Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Winchester WLR primers still undersized:

Here it is, 2024 and the WLR primers are the same old undersized garbage.

Lot# ULL840G.

Obviously a micrometer would be the best tool for measurement, but it's enough of a difference to FEEL with a hand priming tool and to see when checking with calipers. WLR primers seat with very little pressure. Seating the CCI primers, it's a tight fit.

The WLR primers measure .210".

For reference, the CCI BR2 primers measured .211"

Was working up a 325 grain norma oryx load and all was well at 55-58 grains of N150. Probably all of 50,000 psi. As I worked up to 62 grains, you could see the gas leakage on the case head, and see slight flame-cutting damage on the bolt face.

No such issues with the tighter fitting CCI primers, even at same 62 grains of powder.

Everything extracted like butter. 2300 fps @ 62 grains of N150.

No surprise. I bought 200 of their 64 grain bullets and they fell right thru the neck of the brass when I went to seat them

What'd Winchester say?

I had the issue 10-15 years ago, sent in bad primers and I think I may have gotten a check.

Too many other primers out there to deal with them. I still have a good bit of their silver colored primers but no thanks on their gold primers.

10 gauge, I won't even bother dealing with winchester. Gave them a shot, they were the only available primers locally and I'm darn-near out of primers.

Just hoping to save anyone from considering these. They might be ok in something like a 30-30 winchester.

Just happened to me today on my like new Kimber Mountain Ascent. My bolt face is scarred as well. I called Olin to see if they will do anything. Waiting on a call back.

In the meantime, I'll be pulling bullets and popping those primers out.

Yours are much older primers. The ones that we all knew had issues. The OP's is new manufacture. This is good info, but I don't know how .001" would make any difference. My girlfriend bought me 3 bricks a while back, but I have not even opened them yet. We shall see..

I would want my $$ back at least.

Geeze longshot, these shortages are awful. We shooters are mixing and matching sht we'd never buy under normal circumstances.

Kinda desperate, there is nothing available for primers. So trying something new here:

I just did up a batch of WLR primed brass using loctite klean n prime and loctite 680 retaining compound. With a q tip, I used the cleaner to swab the primer pocket then a thin film of 680 only on the sides of the primer pockets. Using a decapping tool it took alot more pressure to pop out the WLR primers sealed in place with 680. Inspecting the primers, the thin layer of 680 stayed on the primer pocket and never congregated near the primer compound.

Loctite 680 is a retaining compound designed for cylindrical interfaces where machining tolerances might be loose. It's saved the fkn day before:

Used on a ported chainsaw where the flywheel would spin loose above 13,000 rpms. Torqued the flywheel on the taper shaft using 680, never fkn came loose again. I cleaned the flywheel with Klein n prime, and just a dab of the loctite 680 on the tapered crankshaft, it ain't ever coming off.

Another time, rebuilt my high-pressure oil pump in the 7.3 powerstroke. A year later, the high pressure oil line fitting loosened up. These fittings are under thousands of lbs of oil pressure. Loctite 680 is required on the fittings. Never spun lose again.

I'll shoot a batch of ammo with these loctite 680-sealed WLR primers and report back tomorrow. I'll stay at 58 grains of powder, even if I'm sacrificing 100 fps. Wait one........

I'll be checking back in for sure. I hope it works!

I too am a bit surprised that .001" matters as much as it does. So here goes: when our handloads are pushing beyond 50,000 psi here's the difference:

Would you want a WLR primer that starts seating at a mere 3.5-4 lbs of pressure on the lever of a hand priming tool?

Or a CCI primer that takes 7.75-8 lbs of pressure on the hand priming tool?

Like I said, I could feel the difference and see the difference on my fkn bolt face.

WLR:


CCI:

Damn I wish this came up a few weeks ago. I thought I was lucky finding the 1000 I bought. I never used them before. Does factory Winchester loads do this?

OK, kinda hard to measure:

With a decapping die in the press, the WLR primer took 2.5 lbs of pressure on the press handle to remove the primer from a new brass case.

The CCI BR2 primer took 8 lbs of pressure on the press handle to remove primer from the new brass case.

The WLR sealed in loctite 680 took 4.5lbs of pressure on the press handle to remove the primer from a new brass case.

This was after only 1 hr of cure time. I'll decap a few more after they cure over night and measure how much pressure it takes to remove the WLR primers.

