There are several chemical bore cleaners that do a very satisfactory job without the need for scrubbing. That's my preference. I'll scrub a carbon ring is about all.
Quit the bronze brushes years ago. Nylon brushes are all I use now, when I need to scrub a bore. Kroil is good stuff but won’t remove copper fouling, you need a copper solvent for that.
Quit the bronze brushes years ago. Nylon brushes are all I use now, when I need to scrub a bore. Kroil is good stuff but won’t remove copper fouling, you need a copper solvent for that.
lead and copper fouling is [bleep] not [bleep] to remove. fired over several times carbon is
There was a thread on this a few months ago. Wouldn't use it every 20 rounds, but seriously effective when needed in my .308 Kreiger for baked on carbon deposits.
come on somebody give me some information. I have hey borescope I see the results somebody telling me something that works better or faster I'm all ears...
I thought for sure after I went and took a shower and scrub my body clean and cleaned all the orifices better than a barrel that somebody would tell me how that was wrong. but nobody has..
come on somebody give me some information. I have hey borescope I see the results somebody telling me something that works better or faster I'm all ears...
CLR Nothing cleans carbon like that stuff. Then Patch Out for the copper.
Last edited by centershot; 02/21/24.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
come on somebody give me some information. I have hey borescope I see the results somebody telling me something that works better or faster I'm all ears...
If you have a bore scope, just believe your own eyes.
1) I've found it easier to use a carbon solvent to get most of it out, than brush it. One of the benefits of being a gun writer is cleaning-product manufacturers sometimes send me samples. The one I generally use KG1 Carbon Remover, but there are others.
2) Dan Lilja not only knows how to make great barrels, but also knows how to shoot rifles very well. He firmly believes that ALL carbon should NOT be removed when cleaning. You can find out why by going to his website and clicking on "Support" at the top of the page, then click on "Centerfire Maintenance" in the drop-down window.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I have a good friend that is a pretty good rifle shot and a hand loader. He tells me that his rifles shoot better with some fouling. Doesn't want a perfectly clean barrel and will only scrub one out if accuracy falls off.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Abbreviated bronze brush life was the reason I stopped using Hoppes #9, Afterwards used a bunch of non-NH3+ solvents including Kroil, BF CLP, Ed's Red, plus several others for .22rfs. No reason to use a Cu++ solvent there, anyway.
Some years later got a Teslong and found carbon rings on a couple I was using. For no particular reason decided to look at some in "mothballs" but last cleaned with #9. None had a carbon ring. Hmmmm.
Only have about 5 glass bottle quarts of #9 left, so lately been using it on patches and/or with nylon brush for throat scrubbing. Call me crazy, but my Teslong sez #9 gets carbon out of .22 throats faster than Kroil or CLP.
Still prefer Patch-Out and Accelerator or Kroil/Paste for CFs.
and I agree with Lilja 100%. this was in a barrel that was not considered high quality. but was shooting a bit erratically and also extreme point of impact changes when you change types of ammo and as an extreme I mean go from being more or less sighteded in to not even hit the paper.
so I borescoped this thing to see the front half of the barrel was extremely clean. and then some some types of filing that you would expect to see in a cared for rifle but not just meticulously.
and there was a piece about an inch and a half long 2 in out of the chamber that was black I mean coal black you could still see lands and grooves so I decided to clean this thing as good as I could so I could start over and see how it shoots. and nothing I had in the solvents and I've got quite a few even with the brush hardly even touch that black area. then I remembered an old friend of mine used to swear by kroil so I let it soak overnight and brushed it out and lo and behold it worked.
. I have never seen any kind of barrel look like that ever before.
the guy I got that from said it was new unfired but obviously it wasn't.
I don't clean until accuracy falls off and like others, I'm not sold on a hospital sterile barrel/clean. That said Cortina used CLR a bit but seems to have stopped.
Here's his latest deal I could find on it. First 3 mins he goes over what he's using - rest of the vid is a how to so to speak.
Seems fitting, as I've been messing with a new to me Sako that really needed some copper fouling removed. That was part of the reason I got it for so cheap. The gunshop owner knew I'd get it taken care of though, and it's been a learning experience because I've never had a rifle with that much copper in it!!!!!!
Really bad picture, but you get the idea^^^
Went as far as making my own bore guide as well:
The small action Sako has a very small diameter bolt body, and none of my bore guides would fit it.
