Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Semi autos for outdoors defense

Great thread and thanks for the Info, Mackay.
Was just wondering what the distance of the shots in your drill was ?

Also wondering if you have tried the same drill with your 10mm Hard Cast loads in a Glock 20 ?
And if not, will you please do so in the future to give us comparable times ?
It would be interesting to see the difference.
My Glock 20 with the 220 gr hard cast BB loads definitely has quite a bit more recoil than my Glock 21 with comparable loads.

I’ll readily admit the Glock 21 is the softest shooting 45 acp I own. Mines a Gen 3. I need to go ahead and upgrade to a Gen 5 with optics, for these “old eyes”. The sights on my guns are not near as “sharp” as they used to be. 😬

Thanks again for another great post.

Mack, as you know I've always been a longtime proponent of my S&W Mountain Guns in both 44 and 45 Colt flavors, but reality set in that as I've aged, quick, accurate shooting has deteriorated with my big wheel guns.

Hence the reason I have made the move to a Kimber Camp Guard 10 mm as my field gun now. 200 gr Hard cast are potent pills out of a 10mm that's for certain and the recoil impulse is better suited for me and my circumstances.

Keep loading that wonderful ammunition and good luck!


Frog---OUT!

Then, there is the .460 Rowland kits with the compensators for steel and plastic guns.

https://460rowland.com/

That .960 is impressive too.

The auto loader has a great deal to recommend it for outdoor use. A successful quest for appropriate ammunition is an excellent achievement.

I haven't played much with autos vs revolvers in cold temps. I may have to experiment a bit with that, as revolvers still may hold an edge there.
I do know that my AR-15 and a couple of different .22 LR semi-autos won't cycle at -20F, even when degreased, and regreased with 'extreme low temp' gun oil, but I only used a few mid powered factory loads so that may have been part of the issue. Same with my Springfield 1911 .45 ACP. Even a couple of pump shotguns have had the trigger/sear/hammer gum up in those temps, with that 'low temp' oil applied.

I degrease and then dry graphite lube bolts/firing pin assemblys in my bolt guns in those temps, plus my trapping revolver and they have worked fine, down to -40F.

While I know those temps aren't realistic for a lot of what you all are discussing, I still think it is worth mentioning.

I've seen the slide on my auto loaders operate visibly slower at temps in the minus zero F° range, but I've never had a stoppage. The experience gave me a preference for revolvers in the cold when I was younger. I'm not sure I'd be as concerned now. I'd definitely be particularly focused on careful prep of the gun before carry. The slim profile of certain guns does make them easy to protect under clothing, and access from beneath that clothing.

Optics on a self defense pistol are stupid. I'm guessing you probably have optics on yours.

Why do you say optics are stupid?

Optics on pistols is the future. In another 10 years, maybe less, you will see them on the majority of handguns carried by LE and the military.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Optics are more accurate and faster and that is a proven fact
If you will do not realize this, then you are too stubborn to see reality.

I have had my 4" Model 29 freeze up and the cylinder become inoperable after taking a tumble into the snow. Plus carrying it close to my body in a tanker rig, it made just enough of a difference that the metal was a slightly warmer temperature and it attracted moisture. I could cock the hammer back, but the cylinder would not rotate. I worked my way back to the truck and stuck it up on the dash, and let the defroster thaw it out while I continued my jackrabbit safari with a Glock 21 .45 acp, which ran flawlessly no matter how cold it was.




A few years back a number of us gathered at Ken Hackathorn's place for a cold weather shoot. I cannot remember exactly how cold it was but it was well below zero and it was a good observation of both how men and machines operate differently in temps around -20s or so. Proper lubrication of weapons is critical. People definitely slow down and have to think through processes such as reloading guns, putting guns back in holsters safely with numb hands, doing transition drills, etc.

