dirbag and can't deploy with my company. Kicked out, just like that. Other times, I've waltzed in and let a UCMJ proceeding know that a particular soldier (who beat the sht out of a mouthy off-duty cop), was too valuable for our company to loose. That he needed help, and to be put on that deployment roster ASAP.
Last edited by mainer_in_ak; 04/10/24.
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Molon Labe
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I recommend "Asian Jungle - African Bush" by Colonel Charles Askins. Great stories of jungle hunting in South East Asia hunting buffalo and tiger. The Africa section is about his safaris.
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As an impressionable teen reading the articles he wrote he definitely left an impression on me. His swan song article in the American Rifleman where he told of quite a few of his killings was pretty telling of a wild life he had lived. There isn’t any way to excuse some of his deeds but that’s judging from our modern sensibilities. Ken Howell said a few things here before he unfortunately passed a few years ago that told another version the Col. that was hotly contested. Askins admitted he thought himself a psychopathic killer, might be true. Unrepentant Sinner went into details of many more instances. Going into Mexico and killing cattle rustlers, shooting Mexican immigrants under questionable circumstances, to just a few. He’s met his maker now which is probably good thing.
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I have UNREPENTANT SINNER
"not too grumpy"
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Quite a read !! I think, before we judge another, we must consider "time & circumstances". Being BLOODTHIRSTY is a survival instinct, at times!!!!
"not too grumpy"
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It was the son Colenel Charles Askins Jr. that wrote "Tales Of An Unrepentant Sinner". The Major was more of a bird hunter and I don't believe that he ever shot anyone
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Quite a read !! I think, before we judge another, we must consider "time & circumstances". Being BLOODTHIRSTY is a survival instinct, at times!!!! Absolutely. Judging isn’t a productive enterprise as we’ll all be ultimately judged by how we judge. Different times, different players, different rules. Gotta understand them in the context of when and where they operated. DF
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Quite a read !! I think, before we judge another, we must consider "time & circumstances". Being BLOODTHIRSTY is a survival instinct, at times!!!! Absolutely. Judging isn’t a productive enterprise as we’ll all be ultimately judged by how we judge. Different times, different players, different rules. Gotta understand them in the context of when and where they operated. DF Exactly
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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