The first thing I did was buy some products I found at the local gun shop/hardware store. That was Barnes CR-10. That stuff didn't even touch the copper in the barrel, and I used it as the directions said.
Next I said f it, and ran some sweets 7.62 down it. Making sure I did not leave that crap in the bore for too long. The rifle was not shooting horrible, but still not MOA like I thought it should:
I was waiting for the Wipe out, that I ordered online to come in. After the wipeout, the patches looked like this:
But after shooting, the rifle looked like it wanted to collect copper again. At this point, I said screw it and attacked it with some flitz metal polish. That stuff seemed to help reduce the copper fouling the next time out.
Now, I am just using my shooters choice, that I normally use on all of my rifles and getting patches that look like this: I let the shooters choice sit in the bore for 15 minutes, then swabbed it out. This was before shooting the rifle!!
Since the groups looked like they were slightly improving:
Well, the majority of the bullets were landing in roughly the same spot, I figured It was time to glass bed the rifle:
Now it's shooting like this:
From here on out, I'll just clean it the way I do the rest of my rifles and it should be good. If it starts collecting copper, I'll hit it with that Wipe out/patch out stuff. It seems like it works well on the copper, and is not as harsh as the Sweets 7.62.
This rifle should turn in sub moa groups at 400 yards now, but will need to be rung out and checked.
The other day, I was losing daylight, so I just painted the yote real quick and fired off some shots to check how it was going to do at 400 yards. First 3 shots hit in the neck, then I fired off 5 more at his head. Should be a yote killing machine now.. 100 yards was too easy of a shot on this furry rat..
In the back of my mind, I kept thinking this would probably be the perfect candidate to try some of that dyna bore coat JB is always talking about. I'll bet if a guy were to clean the bore down to bare metal, then apply that DBC, that would solve a lot of problems...
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I don't clean until accuracy falls off and like others, I'm not sold on a hospital sterile barrel/clean. That said Cortina used CLR a bit but seems to have stopped.
Here's his latest deal I could find on it. First 3 mins he goes over what he's using - rest of the vid is a how to so to speak.
All I can comment on is that last little bit of carbon fouling that he used the carb out wasnt really needed. If he would have followed directions on the Iosso bore cleaner and used a Iosso nylon brush after letting the bore cleaner work a couple minutes it wouldnt have been in there.
dirty is subjective. 1 round is dirtier than 100% bare metal clean. SO is 400 rounds. How different rifles perform with different amounts of carbon and copper depends on many factors. best bet is to clean a rifle to bare metal then watch accuracy and keep round count until you see accuracy falling off. Then you know what your window of accuracy is and when you need to clean.
2 wet patches of butches, patch with acetone till it comes out clean then bore scope to see copper build up. JB to bare metal then a patch of kroil followed by a dry patch.
dirty is subjective. 1 round is dirtier than 100% bare metal clean. SO is 400 rounds. How different rifles perform with different amounts of carbon and copper depends on many factors. best bet is to clean a rifle to bare metal then watch accuracy and keep round count until you see accuracy falling off. Then you know what your window of accuracy is and when you need to clean.
2 wet patches of butches, patch with acetone till it comes out clean then bore scope to see copper build up. JB to bare metal then a patch of kroil followed by a dry patch.
I don't clean until accuracy falls off and like others, I'm not sold on a hospital sterile barrel/clean. That said Cortina used CLR a bit but seems to have stopped.
Here's his latest deal I could find on it. First 3 mins he goes over what he's using - rest of the vid is a how to so to speak.
All I can comment on is that last little bit of carbon fouling that he used the carb out wasnt really needed. If he would have followed directions on the Iosso bore cleaner and used a Iosso nylon brush after letting the bore cleaner work a couple minutes it wouldnt have been in there.
I'm vaguely aware of him as a shooter (PRS/F-Class isn't my interest) but he's been showing up more and more in my youtube feed as I'm looking to learn more about loading for accuracy. His video on "stop chasing the lands" makes a ton of sense to me and I had randomly seen a video where he was soaking things in CLR. Then this thread popped - all in about 72 hours. Figured I'd post.
TL/DR - I'm not a Cortina fan boi, just saw it as a data point/opinion to share.
dirty is subjective. 1 round is dirtier than 100% bare metal clean. SO is 400 rounds. How different rifles perform with different amounts of carbon and copper depends on many factors. best bet is to clean a rifle to bare metal then watch accuracy and keep round count until you see accuracy falling off. Then you know what your window of accuracy is and when you need to clean.
