Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Accuracy....Bergers vs Hornady

I've had excellent results with hornady eld-m bullets in the 6.5 creedmoor. I'm thinking about trying berger with a bullet pointing die but man are they expensive.

Goals?
Comp shooting? If so, what type?
Hunting?

Powder and charge.
Rifle.
Shooter.
Both will fly.

If it ain`t broke...

If it ain't broke, fix it til it is....

Comp shooting. I have a Tikka CTR 24" set up in a Bravo KRG chassis. I'm thinking PRS or something similar. My rifle is right at 12 lbs and I'm not sure what weight restrictions are

We also have a lot of local things we do with a group of us so always on the search for improvements. On the list at the moment is I'll be trying a few different firing pin springs, possibly the berger bullets and it would be nice to find a few forum members who are doing some competition shooting in Montana, Idaho, or Washington that are interested in meeting a Montana boy who new to competing

😂😂😂 Lol, isn't that how it usually goes? If I don't try to break it how am I going to learn?

The rifle is a 24" Tikka CTR in a bravo chassis. My current load is 45.3 grains of reloader 23 with a 140 grain hornady eld-m useing the small primer lapua brass with CCI 450s. Velocity is 2750 fps with a 32 fps ES. I would have used H4350 but it was unavailable. I did round some up so planning to use it

Typical 5-shot group at 100 yards with the 140 M's is half MOA or better?

As a local group we shoot at 1000 yards a lot and with some lots of the hornadys it's hard to get the vertical really tight due to inconsistent bullet lengths. I'm thinking possibly bergers and a bullet pointing die to true up BCs. We are a pretty competitive group of shooters and I'm always interested in expanding my knowledge. Basically I'm bored and I also want to win at our local fun matches. I basically posted the question to see what others have found at longer ranges with berger vs hornady. I do have around 1400 of the hornadys so will no doubt still play with them a fair amount, probably even use them In some competitions where I'm not trying to reach out to 1000.

Basically I'm being extremely anal and counting inches to satisfy my OCD and competitive spirit as well

32fps ES is doing vertical NO fhuqking favors,but certainly is fhuqking FUNNY! Hint.

Just sayin'.............

Well, you have already figured it out then...Try the Berger's and other boutique bullets.

I use Hornady for a lot of things, but if I want the tightest consistent groups possible at distance on paper (1K BR and F-Open) or steel, I will use Berger or a boutique bullet.

Example: F-Open 180 Hybrid and F-TR started with the 200 grain Hybrid, then moved to the 200.20X
My lightweight 1K bench pistol (Batman) 105 Hybrids
My heavyweight pistol used to run 180 grain JLK's. Different chambering now and I'm running the 190 LR Hybrid

Your OCD must not be that bad if you are happy with an ES of 32. What brass you using? Listen to my amigo stick when he says you are doing yourself no favors when it comes to vertical string with that high of an ES.

Ditto on the ES

This is a guy who constantly has input and likes to argue about long range shooting and scope choices, but outs himself as completely clueless with this post

Perfect

Thanks, much appreciated! That's what I was looking for

For you guys that are so worried about vertical dispersion with a 34 fps ES it's only an extra 6" If sighted in the middle that's 3" high or 3" low. The problem is I didn't have access to H4350 so was forced to use RL 23 with my load which is not an optimal powder in my rifle for great ES numbers. H4350 was unobtainium for some time. Part of what I did to combat vertical dispersion was I did my seating depth testing with the Scott Satterly positive compensation theory and it did work. I went from a vertical of around 12" down to 9" however horizontal will often print in the 4" range at 1000 yards. Basically I'm looking at trying to get my rifle down to shooting some 4" groups at 1000 yards on a good day. My 1000 yard steel plate is 12" square so not even close to the 3 foot steel at 1000 that "Big Stick" shoots at so he can tell me about vertical dispersion. Perhaps instead of big stick telling me I had a high ES he might have told me how changing my firing pin spring, primer, powder, addressing neck tension with mandrels instead of just a bushing die would help me out he may have actually been attempting to teach me something. Instead, as usual, I never learned a single fk'n thing from stick.