Yeah, that sucks man. I have always used CCI primers. But like a lot of you guys, my stock was getting a little low (3,000 of each type), because we shoot a lot!!! I ended up buying some CCI 34's, so I can use those in my AR10 6.5 Creedmoor, and then my girlfriend must have herd me grumbling about the price ($67.00 at the time with a 15% off sale at Scheels last year), so she bought me 3 bricks of these WLR's for $74.99/brick. I used to load WLR's in my buddies stuff. Hell, I even kept the CCI 200's I found for $1/100 (bought 2 bricks of those for $20 a few years ago at a gunshow), and use those at times. Those are 70's manufacture. Getting down to a few thousand of each kind of primer is cause for concern for guys like us that shoot. I hate to say it, but I've even backed off on how many rounds I send downrange. Been shooting 22lr more as well. I'll burn up 400 of those each range trip, if I'm not careful... Same goes for 223 rem, when I'm shooting my AR's..

I may not dip into these WLR's, and just use the CCI's I have on hand. Maybe sell the WLR's off to someone that really needs them???

[quote=mainer_in_ak]10 gauge, I won't even bother dealing with winchester. Gave them a shot, they were the only available primers locally and I'm darn-near out of primers.

Just hoping to save anyone from considering these. They might be ok in something like a 30-30 winchester.[/quote

Mainer,
Give me a call when coming to town. I can help you with enough good primers to get through hunting season.

V8n

I have 5000 older WLR and the same of WLRM, loaded some 250 TTSX with them last night. They were right tight.
I typically find Rem 9 ½ to be the smallest of all primers

Thanks vern, I'll take you up on the offer. I'm gonna save these primers for 308 winchester target ammo.

This morning I've been looking at the tech data sheets for common primer sealants. Most are a modified arcrylic ester. Well that's the same darn thing as this here loctite 680.

These WLR primers will work, if a handloader is willing to seal them. Your token "gun writer" on here claimed there's no reason to seal primers. In this instant, I call bllsht on that........

BSA, no bud don't get rid of them or sell them. Measure them first and test 1 primer per 100 count sleeve in some brass.

If you're willing to seal them, they'll work great. Have a decapping die set up. Because no joke, every so often an occasional WLR primers is especially loose fitting. We're talking like 1-2 lbs of pressure on the hand priming lever!

Save the especially loose primer after decapping an make sure to measure it, to see if it was even smaller than .210. Measure the primer pocket of that specific brass case as well.

I'm in no position to give up on these WLR primers. They're all thats available.

Do you actively search for things to complain about? If it's that big of a deal, switch primers or use a gun that uses other primers or shoot factory ammo. Worrying about sealing primers is retarded.

I'm just amazed you found LR primers. I haven't seen them but once in 4 years.

Nope, but let's be honest here, in the gun world there sure is alot of narrow minded garbage written as fact, when it's really just opinion.

I'm gonna seal 1000 of these primers in target ammo. No skin off my back.....

I called Olin Corp about my problem primers and they told me to send them all back. They are going to replace them with new primers. I'll seal the new ones too!

I sent pix of my bolt face and they said that Winchester will pay for the repair if Kimber says it needs repaired.

Not too shabby!

Thanks for posting that. I'll have to tell my buddy. He has an Extreme Weather that he fd the bolt face up on, because of the old WLR primers that were bad/leaking.

i have old Win LRP (made in the early Obummer years) that i still use. i don't have problem with them. they were $30/1000 so bought alot of them. i got some Federal LRP in Trump years ($30/1000) but there still in safe. i bought Fiocca SRP last year, $70-75/1500, but all the CCI SRP are probably going to my sons when i die.

They will need to see the brass, primers and the lot number of the primers, along with pictures of the bolt face. If he has all that, I'm sure they will work with him.

Tag

If you are using Federal fired brass…. It ain’t the primers.

Federal and Nosler brass. Primers from the same lot number. Both brands had exactly the same issue.

Gawd I miss the years passed, where I was stacked with Lapua brass and CCI BR2 primers.

It's all gone now.

Yep. While talking with Olin, they couldn't tell me why the shelves were flush with primers. Said they are making more product than there were pre-Covid.

No issues with mine this morning
Must be old enough they they're pre-problem
I didn't see any improvement over Fed 210s though

I have a case of them. Be a long time until I'd ever get to them. Mine are older than Mainer's, so hard to say if there will be an issue or not.