2 wet patches of butches, patch with acetone till it comes out clean then bore scope to see copper build up. JB to bare metal then a patch of kroil followed by a dry patch.
Butch's is so old school I cant believe people still use it..........
I like Cortina but the way he cleans a rifle with 6 or 7 different things is ridiculous.....
Use Bore Tech Eliminator and be done......yes I have 2 bore scopes
Butch's is so old school I cant believe people still use it..........
Butch's is a great product. It's all I use for routine cleaning.
I remember back in the day when it was told GM Top Engine Cleaner was said to be the same formula as BBS. Went to my local Chevy/GM dealer and bought a quart for $7. I thought it was indistinguishable from BBS….same smell, look, consistency, etc. And it cleaned my bore perfectly. I was turned on to that little tidbit of information by the shooters at the US Army Marksmanship Training Unit at Ft Benning,just up the road.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
well I'm glad to report my somewhat controversial down to bare metal cleaning has resulted in exactly what I hope to see. a rifle that was shooting around an inch and a half group at 50 yards to shooting a half inch group at 50 yards.. now to get the Target down range and get loads dialed in..
another note on extended brush life I use carburetor cleaner to spray out brushes with after being in harsher cleaning solutions.
Some good info here from guys who clean a LOT of barrels:
good stuff . I'm a fan of just letting the bird tell me what it wants. and today's affordable horoscope options it's easier to keep track of than ever.
I don't clean until accuracy falls off and like others, I'm not sold on a hospital sterile barrel/clean. That said Cortina used CLR a bit but seems to have stopped.
Here's his latest deal I could find on it. First 3 mins he goes over what he's using - rest of the vid is a how to so to speak.
Sounds a lot like "You should not use it", "I'm still going to, I'm just not going to tell anyone".
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
well I'm glad to report my somewhat controversial down to bare metal cleaning has resulted in exactly what I hope to see. a rifle that was shooting around an inch and a half group at 50 yards to shooting a half inch group at 50 yards.. now to get the Target down range and get loads dialed in..
another note on extended brush life I use carburetor cleaner to spray out brushes with after being in harsher cleaning solutions.
Glad it worked out!
But a more interesting experiment might have been to shoot before the final carbon-cleaning, and see if there was any difference in group size--especially with more than one group.
Might also comment that I watched the Hornady podcast, and their experience has been my experience: How much cleaning "needs" to be done for the smallest groups depends on the individual barrel, bullet, powder, etc.
Have also visited many pressure labs, including those of ammunition manufacturers who make far more than Hornady, and that's been their experience as well. Oh, and their testing is always done indoors, in very controlled conditions.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I use #9 to get the easy carbon out. Patch out to get the copper and a couple of years ago I got some Marvel Mystery Oil penetrating oil in a spray bottle. It's no longer sold but looking it up on the MSDS reports it's got the same stuff in it as the Marvel Mystery oil you put in your car's gas tank or engine. I put it on a patch and run it through the barrel until the barrel is nice and damp. I let it set for a couple of days and I push a patch wrapped around an old brush through the barrel and I get more carbon. I run the patches until they come out clean and oil free. My bore scope is telling me that at least 99% of the carbon is gone. I shoot a couple of rounds through the gun before I shoot for groups to re-season the barrel.
kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
You think a bronze brush causes more damage to a barrel than shooting bullets down the bore, that fit so tightly that they engrave, at 60,000 PSI
Let's just say I'll never use a bronze brush again for any reason. I agree totally with what Frank says. And he's got more time behind a scope than any of us. dave
Nothing wrong with Kroil. I use KG carbon and KG copper for chemical cleaners. Thorough flush and thorough clean with a Isso nylon brush for when it starts to get ugly. And when it really gets ugly witches Brew. dave
The man that owns one of the most respected barrel companies in the World (that's a capital 'W') and is, himself, an accomplished barrel maker and competitive shooter....is told he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to cleaning a barrel?
The man that owns one of the most respected barrel companies in the World (that's a capital 'W') and is, himself, an accomplished barrel maker and competitive shooter....is told he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to cleaning a barrel?
Pretty weird even for the Campfire.
if you're referring to me I never said nothing like that I was referring to getting some really odly carboned area out of a standard factory barrel..
Bronze phosphor has a Rockwell Hardness of 78 while Stainless steel has an RH of 88
Quote
kriegerbarrels.com
There is no right answer to cleaning products and equipment, however under no circumstances should you use a stainless brush. If you choose to use brushes in your cleaning use only quality bronze phosphor brushes or nylon. Clean them after every use to extend their life.
