Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Varget & .45-70 Marlin

I go through a lot of Hodgdon's Varget every year in my .308 match loads. It's great stuff for that, producing good velocity and excellent accuracy.

Was scouting for powder to do some .45-70 loading earlier this evening and discovered I was out of both Reloader 7 and H4198, my two standby powders for the big bore Marlin. There was however this half full 8 lb jug of Varget sitting there...

I'd been eyeballing Hodgdon's Varget figures in their annual manual for some time, and reading recommendations from others and have meant to give it a try. Well, I have! Now I'll just have to see what it does for me, or doesn't do for me. Loaded up some 325 gr cast bullets made by a friend of mine, over 50 grains of Varget. Should be a very mellow shooting load. Hodgdon doesn't show a 325, but they have some interesting Varget data:

Trapdoor loads:
300 gr cast - 45gr/1599 fps @ 17,800 CUP
300 gr cast - 55gr/1880 fps @ 20,600 CUP

300 gr Sierra - 57gr/1770 fps @ 16,300 CUP
300 gr Sierra - 63gr/2020 fps @ 23,800 CUP

385 gr cast - 42.5gr/1537 fps @ 15,400 CUP
385 gr cast - 52.5gr/1805 fps @ 21,800 CUP

Marlin 1895 loads:
350 gr Hornady RN - 54gr/1786 fps @ 21,800 CUP
350 gr Hornady RN - 60gr/2013 fps @ 29,500 CUP

400 gr Speer JFP - 50gr/1655 fps @ 18,600 CUP
400 gr Speer JFP - 55gr/1845 fps @ 25,000 CUP

I was pretty impressed with the reasonable velocities at rather low pressures, so I just loaded some up with 50 grains of Varget, and we'll see how they do soon. Not tonight though, too dark, cold and late!

I tried Varget in my M1895 Marlin and found that while accuracy was excellent, pressure spiked alarmingly fast and well before max book velocities were reached.

Interesting. I'll watch for that. What pressure spike signs did you see?

I find that interesting as it appears that one cannot easily get enough VARGET into a 45-70 case to exceed the safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70. Hodgdon lists maximum compressed loads of VARGET for both the 350 grain Hornady and 400 grain Speer that do not approach the maximum safe operating pressure of the Marlin 1895 45-70.

How was a pressure spike determined?

I seemed to run from zero to one hundred in a very short increase of powder. I was working up loads 1/2 grain at a time and chronographing them as I went. The chronographed velocities were increasing by about 30 - 35 fps per 1/2 grain of powder. Until I reached a certain point, which was under the book max, and then the lever wanted to "spring" open. At this point I was only getting an increase of about 10 - 15 fps per 1/2 grain of Varget. I would have to check my records to see where I was but I can tell you I wasn't near a recommended max from reliable loading manuals. I stopped as soon as the signs exhibited themselves. H4198 was doing as well for accuracy and the velocity was right where I wanted, 1,850 fps/405 gr. Remington.

I shoot Varget. My "go-to" load is 58.0 grains of Varget under a Hornady 350 grain RN bullet and CCI 200 primers. This load is lightly compressed and very accurate in my Guide Gun. I've loaded up to as much as 61 grains without pressure signs but accuracy was not as good so I backed off to 58 grains. I used a vibrating shaft on an electric toothbrush to settle the powder as best I could in the case for the 61 grain loads and it was still highly compressed. Shooting 58 grain loads I print one inch high at 100 yards, that gives me about two inches low at 160 yards. The load is not bad in the recoil department either.

Ditto!!!

Jayco

I agree with jackfish that you will have a hard time getting too much Varget in the 45-70 case. I suggest that the lever springing open was not caused by excessive pressure, but by a combination of recoil and your hand. Recoil slides the gun and lever rearward against your fingers, and the inertia of your fingers against the lever make it open. This has happened to me and is common. Try holding on to the lever more tightly with your fingers when firing. The tighter grip will tend to make your hand move with the gun during recoil. Another idea is to place your middle finger on the outside of the lever when firing.

-

Explain the suddenly decreased chronograph readings please? Another point, if it was recoil, then why did that same thing not happen when I shot the H4198 loads at 100 fps MORE velocity? No lever springing there, or, with any other load I've fired through that gun. I'm not making an issue of it, it happened as I related, and I moved on to another powder and found complete happiness elsewhere.

What is it about this that absolutely means an excessive pressure situation?


H4198 pushing a 405 grain bullet in the Marlin 1895 45-70 1850 feet per second is a higher pressure load (approx. 29,500 CUP) than VARGET doing the same (approx. 25,000 CUP). Yet there is a difference in free recoil generated by them at this velocity with the H4198 load at 36.8 ft. lbs. and the VARGET load at 40.0 ft. lbs. Whatever you experienced was highly unlikely to be caused by excessive pressure and very likely to be caused by differences in recoil.

Okey dokey, must be so then...

This is the kind of accuracy I get with my Guide Gun and Varget. These were at 100 yards. The two on the left measure a clean .458" diameter hole, the exact same diameter as the Hornady 350 grain RN bullet.

Tried my loads today - only 28 degrees out on the snow-covered range, but set up the chronograph and had at it.

50 grains of Varget, 325 grain cast = avg velocity of 1465 fps and very mild recoil

I didn't try any serious accuracy testing, but it seemed quite adequate for game at middling distances. Did all my shooting with the .45-70 today from standing at 50 yards, just trying to get a feel for the load and a look at the velocity. Or lack thereof!

It seems like a nice plinking load, although it does impact about a foot lower than my typical 350 gr, 2100 fps hunting loads.

Regards, Guy

BTW flashole - that's some outstanding shooting!

What the heck are you using for sights or a scope?

Congrats on some nice shooting...

The gun is scoped with a Burris Short Mag 2-7x33mm.
The long eye relief is great.

The only time I tried Varget - in some compressed loads in my Ruger #1- I had so much powder refuse out in front, in the bore, and at the gate, that I decided I wasn't getting enough pressure - probably- for a good burn. I haven't tried it since. (I don't mind a few crumbs in the bore. That has never been a criteria on which I choose a load as long as it otherwise shoots well. When those crumbs spill out into the chamber and surrounding area however, then I won't fool with the loading.)

Varget has for me replaced my most used powder...4064 It meters better and data seems very comparable, no problems...(linked to the use of Varget). Best wishes, Bill

I have had the same experience with unburned powder. I switched to H4895 for a great compromise.

Supercrewd,

I was also geting unburned powder left in several of my 45-70s with Varget, but I couldn't argue with cloverleafs at 50 yards. I even use Varget in my Contender. I bet I could reload the unburnt powder left in the barrel, but once again Varget is one of the most accurate loads in my Contender.