Maybe I should dig some out and try them. Might be better to find out now. I don't have an issue with sealing primers if that takes care of it, and also have lower pressure rifles like 30-30's and 35 Remington's they can be used in, but I'd need another lifetime to use them up on those.

Does sealing them with glue keep them from flame cutting the bolt face??

Dennis, went out last night and shot off 9.3x62 325 grain oryx. WLR primers sealed with loctite 680. Ran the loads up towards high pressure where brass began flowing into the ejector cut out.

Not a single fkn primer loosened or leaked.

When I decapped the primers, the 680 loctite was still green, no black soot in the sides of the primer pocket.

Again, I've looked at the technical data sheets. 680 is the same chemical composition as various primer sealants.

I timed how much extra time it took to swab the primer pocket with a q tip. For handloading 50 brass, it added 3 minutes to the reloading process.

Decapping loctite 680 primers cured for 24 hours, was back up to 7-8 lbs of pressure on the reloading press handle to decap a WLR primers. Roughly the same pressure to remove a CCI primer.

In current times, I ain't getting rid of these primers.....

Good info there. Thanks for sharing. I'm certainly not getting rid of my current WLR's either!

Winchester and Leupold are a perfect match…

Those old silver WW’s were great. Still have some.

Never got the gold ones. Had heard they weren’t as good. Use CCI and Fed. Good thing I have some.

DF

I have 4000 Winchester LR primers in the blue box that I don’t trust. At least one of the lots was on the list started here. Still using the old white box LR primers. I should call Winchester with the lot numbers and see what they say.

Mine are in a white box
I would not have guessed that dealing with locktite would keep the pressure from leaking

Mainer,
Good info.

Thing is I have 3 bricks of WLR’s bought in Trump’s first year that seem to be oversized. They are so tight trying to seat in Lapua and Sig brass that I can barely get them in with my old style Lee hand tool. I resort to my RCBS bench tool.

Although they work great with some wore out WW brass……

I have 500 Winchester LR and 1,000 LRM blue box primers that I seem to recall checking the defective lot numbers against. I’ll use them if I ever run out of Fed 210, 215, or Rem 91/2M’s, which is not likely in my lifetime.

Hated to break open a sealed up case, but had to check. Checked them against CCI 200. I'll be dipped if they aren't indeed slightly smaller. .0005-.001 smaller than the CCI according to my digital calipers.

Seated one in a case that had the primer pocket uniformed, can't say it seated noticeably easier. Am using a RCBS universal hand primer. If it wasn't for the measurement difference I can't say I'd notice. So I still don't know if they will need sealed or not.

I've bought new production Win WLRs and CCI-200's. CCI goes 0.211" dia and WLR goes 0.210.

I loaded some Win .338 cases today with Win magnum primers of fairly recent vintage. I prime with a RCBS bench mounted priming tool. They fit tight and required notably more pressure to seat than most. No problems when I fired them, but the load was fairly mild.

I still haven't figured out why someone would risk life, limb, and eyesight by gluing primers into their brass when they could order correct primers from Gunbroker (some sellers will even ship to Alaska).

Prarie_twatt,


That's is the funniest sht I've read from you to date. Life limb and injury, from a loose primer.

Have you ever experienced a handload where the primer pocket loosened up?

Holy sht, what a mangina, spinless fk you really are!

Since I go through 308 target ammo quite quickly, I'll have all of the 1000 308 target bullets shot up soon (primers sealed in loctite 680).

I'll report back on "life, limb and injury" Holy sht, I'll be laughing for DAYS. Thanks.

Yes, leaky/blown primers can and have caused life altering injuries. Warning about the situation might save someone else who deserves to keep their body parts intact.

Which was precisely the reason for this thread, you fking idiot.

I'm not the guy who tried gluing in his primers.

I've used a bunch of WLR and WSR primers over the years and haven't had any problems. I did have some of the ones known for piercing a few years back. I contacted Winchester and they told me to send them in and they'd replace them, which they promptly did.

Judging by your other posts, you couldnt handle a single grain of sand on yer clit. It'd be too dangerous.


Primer sealants come in 5 gallon buckets and 55 gallon drums. Used to seal millions of rounds of ammo. You make zero fking sense, as usual.