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Wasn’t the concern with bronze brushes and abrasives?
Bingo.
Depending on the alloy and treatment during manufacturing, phosphor bronze will run from the low 20's to the high 90's Rc. Which is why using a high quality looped bronze brushes...Dewey or Pro Shot...makes a difference. That's all I use in my barrels, regardless of maker.
For JBing a barrel, the high quality Iosso synthetic brushes are very good.
dirty is subjective. 1 round is dirtier than 100% bare metal clean. SO is 400 rounds. How different rifles perform with different amounts of carbon and copper depends on many factors. best bet is to clean a rifle to bare metal then watch accuracy and keep round count until you see accuracy falling off. Then you know what your window of accuracy is and when you need to clean.
2 wet patches of butches, patch with acetone till it comes out clean then bore scope to see copper build up. JB to bare metal then a patch of kroil followed by a dry patch.
Butch's is so old school I cant believe people still use it..........
I like Cortina but the way he cleans a rifle with 6 or 7 different things is ridiculous.....
Use Bore Tech Eliminator and be done......yes I have 2 bore scopes
I picked up a real bad chemical sensitivity in the Corps after an incident and I get instant migrains from certain stuff. BUTCH'S doesn't bother me. I figure 90% of the cleanings coming from friction and JB.
I had a barrel that looked like BSA 1917s with the copper. I tried quite a few different cleaners and none worked. Hoppes Elite Foaming Bore Cleaner finally did it for me. It was easy too. Spay in the bore, leave for 30 minutes, copper brush and done.
Question. Does copper removing gun powder have a place in this conversation?
Of course. It works. If copper fouling is a detriment to accuracy in a particular barrel a decoppering agent in the powder you use can eliminate, or help, that problem. But generally copper is easy to deal with. Carbon on the other hand can be a nightmare.
Current foaming bore cleaners are off shoots of the original 'Forrest Foaming Bore Cleaner'. I started using it in the mid '90's when it was distributed through their Kansas outlet. As I recall, it was actually mfgd. in Europe...where it's still widely used. Having bought a case of 12, I was down to my last can when Wipe Out came on the scene, as well as others. They all seem to do an effective job but Wipe Out is my go-to for a foaming cleaner.
Rather than going in the muzzle, I go in from the chamber end with this little gizmo. The rubber cone is a lab grade test tube stopper with a pipette hole in it. It's pliable and chemical resistant so you can push it into the chamber and it seals nicely. Works in everything from nice BR actions to old dinosaurs like this Interarms Mark X that's getting a rehab. The dinosaur took 3 days of 8 hour soaks with Wipe Out to get the layers of carbon and copper out. A bit of work after that with an Iosso blue brush wrapped with a patch loaded with JB revealed a beautiful barrel under all that crud.
In the borescope close ups at the 9:00 minute mark in Erics video where he stops and says "Oh look at that" sure looks like rust or corrosion pitting to me. A subsequent comment towards the end of the video at 15:46 of another pitted section bore close up of some of the spots he's calling carbon he says "don't know whats going on there". Anybody think thats a little odd? Can't polish/brush those out.
Current foaming bore cleaners are off shoots of the original 'Forrest Foaming Bore Cleaner'. I started using it in the mid '90's when it was distributed through their Kansas outlet. As I recall, it was actually mfgd. in Europe...where it's still widely used. Having bought a case of 12, I was down to my last can when Wipe Out came on the scene, as well as others. They all seem to do an effective job but Wipe Out is my go-to for a foaming cleaner.
Rather than going in the muzzle, I go in from the chamber end with this little gizmo. The rubber cone is a lab grade test tube stopper with a pipette hole in it. It's pliable and chemical resistant so you can push it into the chamber and it seals nicely. Works in everything from nice BR actions to old dinosaurs like this Interarms Mark X that's getting a rehab. The dinosaur took 3 days of 8 hour soaks with Wipe Out to get the layers of carbon and copper out. A bit of work after that with an Iosso blue brush wrapped with a patch loaded with JB revealed a beautiful barrel under all that crud.
Just a heads up if you're using a foaming cleaner.
When they get out the back end of the chamber and your receiver has an exposed front action screw (700's, etc.), these foaming cleaners creep between the screw threads and action threads and get between the receiver and the bedding.