XPHunter however gave me some useful information and that was that he has had better results with the bergers in achieving small groups at 1000. Now, some may ask......"IF I'm fairly educated, why am I asking questions?" Well, probably because, while I'm likely more educated than most of the uneducated fk'tards that only had smart-ass presumptuous answers that had nothing to do with the question, I'm humble enough to know that asking questions regardless of how educated one is, is what smart people do to continue gleaning small bits of useful information! And, maybe I'm trying to figure out who's who

Have a great day pards, and get back to your 3' steel at 1000 Stick. And whoever this fk'n tard is who calls you his pard and says I should listen to your drivel that has zero useful information to glean, maybe that dumb MFer should start gleaning from someone who is a bit more in the know

Hope ya'll are having a great weekend

You are welcome to your Brokedick Delusions,as you feverishly fill out Hurt Feeler Reports,to vindicate your Professional Victim status...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I barely have (10) 264 Kreeds(expecting another early in the week) and none will shoot an ES in the double digits. Hint.

Keep doing the best you can,with what AMAZINGLY little you "have" to "work" with. Be sure to keep this yarn going,as you Pretend aloud with your GoogleFu. Pardon Splendid Wares that exist,as you DREAM wildly. Lose the SRP's. Hint.

You've been led to water and your countless Insecurities are very WELL founded. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

lol you are idiot… first that rifle you have will not even keep up with a legit f class rifles. 4 inch groups at 1000yds? You are delusional, of course you will have horizontal drift it’s called wind. I shot plenty of NRA 1000yd matches to know you need good brass, good bullets and a good barrel oh and low ES. Your initial post like Rcamuglia said proves you have no idea what you are doing. You think switching bullets is going to fix your problem. Trust me your problem isn’t hornady bullets. Love him or hate him Stick gave you the best advice from the start telling you, your ES is way to high.

I neck size! The brass fits the chamber a lot better and improves groups tremendously. I wouldn't expect you fellas to know this

Guys, I'm also shooting a 6.5 creedmoor! It's the best cartridge Winchester has ever designed.

If you are really only neck sizing, there is a better way.

The best shooters, even in the bench world (100/200, 600/1000 BR and in 600/1000 F-Class) Full length resize every time.

The only people that shoot Hornady bullets for LR Benchrest work for Hornady......

Trystan,
I hope you were just being incredibly sarcastic about neck sizing. I know you were about the Creed

Speedy should about be done with my LR benchrest specialty pistol in the next month.
https://sebrests-usa.com/joystick-rests/neo/
About the only thing that is going to stay the same is the Batman stock.
You can see a pic of Batman (6mm Long Dasher/105 Berger Hybrid) of it, if you scroll down to the 5th picture.
The third pic is my F-Open rifle (284 Winchester/180 Berger Hybrid).
Batman is getting a new action and a new chambering - 22GT/85.5 Berger.
The class (Light) I shoot this in has limits or barrel no longer than 15" and it cannot weigh more than 7.5 pounds.
This is only a once a year BR match.
https://www.moalongrangeshoot.com/

We shoot three 5-shot groups at 500 yards (Do the same thing at 750 and 1K), and then the two best agg's got to the shoot-off for one 5-shot group to determine placement for that distance.
6mm Long Dasher (105 Berger Hybrids) with my three 5-shot groups at 500 yards.



A different year but my five shot shoot-off group at 1000 yards (Heavy Pistol), using 180 grain JLK's

For serious Fclass shooting, Bergers ate the vast choice.
6" is larger the Vbull at 1,000, and where precision is concerned, that is too much.

Even with my TR rifle ( which we shoot at a 1MOA Vbull),I try to get my vertical dispersion as low as I can.
Cat

Nice, thanks for sharing! Ya, I definately don't neck size lol. I'm useing Redding bushing full length dies, bump the shoulder .002 and set neck tension with a mandrel die. I made my own Amp annealer that's working really well so annealing every time as well. It's been working well with my factory chambering. I'm not neck turning and with the factory CTR barrel and lapua brass don't think I'd see anything on paper if I did. When I sort the hornadys for length I've got a few 5" five shot groups but don't care for the constant math and it's easy to mix up which batch I'm shooting so thinking the bergers will be the better way to go. I've been thinking about a 284 shehane but probably go with a 6.5 PRC necked up to 7mm.

I don't think you can go wrong with having speedy put together a gun for you. At least you won't have to work on it when it shows up.

When I worked up a RL23 load for my rifle I new it wasn't an optimal powder in my rifle but alas I was a little low on powders and components at the time. I'll be working up a H4350 load in a few weeks when I'm finished working in california and also going to try some vitivouri 555. I'm not expecting a factory CTR Tikka to shoot like a true F class rifle but I'm having fun and learning a lot. I felt a few 5" groups was doing pretty well considering my horizontal was only three inches on a few of them and I was shooting with an mpod and bags for the rear.

