Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 375 Whelen Imp vrs 400 Whelen Imp?

I have a sauer 202 in 30-06 and plan to put together a few extra barrels for it one being 6.5-06 and the other not sure what way to go. The 400 Whelen sounds very interesting but not sure how much the gain would be over the 375 Whelen?
Hoping someone here has experience with both and can comment. Seems the 375 would be easier to form brass for? I already have the 375 dies as well.

Thanks Chris

depends on what you plan to do with it. They're really not that similar except the name. You can form 375 by necking up 06 or whelen brass, the 400 not as easy. Much better to start with cylinder brass and neck DOWN.

Get both, frankly. The 375 picks up where the 30-06 steps off on the 220-300 range, an the 400 goes 300-400gr. The 375 makes a great medium bore that is pretty flexible depending on your bullet choice, with something like the 250-260gr range of bullets like the TSX, Accubond, SGK, or boutique bullets. the 400 is like a baby big bore, but still capable of pushing decently past 2100 fps with a fat heavy bullet.

So I have an expander that opens 348 winchester to 416
May try it on a 35 whelen case and see what happens

[spoiler][/spoiler]When I built my 375 Whelen AI, I formed cases in a couple of ways. The first I tried, was to make the case cylindrical. I lost one case that way. But I thought that was the correct way to creat a “go” gauge. Because I chambered it and didn’t find an go gage. After that I opened the neck to 375 and fire formed, I lost no cases that way.
I chose 375, because of the availability of bullets and bullet molds. Plus I had a couple other 375’s. I’m not sure what I’d need the 400 for, though I’m thinking of building one.
The 400 is likely the most powerful cartridge on the ‘06 case.
Consider what bullets you’d use and if you would size 416 bullets down if you choose the 400.
Either way it would be great fun.

BTW, I used a Shaw barrel and it is accurate.

35 Whelen seems to be the sweet spot ...

I’ve had both. My 375 Was the standard Whelen, not the AI. All 400 Whelen are an improved case. The 400 Whelen was never a 30-06 necked up with no improvement. Mike Petrov covers that well in his article dispelling the headspace myth of the 400 Whelen. If you can’t find a copy I can send a scan to you.

I went with the standard 375 Whelen because I really couldn’t see enough more performance to merit going with the AI.

I kept the 400 Whelen and sold the 375. Partly because the 400 is left handed. The 375 was a right handed Sedgley with a terrible bore. Reboring it saved the original barrel and made a nice vintage medium bore. It shot everything from 235-300 grains well. The 270 and 300 grain bullets got a little sporty but manageable. The other reason for selling it was I felt it was redundant at the time. I have a 35 and 400 Whelen and felt I glad that ground well covered.

The 400 is a joy to me. It duplicates the 450/400 in a magazine rifle. I don’t know for certain if that was Townsend’s objective but it certainly was the outcome. I’ve killed two caribou and one moose with mine. All one shot kills.

I often wish I had kept the 375 Whelen, if for no other reason than to have all three Whelens.

What are the chances of borrowing a few 400 whelen dummies to see if they will even fit in my magazine?
Have you tried to make the 400 by oversizing and then full length? Is there enough brass there to work with?
Thanks Chris

I've had a .338-06 (killed my first bull elk with it about 1990), a couple of .35 Whelens, a .35 Whelen Improved, a .375 Whelen Improved and a .411 Hawk (basically a .400 Whelen). Lots of fun working with all of them years ago, but I miss none of them. Whoever said regular .35 Whelen gave the best answer.

I’d be happy to send a few dummies. Shoot me a pm.

I’ve made 400 Whelen brass by just about every method except hydraulic forming. I started out with 06 military match brass and cream of wheat. It worked fine. I picked up a CH4D expander set, 30-35 and 35 to 416. With that I made 400 Whelen from both 06 and 35 Whelen brass. It still required fire forming.

There is enough brass after going up to 416 and back down to 411. The necks will be a sniff shorter than QC or Norma basic but not enough to matter.

When I finally got my dies I used Quality Cartridge 400 Whelen brass and Norma 30-06 basic brass. Both cylindrical.

My first loadings were done with fire forming and neck sizing in a 41 mag die. In fact the first caribou fell to a load put together in that fashion. With the rifle still in the white.

Col. Whelen did not have much to do with the .375 Whelen other than his name was put upon it.
He was full facilitator for the .35 and .40 bores, IIRC.
I would save the .375-caliber for the H&H, it has enough competition from the Ruger.
It is not that big an improvement over the .35 Whelen, which needs no improvement in its current SAAMI guise.
It really ought to be legal for all DG wherever the 9.3x62mm and .375 H&H are.
So-called "Improved" versions of all the "Whelens" are a waste of time/money.
I have tried to improve the .400 Whelen of Michael Petrov's final rendition.
Can't say I succeeded.
Basically, all I could do was throat it a little longer and seat bullets longer than will fit in a 3.4" magazine box.
Just attention seeking behavior on my part.







The JGS reamer shown here is good too:



The handloading dies that are good for rifles reamed with either of those two reamers:

Here is the original article by Townsend Whelen,
small files but received by email from Michael Petrov,
best he could get hold of before he passed, R.I.P.

Here is the best way to make brass,
a backward .41 Magnum 210-gr bullet jammed into the rifling to headspace,
and enough of any powder on hand to fully form the case.
A full steam load can then be used for hunting.
The R-P .35 Whelen new brass was annealed, necked up, loaded (.41 RM dies will do for starters) and then fire-formed:





After the slightly short .400 Whelen brass made from R-P .35 Whelen,
you graduate to the full length cylindrical stuff and life is good,
you still have to trim them to 2.490" maximum to be safe with the proper reamer and dies.





Yep, it is a .450/.400 Nitro Express 3-Inch from an '06 case and rifle.

I present the correct specs here to atone from possibly confusing them myself in the past.

Yes, you can push .416 bullets through the LEE or CH4D base-pusher dies.
You will have some spring-back so take the .416/350-gr TTSX down to .409" in 3 steps if you want it to be shootable at .411" diameter.

I’m not sure why anyone would consider the AI a waste of money. It’s basically the same. They are all wildcats. What’s a waste of money?

Well if that don't bugger all !

The 400 Whelen with a 300 grain bullet will have the ballistics (and rough powder capacity) as the 375 H&H with a 300grain bullet and similar with 350grs as well. As mentioned, with 400 grainers it makes 450-400 NE ballistics.

Since you have a .416 expander (and probably a 30/06 die), that expander screwed on your decapping stem (if like brands) and inserted in the die from the bottom and raised a bit into the die can be used to adequately neck up 35 Whelen brass shoulders beyond std 30/06 shoulder dimensions, then ran into the FL 400 Whelen die adjusted for positive headspace. You'll still need to fireform to make them "look" right, but not for headspace or function and without the need for other components.

Redding tapered .416 expanders (and 30/06 dies) are what I use.

Norma makes extremely concentric 35 brass and it makes dandy 400 Whelens.

Have not done the 375 Whelen.

Curious about the 400 caliber bullets sized from .416.

I’d think the jacket might spring back some. Yet I have not read any comments on that.