The tapered stopper setup seals the back of the chamber so this doesn't happen. A dab of non hardening sealer on the front action screw threads helps too.
The only time I’ve tried to get to bare metal was for a Dyna-bore treatment. Back when Dyna Bore was readily available I decided to treat every rifle barrel and a couple revolver barrels. Maybe that wasn’t necessary but that’s what I did. I have most new and old bore cleaning chemicals on my bench. Some that where the “best” (ha ha) back in the day are still there, I should probably throw them out. I use a foaming bore cleaner - the one Al showed and another which I prefer. I repeated cleaning until there was no blue and I may have over did it with JB bore cleaner and a tight patch around a bronze brush - but the barrels were clean.
Now, if I think the rifle needs cleaning I’ll use the foaming bore cleaner once and then oil it with Kroil and put the rifle away until next season.
The only exception is with PD rifles. If we have days of heavy shooting, I may use a foaming cleaner once in the middle of the shoot. Maybe cleaning with JB would be a good idea at the end of the year, but the group sizes don’t seem to warrant it. Basically, I have not felt the need to get the JB bore cleaner out since the DB treatment. Maybe if I shot competitively with a service rifle and put thousands of rounds down range…
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
Just a heads up if you're using a foaming cleaner.
When they get out the back end of the chamber and your receiver has an exposed front action screw (700's, etc.), these foaming cleaners creep between the screw threads and action threads and get between the receiver and the bedding.
The tapered stopper setup seals the back of the chamber so this doesn't happen. A dab of non hardening sealer on the front action screw threads helps too.
You don’t need the tapered stopper. The tube I’m showing is soft enough that you seal the chamber at the neck. No cleaner gets behind it.
Last year before deer hunting time, I took a box of chemicals to the range with a big 'Free' sign on it.
Jeez...it looked like a government cheese hand out! Even the box got scarfed up.
I use all of these, depending on the situation.
Al,
Have a similar collection--which I've considered reducing recently, as I'm downsizing various other collections.
When using foam cleaners I shoot 'em into the muzzle too--but put a fired case in the chamber, wrapped with just enough thin tape to prevent the foam from getting into the action.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Everyone please pay attention to Ed's use of Isopropyl alcohol. He uses 99%. Note that most all druge store Isopropyl is 70%. That means it is 30% water. DO NOT use 70% in your bore (or anywhere else you don't want potential corrosion. Likewise, do not use 99%on your skin.
Originally Posted by Teal
Originally Posted by Swifty52
Originally Posted by Teal
I don't clean until accuracy falls off and like others, I'm not sold on a hospital sterile barrel/clean. That said Cortina used CLR a bit but seems to have stopped.
Here's his latest deal I could find on it. First 3 mins he goes over what he's using - rest of the vid is a how to so to speak.
All I can comment on is that last little bit of carbon fouling that he used the carb out wasnt really needed. If he would have followed directions on the Iosso bore cleaner and used a Iosso nylon brush after letting the bore cleaner work a couple minutes it wouldnt have been in there.
I'm vaguely aware of him as a shooter (PRS/F-Class isn't my interest) but he's been showing up more and more in my youtube feed as I'm looking to learn more about loading for accuracy. His video on "stop chasing the lands" makes a ton of sense to me and I had randomly seen a video where he was soaking things in CLR. Then this thread popped - all in about 72 hours. Figured I'd post.
TL/DR - I'm not a Cortina fan boi, just saw it as a data point/opinion to share.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Everyone please pay attention to Ed's use of Isopropyl alcohol. He uses 99%. Note that most all druge store Isopropyl is 70%. That means it is 30% water. DO NOT use 70% in your bore (or anywhere else you don't want potential corrosion. Likewise, do not use 99%on your skin.
Originally Posted by Teal
Originally Posted by Swifty52
Originally Posted by Teal
I don't clean until accuracy falls off and like others, I'm not sold on a hospital sterile barrel/clean. That said Cortina used CLR a bit but seems to have stopped.
Here's his latest deal I could find on it. First 3 mins he goes over what he's using - rest of the vid is a how to so to speak.
All I can comment on is that last little bit of carbon fouling that he used the carb out wasnt really needed. If he would have followed directions on the Iosso bore cleaner and used a Iosso nylon brush after letting the bore cleaner work a couple minutes it wouldnt have been in there.