When it comes to firearms, I use a very light layer of 0W-20 motor oil. This allows both handguns and rifles to work fine. It has been my experience, hunting in sub zero temps every year that the semi auto with loose tolerances, like a Glock (versus a 1911) is FAR more reliable than a revolver. A single bit of moisture from body perspiration will cause a revolver to freeze up when that migrates into the lockwork.

There is a very good reason why outfits like the Danish sled patrols use a Glock when operating in the arctic. They have conditions that are obviously rather harsh and chose equipment that would operate best in that environment. Many may not know it but they chose to use old 1917 Enfield 30-06 rifles as their primary rifle along with the Glock 10mms.

I have carried a Glock .45 with heavy loads for many years in the mountains and find it to be ideal for harsh environments. Plus I like the very lightweight to capacity ratio. That is hard to beat. Normally when I get an animal like an elk down, I will leave my rifle at the truck and just pack a handgun for subsequent trips back and forth, either using a pack frame or a game sled to transport the meat out.

Semi-auto handguns tolerate abuse and harsh conditions better than revolvers. Revolvers *might* tolerate neglect better. My cold weather hunting is from about 0* - low single-digit numbers with highs in the teens maybe. I use Ronson lighter fluid for lubrication. It is very thin, wicks excess liquid off, and leaves a thin oily residue on the gun parts. It is not for high-volume shooting but for a few days of hunting in the cold and a low volume of shots fired it works quite well.

I know for a fact that the FBI uses red dot sights. I'm not sure if it's a requirement across the board but they do use them.

Thanks Mackay, that is good info. I carry a XdM 45acp with the 13 rd mags and a load imitating yours in a HPG Recon. When carrying with that method, the extra weight of the 45 over a 9 isn't noticeable for me. So,I definitely prefer to have the 45.

Thanks for the insight. Glocks and similarly designed pistols absolutely have been the most reliable for me, in any conditions. I dearly love a 1911 .45 ACP but I just can't trust them in extreme cold, no matter how I prep them with lubrication. I can see ice buildup along a cylinder causing it to jam up like you experienced and I could only guess that taking the same tumble could have the same body heat/ice effect along a Glock's slide rail. Have you tried imitating that same situation with a Glock? I'd be curious as to how it would fare.

I keep a Ruger Single Six---my trapping revolver---in a holster under my bino harness so it rides much like a tanker holster and have taken several dumps on my snowshoes, along with a few snowmachine wrecks. I haven't had snow/ice be an issue with it yet after those dumps but maybe I am just lucky? -20F is business as normal on my line. -40F is when things really get interesting. This particular day was cold enough to completely gum up my shotgun's trigger/sear system, despite being degreased and dry graphite lubed (or maybe it was just re-lubed with 'extreme cold oil'-I don't recall). It wouldn't budge at all. The revolver worked fine though. I don't recall taking a tumble that day but the drifting snow may have had a similar effect. I want to say it was colder than -40F but can't be certain of that. It was cold enough that my pickup wouldn't start when I got back to it.

First, T-Inman that is a great picture. You have some great experiences, I always like reading your post.

I'm just musing in general here... If a revolver freezes, what needs to be done for it to function again in the field? Mac took his M29 back to the truck turned the heat on inside the truck and let it defrost the S&W. With a semi-auto drop the magazine, unload the chamber, and then vigorously rack the slide several times and dry fire it. If it won't dry fire and you absolutely have to access the inner workings it is easy to field strip the gun and maybe scrape or melt the snow or ice out of the trigger mechanism with a BIC lighter. I doubt many of us would take the sideplate off our revolvers in the field and blow the ice out. The modern striker-fired guns like the Glock, M&P, Sig, etc. are not only more robust in harsh conditions, but also easier to get back up and running if there is a problem. I truly love my S&W revolvers. But if push came to shove and I could only have one handgun in a wilderness survival situation my choice is easy. My G20 would be my choice.

That kind of performance is unfathomable to me. I can't imagine what you were like when you were shooting competition.

My Glock 20 would be my first choice also. My Glock 21 would be my second choice, of course, followed by my old Ruger Super BlackHawk. 🤠