Bullet placement trumps all else but I understand your feelings. The 1911 in the pic looks really good. That AR would be very effective defending home and hearth. Practice ammo is easier to acquire and cheap. Enjoy them!
' Sometimes called a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) That one looks like it takes Glock mags. I have one that takes modified Uzi mags. The trouble with them is at the range, you mow down all the targets in a few seconds. Good clean fun though.
' Sometimes called a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) That one looks like it takes Glock mags. I have one that takes modified Uzi mags. The trouble with them is at the range, you mow down all the targets in a few seconds. Good clean fun though.
Nope. Not a PCC. Not a carbine of any variety. A pistol. That's why it doesn't require a tax stamp.
I remember in the mid 80s when the 9mm started gaining traction and replacing police revolvers, I swore that I'd never own one of the pip-squeaks. I own 4 handguns and one rifle in 9mm today. They get it done, inexpensively and with little fuss.
I remember in the mid 80s when the 9mm started gaining traction and replacing police revolvers, I swore that I'd never own one of the pip-squeaks. I own 4 handguns and one rifle in 9mm today. They get it done, inexpensively and with little fuss.
I remember back in the revolver days, cops I knew used to hate 9mm. They thought of them as criminal guns, and believed they could pass through anything. They thought they should be outlawed.
This always baffled me, and I'd assure them that their .38s were just about as powerful. One I said that to admitted that it was the high capacity of some of them that they didn't like people being able to have, assuming that if they were outlawed, criminals wouldn't be able to have them.
Geez, recently I was gifted a couple thousand 9mm cases, half of which are sized and primed, a couple heavy boxes full of commercially cast 9mm bullets (must be a couple thousand of them too), and a set of dies - and I don't even own a 9mm pistol. It got my wheels turning that maybe I should snag a C&R-elligible Browning High Power so as to utilize that bounty of free stuff. Dammit.
A Browning HP is really about the only 9mm that has interested me (well maybe a SIG Neuhausen P210 but now we're talking to rich for my blood), and a half century of gun looniness has gone by without me ever scratching that itch. Maybe it's time. Had a couple Lugers and a couple P-38's along the way but they didn't really do anything for me. A modern "black gun" like y'all go on about would be ok but I'm an old fart now and my tastes have solidified around nothing but "old school stuff" anymore.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
In the 80's when the 1911 and the .45 ACP were considered the Kings of Everything Everywhere in alphabet combat games, folks with new wonder 9's started cleaning the clocks of folks shooting 45's, so much so that they had to hamstring the 9mm by classifying Major and Minor calibers for scoring purposes.
So dedicated shooters whose skills were far above the average - IOW you'd think shooting a .45 would be child's play to them - starting souping up .38 Supers to make Major but keep the lower recoil of the lower weight 9mm bullets. Ease of hitting accurately was considered more important than raw foot pounds of energy.
Same thing was seen in revolver matches where .38 Specials were the norm, not full power .357 Magnums. Even Dirty Harry used lighter loaded .44 Specials in The Most Powerful Handgun in the World.
Placement, with "enough" performance, is still the primary factor in defensive shooting, or hunting for that matter.
The 9mm and .38 Special both hit that sweet spot of enough power without too much recoil so it's easy to see why they are so popular. Plus these days you can carry umpteen 9mm bullets in one magazine and still keep it easily concealed.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
' Sometimes called a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) That one looks like it takes Glock mags. I have one that takes modified Uzi mags. The trouble with them is at the range, you mow down all the targets in a few seconds. Good clean fun though.
Nope. Not a PCC. Not a carbine of any variety. A pistol. That's why it doesn't require a tax stamp.
Don't take the bait.
Mr lawyer worded that "Mighty cute SBR, you got there." to get a response. Just like Slavek/Maser does. Just ignore that crap and enjoy the thread and the forum in general without paying attention to certain members.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
I'm not a 9mm fan, but the ammo is cheaper than .45 by a factor of two, and I like to shoot a lot. Somehow or other, I've ended up with seven of the things, one is a Smith folding carbine (a lot of fun), one is kept in the truck and I don't care much for it (but it always works), and the others are 1911s that I can swap barrels in, and also shoot .38 Super, which I do, often enough (if you reload, it's the same price to shoot .38 Super as it is 9mm, about half the price of .45). Oh yeah, I've got a Hi Power clone that's fun to shoot, too. HPs are just plain fun.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
Even Dirty Harry used lighter loaded .44 Specials in The Most Powerful Handgun in the World.
Clint Eastwood was actually supposed to say “a special, light load," (meaning a lighter than full Magnum load of .44 Magnum), but he accidentally flipped two of the words in the script when they were filming, so it came out as "a light Special load," which gun-savvy viewers wrongly took to mean that he carried light-loaded .44 Special rounds (i.e., even lighter than standard .44 Special) in his .44 Magnum. He actually, according to the scripted words, carried .44 Magnum rounds that were somewhat downloaded to somewhat tame the recoil.
I have carried heavy, hardcast 9mm when protecting the Minions in areas that are well known for the Mountain Lion population One or two bears around two..:
In fact I was carrying my old Gen 2 G17 loaded with hardcast 148+Ps when I had a big kitty start following me, as I was packing out elk quarters a few years back. Big kitty was in the same brushy narrow draw, and I with a big heavy back on, I was glad to have the Glock 9mm in hand. Was glad to get out into the open further down below with each load of meat.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
' Sometimes called a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) That one looks like it takes Glock mags. I have one that takes modified Uzi mags. The trouble with them is at the range, you mow down all the targets in a few seconds. Good clean fun though.