I'm vaguely aware of him as a shooter (PRS/F-Class isn't my interest) but he's been showing up more and more in my youtube feed as I'm looking to learn more about loading for accuracy. His video on "stop chasing the lands" makes a ton of sense to me and I had randomly seen a video where he was soaking things in CLR. Then this thread popped - all in about 72 hours. Figured I'd post.
TL/DR - I'm not a Cortina fan boi, just saw it as a data point/opinion to share.
the 99% stuff is what I actually make some case lubricant of that and lanolin
Everyone please pay attention to Ed's use of Isopropyl alcohol. He uses 99%. Note that most all druge store Isopropyl is 70%. That means it is 30% water. DO NOT use 70% in your bore (or anywhere else you don't want potential corrosion. Likewise, do not use 99%on your skin.
Originally Posted by Teal
Originally Posted by Swifty52
Originally Posted by Teal
I don't clean until accuracy falls off and like others, I'm not sold on a hospital sterile barrel/clean. That said Cortina used CLR a bit but seems to have stopped.
Here's his latest deal I could find on it. First 3 mins he goes over what he's using - rest of the vid is a how to so to speak.
All I can comment on is that last little bit of carbon fouling that he used the carb out wasnt really needed. If he would have followed directions on the Iosso bore cleaner and used a Iosso nylon brush after letting the bore cleaner work a couple minutes it wouldnt have been in there.
I'm vaguely aware of him as a shooter (PRS/F-Class isn't my interest) but he's been showing up more and more in my youtube feed as I'm looking to learn more about loading for accuracy. His video on "stop chasing the lands" makes a ton of sense to me and I had randomly seen a video where he was soaking things in CLR. Then this thread popped - all in about 72 hours. Figured I'd post.
TL/DR - I'm not a Cortina fan boi, just saw it as a data point/opinion to share.
the 99% stuff is what I actually make some case lubricant of that and lanolin
i make it too. it is better than aerosol Hornady one shot spray.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
I've got a bud that shoots benchrest for score matches & is now using,,,,, PB Blaster to mop his bores with. Normally I'd say; you got to be kidding me, but he's been winning so much in the last few years that I can't question a single one of his procedures.
It’s good to hear that most of you care enough about your firearms to clean them regularly. Just one or two points.
Don’t be fooled by store bought cleaners! They are overpriced and don’t work well.
All companies hire a scientist, but not for research and development or safety. They are hired because they went to university and learned a lot of chemical names and complex descriptors for common things, like ethyl ether (acid and alcohol), tapolene (water), glucose or dextrose (sugar), and blunt force trauma (being beaten by a revenuer) They also have letters after their names. It impresses people, and when you’re young, is a great help in picking up girls.
How about ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (EGME) or C3H8O2 aka ‘Shine’? If you think of a fancy mixed drink like a Pina Colada, you’d be on the right track for what this is. Instead of rum, pineapples, coconut creams, fruit and ice, just think of a bunch of alcohols mixed together.
Put this on a label, and watch the retail price of a bottle of ‘shine’ go through the roof! Of course, it’s an organic solvent, just like pappy’s corn squeezin’s. It will strip or thin paint. Or you can use it as a spot remover. Some folks call it Mountain Dew or White Lightning, but please, don’t drink it! The store bought, commercially made stuff will make you sick or blind you! It’s not purified like home brew!!!
Just remember, companies cannot charge big bucks if customers find out their gun cleaner is made from potato peelings and/or other fermented plants. So they get all fancy, hire a scientist, and call the peelings, sugar,etc – hydrocarbons, and other $25 names.
See your local moonshiner for inexpensive, effective gun cleaners that you can drink!
Don’t use bronze brushes and don’t use Kroil and just took a very fouled barrel to bare metal clean, including complete removal of the carbon ring, in 20 minutes using commercial cleaners and a nylon brush. Done.
Don’t use bronze brushes and don’t use Kroil and just took a very fouled barrel to bare metal clean, including complete removal of the carbon ring, in 20 minutes using commercial cleaners and a nylon brush. Done.
well I noticed you failed to say exactly what you used though..
You were so certain you'd "discovered" the absolute BEST way to get carbon out of a bore that a number of people apparently didn't want to answer, for whatever reason.
My experience involves prepping a number of bores down to bare steel for installation of Dyna Bore-Coat since it was introduced over 15 years ago. It requires the bore to be absolutely clean, and the fastest method I came up with after some experimentation was around 20 strokes of a tight bore brush wrapped in a cotton patch, then slathered with JB Bore-Cleaning Compound. Would be willing to bet that's quicker than a brush and Kroil, since I also have considerable experience with Kroil. The JB method takes about three minutes--and eventually became part of the directions for installing DBC, which is highly effective in preventing carbon build-up.