I hope we'll get to shoot together sometime and best wishes

There are a number of really great gunsmiths out there.
I enjoy my chats with Speedy-He has a great personality, and the knowledge just oozes out. Seb and I first met Speedy years ago when the US hosted the F-Class Worlds at the NRA Whittington Center, outside of Raton. Speedy's first love is still all about 100/200 yards benchrest. He is not worried about having the smallest group of the match, but rather the best Agg.
If we lived closer together and weekends was not challenge for me, I am pretty much sure I would be dipping my toe into 100/200 BR matches.
The majority of his work is for F-Class shooters, and he shoots F-Open locally still some, and he will typically be at the F-Class Nationals and the SWN's.
Use what you have for F-Open and learn and have fun, and at the same time be saving your pennies for a true F-Open rig, if that becomes your passion.

My F-Open rig is a straight 284 Winchester.
I will never compete enough in F-Open to be able to take advantage of what the Shehane or 7mm PRC-W can provide over a 284 Winchester.

If I was starting now, and went full out, I would go with the PRC-W (7mmx6.5 PRC). I would run a laminated stock (Not sure which one I would go with) with the internal stock buffer system (RAD), Borden action, Brux or Bartlein or Krieger barrel, Flavio trigger or a Bix N Andy, March optic....

NEO-X front rest and a Bigfoot rear bag....that's the easy part for me.

If I was shooting Light Gun 600/100 Benchrest, I would go with a 6mm BRA and possibly a 300 WSM for Heavy Gun with 215 Berger's.

The thing with that video, Eric should have walked back down the line and asked them how many are shooting a rifle with an off the shelf factory barrel and chamber made in 1958?

Grandpa might have had a reason.

Apples answer to orange questions?


Anyway... I've got Bergers to move if you're a buyer. lol

I have no complaints with Hornady ELD match bullets, and they are priced right and still sold in boxes of 100.



Maybe i don't know what I'm missing by not going to the Bergers?? I also find Hornady ELD match bullets are less expensive than Sierra match kings as well. On the 6.5, I've made a switch to the 147 for competition because it does better in the wind, than the 140 does. To each their own.

I see the OP wants to edge out the competition at 1,000 yards. He may see an improvement by going to the Bergers in that respect. The only real way he's going to know is by buying a box, and testing on his own..

First step is to switch to the 147 ELDM. It's much better at longer range than the 140.

I built a 6.5 Creedmoor when the reamer first came out. It's a stiller tac 30 aw with a 24" sender's 8 twist bartlein barrel.i came into a good load the first time out with it and have stuck with that load ever since. It's a 140g berger vld hunting over h4350 with cci 250s.

A friend told me I didn't need mag primers with the small case so I had him watch me chronograph 5 rounds. My extreme spread was 9 fps. He then said ok you can keep using those 250s. And it did it with Hornady brass.

A guy named Scott who worked fir stiller chambered it for me. I've shot more 1/4th moa groups with that gun than any other. I'm down to my last 500 of that lot of burgers though so I hope the newer ones are as good.

I have a lot of Hornady 123g amax amps that shoot almost as well from an 18" bhw 3 groove grendel AR I built. So tornadoes can shoot well too. That lot shot great and as luck would have it a local shop closed out 5000 of that lot when Hornady went eld. I still have a few thousand bit a few fire members talked me out of some when things were hard to get.

The same shop recently closed out a bunch more bullets and I picked up several berger 135g 6.5s that I'll be trying out in my new sig cross Creedmoor I recently bought. I hope they shoot because I stocked up.

Bb

Haha suddenly we get to hear about all the imaginary bucks and bulls killed

Amazing groups!

Definitely great groups, but to my eye they look about double the size of what is written beside them. It would be interesting to see a caliper measuring them in the picture.

…and 10 rounds to boot!

Incredible!

Yeah maybe it as at 200yds? each little square is .25 they sure look bigger to me. Regardless good loading and shooting.

If the group size were marked in MOA, that would be a possibility, but it's in inches.

Bsa, this isn’t the first time I’ve noticed that your group sizes sometimes appear larger than the writing beside them would indicate. Any comment about your method of measuring groups?

That is INCREDIBLE SHOOTING bsa1917hunter, is that at 100 yards?