Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles LPVO or red dot for general purpose and SHTF truck gun

Your experience is in line with most shooters for that type of shooting.

Bear with me here.

Good RDS have a slight advantage on mounted transitions. In the steel speed matches one typically does not break from the mount and the transtions from one target to the next are known. Each target needs one hit and the target does not react to the shot. If you wait to hear the strike you are way behind the curve.

It's a wash comparing the RDS and the LPVO, speed wise,for first round hits with mounting the rifle, from high ready or low ready.

It's also a wash if you unmount the gun during the transition from one target to the next and this would include shooter movement during a target transition or needing to shoot until the target was no longer a threat.

Now I actually have investigated target transition in combat and those I have spoken to have unmounted the rifle when transitioning. Current best practice is to keep shooting until the threat is no longer a threat. One needs to stay on on a target until it's no longer a target and then the rifle is unmounted while looking for another target. There was a time a few taught shooting a threat once and transition to another without assessing what your first shot did to the first target.

3 gun also teaches mounted transitions as we only need two bullet holes in the scoring rings but don't have to assess an effect on the target before transitioning to another target.

The RDS is a small bit faster for mounted transtions where there is no need to assess the effects of the rounds on target but once one needs to assess the effect on the target before transitioning to another target the LPVO just as fast.

I probably did a poor job here but mounted transitions vs unmounted transitions is a subject I find interesting.

Mackay and JB better articulate some things I attempted to point out about capabilities vs limitations between the two types. Bottom line: if there’s a situation and scenario where you need to be faster than today’s true 1x LPVOs , you either have the weapon already in a target ‘zone’ because it’s a shooting sport, and/or you don’t NEED a ‘sight’ at all, and shotgunning your setup is faster than either.

I can/have depended on both. The RD imparts far more restrictions upon use than the LPVO.

I keep futzing around with dots, prisms and scopes, and have finally realized that given time and a proper target, I can get good hits/groups with all of them. In the field and presumably under dire real-world circumstances, I may not get that time, and the targets are what they are. For me, that makes a real scope the best choice, and I’ll just have to suck it up over the weight and bulk. I have an Adams Arms P2 carbine upper in the pipeline, and it’ll get the best LPVO I have, the Credo HX 1-6.

For my house guns, they all have red dots on them including my shotguns and pistols.

For hunting guns, they have LPVO's.

Even though I prefer and use low power variables, I still use various other optics in multi use roles.

I have had a 4x ACOG with the original TAO1 reticle (which I still prefer over all the rest) for many years. It resides on a 16" Colt. On top of it is a mini RDO. It does house duty and in practicing with it at the range and in the field on various small game, I have found it to be an extremely effective combo. The RDO is set up to engage pretty much anything from point blank range to 50 yards. From 50 yards on out I transition to the ACOG.




While it lacks a little being only a 4x, in actual use, I have found it to be rather effective and quite fast. Aside from longer range stuff that is measured in hundreds of yards, I have found this combo to be pretty handy. For 200 yards and in, where a whole bunch of stuff seems to happen, it is a pretty good lightweight combo. For a truck/hunting/traveling gun, it is pretty handy too.

Mac,

That's how my duty weapon in Iraq was configured, and in pre-deployment training, it was blazing fast.

I may just go back to a version of that, say a 6XMQ with a red dot to the side.

Mac, That’s a whole lot of straight up common sense in that setup.

I had that same optic setup for a while, and if you can go that route, you can go well beyond 200 if you have to. That covers bases very well. one of my favorite setups was an old 1x/4x Elcan I scavenged. That thing could get beaten with a sledgehammer and still let me go indoors or plink a ridge, with a simple flip of that lever. Heavy? as hell. LOL

I had the TA33-g that was only a 3x ACOG but it let me bang 7” steel plates out to 700 yards. My daughter took that gun over after killing a few deer with it. It’s a Colt 6720 with the same Troy rail and built in flip up front sight.

But after a few years my eyes got so bad the reticle would not focus for me. Now that I have glasses I might try another one.

This has been a pretty good discussion.

The thing is a shtf gun isn't the same for everyone just like a truck gun means different things to different people.

My choice for trouble is an ar pistol with an eotech with a Cloud OWL. My truck guns usually have magnifying optics and 16" in an AR15 but often I keep a bolt gun in the truck.

I’ve taught three days of LPVO classes in the last week

19 shooters with everything from 4x ACOGs to 1-4/6s, 3x magnifiers, to 4-14s with offset dots.

Everyone shot equally on the single close range drill we do. Nobody had trouble with 8” plates at 200 and in or C Zone plates at 300. For 8” plates at 300 yards shooters could get hits at 300 with any magnification, but they needed some sort of stadia line.

As soon as we added photo realistic targets and required target discrimination the 4x optics were useless beyond 175ish yards. 6x got people to 250.

The magnification isn’t about hitting targets, it’s about making sure you’re hitting the right target. And shooting steel on the range doesn’t evaluate that.

^ this is an excellent observation and jibes with my experience varmint hunting with iron sights. Hitting a groundhog at 100-200 yards isn’t that hard, even with iron sights. Seeing a groundhog that blends in with the color of the hayfield is. Seeing the portion of the groundhog you want to hit is even harder. Aiming at it with an iron sight or dot is even harder than that. I would imaging it would be the same in the context of combat. No one is just standing around just waiting to be clapped. They are moving and hiding and trying to blend in.

If I had to try to ensure I missed something past 200, I’d probably jump to 2-10 or 3-9, with an offset dot….to cover all other bases.

Blue, which do you prefer clearing a house?

If it were a gun that would be strictly used for inside houses or across a front yard I’d use a dot or Eotech.

^^^^ sure, and I’d even be perfectly fine with irons and a light.

Not sure there’s many ‘wrong’ answers hereabouts, as long as you can run your gun, whatever the gun.

Blue's clarification on the purpose of the magnification is spot on. How well can you shoot an offset red dot on a rifle? Which off set red dot would you recommend?

I spent a good number of days hunting in sodak with a red dot this fall.

My offhand shooting is a lot better inside of 100 yards with a dot over an lpvo.

But man it’s not ez to shoot whitetails in brush at 200 yards in harsh lighting.

Swfa 3-9 with a good red dot is the only two birds stoned at once rig.

And that is exactly why my SBR has a Holosun with 65MOA circle and 2MOA dot. In the house and across the yard to a specific neighbor I expect trouble to come from. Purpose built. Not for hunting. 150yds would be stretching it's intended use.

dang!

I've lived near some questionable people, but never one that I made up a dedicated shooter for.