At least a couple of people also suggested highly effective carbon cleaner/solvents.
For also curious about what kind of scope you have on the rifle you used to shoot the half-inch group at 50 yards.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Here is something for those who don't use pressure testing equipment: After you get a barrel clean, velocity will usually stabilize by 5 firings. It takes 12-15 for pressure to stabilize. Yes...velocity can be stable and pressure still having some significant swings. Charlie
The data and opinions contained in these posts are the results of experiences with my equipment. NO CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DRAWN FROM ANY DATA PRESENTED, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT TO REPLICATE THESE RESULTSj
All I know about Sweets and Barnes is they are strong, and I've always heard to stick with less than 30 min. of soaking, not overnight.
The major active ingredient is ammonia, which has been used to dissolve copper fouling for well over a century. Sweets and Barnes CR-10 have a lot of ammonia, mixed with water and some other stuff. If you actually read the directions, both advise not leaving a single application in the bore for more than around 15 minutes, otherwise it can etch the bore.
Some of the newer copper-cleaners include oil, which prevents this, and can be left in the bore indefinitely with no problem, though they quit "working" within a day or so. Some also don't use ammonia.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
What's the consensus on shelf life for Sweet;s 7.62?
MM
Pretty much indefinately if it is sealed and has never been opened. If it has been opened much and not sealed well it will slowly die back. You can usually tell by the ammonia smell. Strong smell is good, if there isn't a strong ammonia smell it's weakened sometimes to the point of being useless.
You were so certain you'd "discovered" the absolute BEST way to get carbon out of a bore that a number of people apparently didn't want to answer, for whatever reason.
My experience involves prepping a number of bores down to bare steel for installation of Dyna Bore-Coat since it was introduced over 15 years ago. It requires the bore to be absolutely clean, and the fastest method I came up with after some experimentation was around 20 strokes of a tight bore brush wrapped in a cotton patch, then slathered with JB Bore-Cleaning Compound. Would be willing to bet that's quicker than a brush and Kroil, since I also have considerable experience with Kroil. The JB method takes about three minutes--and eventually became part of the directions for installing DBC, which is highly effective in preventing carbon build-up.
At least a couple of people also suggested highly effective carbon cleaner/solvents.
For also curious about what kind of scope you have on the rifle you used to shoot the half-inch group at 50 yards.
as I made note before I had already tried several things. and this happened to actually work for me it was unusual spot in the barrel that I've never seen before about 2 in long that the entire area in the lands and grooves were black almost like spray like spray like spray painted. and I'm taking note of every bit of other ideas in this thread..
I understand the bore paste is popular with a lot of people. personally I just don't like it that well. there is some in the cabinet..
the scope used is a Leipold AR 3-9x40 .. keep in mind this is on a mini-14.. and I know the parallax at that distance could be some issue. I finally found a load the mini liked a bit better then others .. I had never used 3031 in a . 223/5.66 before but its dure working here with 55gr bullets anyway .
i generally use just wipe-out but when the groups open up ,i then do as my friend who still shoots competition ,is a machinist and still builds rifles for bench rest shooters has told me to do= a kinda worn out bronze brush of same size as bore , wrap longer patch on brush and plenty JB compound cleaner on patch and scrubb the crap out of that barrel takes 1/2 - 1 hour then clean barrel with rubbing alcohol . my groups always improve after i have cleaned a barrel that is really dirty then. > do i really want to clean a barrel ? heck no my Ruger #1 257 Weatherby mag. has not been cleaned for 3 or 4 years , but i only take 1 or 2 shots now days before deer season , my Nightforce scope and this Brux barrel Ruger #1 seems to hold 1 inch above the 1 inch circle that is good enough for me , but when i shoot my bench rifles i can tell when they need the J B / brush treatment after many shots taken at the range. Pete53
i use cast bullets mostly, so i don't clean the barrel much. a properly fitted cast bullet and a gas check is all you need. my 444 Marlin and 30-40 Krag have shot 3000-4000 cast rounds each and once in a while i'll take a patch with Ballistol and run it down the bore about 4 or 5 times and then i'm done.