Nope. Not a PCC. Not a carbine of any variety. A pistol. That's why it doesn't require a tax stamp.
' Yep, the OP shows a pistol configuration (important for ATF purposes). The market calls this class of firearm a pistol caliber carbine whether it's a short barreled rifle or 16"+ barreled carbine/rifle.
Yep, the OP shows a pistol configuration (important for ATF purposes). The market calls this class of firearm a pistol caliber carbine whether it's a short barreled rifle or 16"+ barreled carbine/rifle.
No one calls it a carbine of any variety, unless they are trying to stir up trouble.
Yep, the OP shows a pistol configuration (important for ATF purposes). The market calls this class of firearm a pistol caliber carbine whether it's a short barreled rifle or 16"+ barreled carbine/rifle.
No one calls it a carbine of any variety, unless they are trying to stir up trouble.
In the 80's when the 1911 and the .45 ACP were considered the Kings of Everything Everywhere in alphabet combat games, folks with new wonder 9's started cleaning the clocks of folks shooting 45's, so much so that they had to hamstring the 9mm by classifying Major and Minor calibers for scoring purposes.
So dedicated shooters whose skills were far above the average - IOW you'd think shooting a .45 would be child's play to them - starting souping up .38 Supers to make Major but keep the lower recoil of the lower weight 9mm bullets. Ease of hitting accurately was considered more important than raw foot pounds of energy.
Where did that version of history come from - Glock Talk?
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. Robert Frost
1911s weren’t popular until the Clinton Gun Ban in 1994.
Completely resurrected the platform
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
20 years ago caught myself with four 9mm pistols. Sold or traded 3 of them. 40, preferably bigger for me. Fast forward 20, maybe 30 years & grip isn't as good & joints not as crazy about recoil.
The 9mm pistol count here now up to about 8. More comfort, which can help with extended training, & faster follow up shots a big plus, hit factor better. As REO Speed Wagon said; ya got ta roll with the changes.
Geez, recently I was gifted a couple thousand 9mm cases, half of which are sized and primed, a couple heavy boxes full of commercially cast 9mm bullets (must be a couple thousand of them too), and a set of dies - and I don't even own a 9mm pistol. It got my wheels turning that maybe I should snag a C&R-elligible Browning High Power so as to utilize that bounty of free stuff. Dammit.
A Browning HP is really about the only 9mm that has interested me (well maybe a SIG Neuhausen P210 but now we're talking to rich for my blood), and a half century of gun looniness has gone by without me ever scratching that itch. Maybe it's time. Had a couple Lugers and a couple P-38's along the way but they didn't really do anything for me. A modern "black gun" like y'all go on about would be ok but I'm an old fart now and my tastes have solidified around nothing but "old school stuff" anymore.
Girsan makes an excellent high power copy that won't break the bank.
Getting ready to head to work. I have a Glock 37.3 in 45 GAP with a Holosun 507C on it in my holster. I am still a huge 45 fan. The comment about the popularity of the 1911 starting during the Clinton Gun Ban may be a hair off. I have owned a 1911 since around 1975. Virtually everyone I hang with has also owned a 1911 for ever. The selection of 9mm handguns was not that great for a very long time. Next problem was not feeding HP ammo that was worth carrying. I would need to do some research, but a good guess would be that the 9mm gained traction with the 6 series S&W handguns.
Back to 9mm. I bought my first 9mm in 1974 when I first got into Law Enforcement. It was a commercial P35 Hi-Power. Accuracy was TERRIBLE and it would not feed anything that did not look like Ball Ammo. It was promptly traded for a S&W Model 28 Revolver. That was my last 9mm until I bought a Ruger SP101. The ammunition would not stay in the Moon Clips pocket carried, so it was traded also.
In the last couple months I have bought a Glock 17.5 and a Glock 19.5. I have upgraded the sights to Vickers Rear Battle Sights, and Fiber Optic Front Sight's I have added the extended controls to both. I even bought a set of Dillon Dies in 9mm. That was a shock, when did Dillon Dies get to be $150 a set? Every one on our Church Security Team is carrying a 9mm except me. I thought I would get on board and shoot the same cheap ammunition. Another factor was brass loss during training. No big deal not gathering up my 9mm. I can always pick up more. On the other hand I hate to not gather up 40 S&W, 45acp, and 45GAP brass when I fire it. Today 95% of the Range Brass I find is 9mm. I did a little soul searching, and reasoning. I never really felt under armed carrying a 38 Special. A 9mm handgun is basically a 38 Special performance wise, with 3X the Ammunition on Board. With Modern Ammunition the 9mm's performance is probably good enough to get the job done.
Yeah, when I first started shooting handguns in 1980, the 1911 was a classic, and highly desirable. In fact, one of the first guns I placed on order at the local gun shop was a Colt Lightweight Commander in .45 ACP. I think a year went by, and they couldn't get me one. It was that popular, and this was long before Bill Clinton. I settled for a Mk IV Series 70 Government Model .45, which the store had no trouble getting in.
The only reason I own a 9mm is because ammo is common and would be easy to find in a pinch. It's a prep more than anything. The best thing I can say about 9mm is that having a gun is better than not having a gun.
Yep, not a fan of the 9mm but I've got 3, a compact, midsize and full size. Shield, Glock 19, and Berretta M9. Just makes sense with any ammo availability concerns to have a couple of 9s.
[bleep] boys I just might add another one tomorrow. road trip planned to a gun shop a little over an hour from home and they are advertising one of the new Tisas 2011 models and it's getting rave reviews.
it's actually the cheaper of the two tisas 2011 models the more expensive when the reviews are kind of mixed..
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