when i use cup-n-core (jacketed) bullets, i'll clean the rifle when its accuracy falls off. i use a TC Encore with a 23" MGM heavy factory barrel in 20 Vartarg that needs a cleaning when i'm about 100-125 shots. i've used Sweets, Shooters Choice, Gunslicks foaming bore cleaner and a whole bunch of other ones. i found out that copper solvents (don't matter which one) are #1 for cleaning. and if your lazy like me, Wipe Out and Gunslicks foaming bore cleaner are for you. just a push on the button and 1/2 - 1 hour later you need to patch it off. repeat if necessary. or you can plug up the rifle on the muzzle, put it vertically on the plug and it is either Shooters Choice or foaming bore cleaner (you have to it 3 or 4 times) and let it sit overnite.i use nylon brushes, i've gotton away from bronze brushes because my patches were still blueish green.
my dad (RIP) and the Army made me clean rifles religiously. "whenever you done shooting the rifle, you need to clean it" they used to say. i used to dread cleaning the rifles in the Army. now, i don't clean as much. a Ballistol rag on the outside of rifle and i'm done.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
Here is something for those who don't use pressure testing equipment: After you get a barrel clean, velocity will usually stabilize by 5 firings. It takes 12-15 for pressure to stabilize. Yes...velocity can be stable and pressure still having some significant swings. Charlie
Interesting! Charlie, could you expound more on this subject, when you have the inclination? A separate post would be neat so folks could find it easier. That is, if you are interested!
Here is something for those who don't use pressure testing equipment: After you get a barrel clean, velocity will usually stabilize by 5 firings. It takes 12-15 for pressure to stabilize. Yes...velocity can be stable and pressure still having some significant swings. Charlie
Interesting! Charlie, could you expound more on this subject, when you have the inclination? A separate post would be neat so folks could find it easier. That is, if you are interested!
PGoat Lets talk about that. Charlie
The data and opinions contained in these posts are the results of experiences with my equipment. NO CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DRAWN FROM ANY DATA PRESENTED, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT TO REPLICATE THESE RESULTSj
Here is something for those who don't use pressure testing equipment: After you get a barrel clean, velocity will usually stabilize by 5 firings. It takes 12-15 for pressure to stabilize. Yes...velocity can be stable and pressure still having some significant swings. Charlie
Interesting! Charlie, could you expound more on this subject, when you have the inclination? A separate post would be neat so folks could find it easier. That is, if you are interested!
That velocity stabilization seems to be more pronounced as a barrel wears it seems. But maybe that’s just individual barrels reacting differently.
the scope used is a Leipold AR 3-9x40 .. keep in mind this is on a mini-14.. and I know the parallax at that distance could be some issue. I finally found a load the mini liked a bit better then others .. I had never used 3031 in a . 223/5.66 before but its dure working here with 55gr bullets anyway .
So you "know the parallax at that distance could be some issue."
How did you deal with the parallax?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
the scope used is a Leipold AR 3-9x40 .. keep in mind this is on a mini-14.. and I know the parallax at that distance could be some issue. I finally found a load the mini liked a bit better then others .. I had never used 3031 in a . 223/5.66 before but its dure working here with 55gr bullets anyway .
So you "know the parallax at that distance could be some issue."
How did you deal with the parallax?
well I under first I understand bait when I get there..
but me in a situation like that is get my eye and watch The parallax move and try to place my eye as good as I can for what I'm dealing with..
now let's hear the rest of the story you're the gun Rider you're the pro I want to hear it.
for a price and it's not meant to disrespect you at all I absolutely hats off to you when your knowledge and things you've done but sometimes.. I've also on private shooting ranges chronographs borescopes all kinds of stuff for many years I just don't put my thoughts into words all that great sometimes.
let alone been paid for it and did articles or even better yet let alone been given stuff I bought all my stuff. don't get me wrong I'd buy you separate heartbeat to sit down and visit with you hats off all respect to you.. you must Believe before you achieve you must Believe
that was supposed to be supper not separate. talk to text bit me again about the old reading glasses it's hard for me to see this fine print.
I learned a trick from one of the guys at Leupold many years ago for eliminating parallax at shorter ranges with non-parallax adjustable scopes: While aiming, back your eye away from the eyepiece of the scope until a black ring appears evenly around the field of view. That eliminates the parallax.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I learned a trick from one of the guys at Leupold many years ago for eliminating parallax at shorter ranges with non-parallax adjustable scopes: While aiming, back your eye away from the eyepiece of the scope until a black ring appears evenly around the field of view. That eliminates the parallax.
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