Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Help me decide upon a plainsgame plus leopard bullet for my 338.................

Gdv, no, it was a wide-open shot off the shooting sticks with no obstructions in the way at all. Fundamentally, I think the all-copper construction makes these bullets too long for their weight and thus decreases stability. Yes, you can go lighter, but that still means less mass. In my heart, I still think that premium lead-core bullets are fundamentally better.

That doesn't mean that I won't hunt with TSXs any more or won't even use them on this safari, but I'm not quite sold yet.

Accuracy with the TSX is tops, I know that much, but by the same token, on a good day I get 1/2 MOA groups out of 210 & 250 Partitions with my rifle, so Nosler still seems to be able to produce an accurate bullet.....good enough for hunting everything but a theory, anyway!

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Allen my friend, I think you just need to stick with what you already believe in and forget the TSXs and others of their type. You are not convinced of their qualities and a questionable experience has you doubting them in spite of all the very positive reports you have heard about. I believe in giving anything more than one chance...even an Accubond got four chances,LOL! Because of this, and the number of other options available, I will never hunt with one again, for anything. The partition is another matter entirely, and while I no longer have any interest in using them either, they get the job done. Many of us feel the TSXs are better, as were the Fail Safes. No bullet ever made hasn't failed someone at some time.

Sousnds like the way your rifle likes both type bullets you can not go wrong with either one

Then why even think twice about it. Use what you want to use.
We all know that at its very best the TSX won't kill any faster and a very good chance not quite as fast. Penitration won't be a problem with either one.

Go with the TSX

Allen,

My two cents is to go with the 250 grain Partition. Based on the plains game you hope to hunt, including zebra and eland, which are some big, tough animals, I'd use the heavier bullet. This is the way I chose to go when I went to Africa last year, even though like you, I was getting very good accuracy with the 225 grain TSX. I was after eland among other plains game and wanted a tough bullet that could penetrate through heavy bone, if necessary, much like you desire with lion. I went with the 250 grain A-Frame, but I'm sure the partition would work just the same. I took the same combo as you're taking, the .338 and the .416 Rem. The one chance I actually got to pursue eland, I took the .416 just because I was still concerned that the .338 might not be enough for a big bull. Everyone says the .338 is large enough, but I'd rather error on the conservative side.

Combine all of this with your doubts about the TSX and your stated preference for using a bullet you know will perform every time, based on your own personal experience, I don't see any other choice but to use the 250 Partition. And...it'll knock the heck out of your leopard when you get the chance.

Test

I would agree that a conventional lead core bullet like a partition needs 250grs. With the Swift being a bonded core, the 225gr is likely just fine too. The advantage to the solid copper bullet is the ability to drop down in weight, thus getting a flatter trajectory. The additional length one gets when matching weights with regular bullets is not a good thing. I believe this is why some of the TSXs and earlier X bullets were prone to tumbling now and then. Drop down in weight, shorten up the bullet and that should go away, especially with the new version.
In spite of the widely held opinion of eland and zebra being very tough...I killed 5 eland with 6 shots using my 300Win mag and a variety of 180gr bullets, in addition to many zebra with the same rifle. This toughness everyone talks about with zebra and eland is pure hogwash, IMO. Put a good bullet in the right place and it's game over, right there and right now. I think zebra can actually be tougher than eland if hit improperly. Any well constructed 338 bullet of proper weight is plenty for either one, if the hunter is capable of making good shots. Any combo capable of reliably taking eland is easily enough gun for a lion in a pinch, IMO.

Allen,

I was at the SCI convention in Reno.

I saw the new TTBBCs- Tipped Trophy Bonded Bear Claws- they look awesome; have a plastic tip, plus have a nickle-type finish and new Grooves (like the TSX)...it is essentially, like a TTSX, but with lead!

The expanded bullets look great and the sales rep assured me that the plastic tips have been tested for shearing and bonding and they simply have never come off in a magazine during all their testing.

While I've seen them and they look great, I have only used the original TBBCs with great performance.

I suggest that you try to get a hold on some and test them for yourself. They may be just the bullet that you are looking for.

Cheers,
CL

Allen,

Here's what they look like expanded:


Unfortunately, I just read that they are not initially available in .338 win mag; but they are available in .270, 300 win. mag. and many other commom cartridges.

Canadian: Are they available as components yet?

I haven't been able to find em...

Thanks....

As Middlefork mentioned, they're not yet available as components as supply is still ramping up.

As production and demand increases, the sales rep mentioned that they should be available as components and increase calibre options and weights.

When I asked when they'd be available, he did not know, but told me "...should be within the year.".

Canadian L., I suspect that the new tipped Trophy Bonded is going to be a really great bullet, provided it doesn't work as whimsically as the Nosler AccuBond (which is sort of reminds me of for some reason), it should be excellent. I've used regular Trophy Bonded Bearclaws before, mostly in my 375 H&H, and they were extremely consistent and reliable performers.

Test, my original plan was to load 240 gr. North Forks for my 338, since I came up with a load for that bullet in Win. cases with CCI 250 primers and Reloader 19 that was varmint-accurate, and I had 10 boxes of those bullets on order. Then the decision was made to close shop, and my order never did get filled.

I've never found eland to be all that hard to kill. Just about every one that I've shot took a bullet through the lungs (mostly premium 180s out of a 300 Win.) then ran maybe 50 yards and fell over. Some stood in place after taking the shot, wobbled, then fell over. They all acted like moose or elk that were well-hit by a good bullet. Even so, good 250s out of a 338 surely would never be a mistake, and certainly should offer some advantages I should think.

In '06, I found that 225 gr. Swift A-Frames were completely excellent in their own right for eland. My hunting partner had a long, going-away shot on a huge, ancient old "blue bull" late one afternoon, and since he's not one to stand around cogitating and is a truly excellent, FAST off-hand shot, he quickly sent a bullet into the short ribs on the near-side as this bull sped away. That eland went maybe 60 yds. (mostly going on momentum from the sounds of it) and piled up, stone-dead. That bullet penetrated, as near could be determined, over 40" and was found right behind the off-shoulder, just under the hide. I shot a superb old eland bull myself with that bullet, and it simply blew his lungs totally apart, detached the heart, and was found just under the hide on the off-side.

There are several guys I know who have killed leopards very dead with 210 and 250 Partitions, so I have no doubt they'll do the job.

I'd still like to hear from someone who has actually taken a leopard with a Barnes TSX.........

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With a requirement for fast expansion, wide wound channel and bullet weight retention, the humble RN bullet has not been supersceded.

With the body width, muscle structure, tenacity, danger and close range associated with leopard, consider a 300 grain Woodleigh Weldcore. I would.

JW

Allen,

Makes sense what you write.

Another option: I spoke with Larry at Superior Ammo while at SCI; he mentioned that he still has a limited supply of North Fork bullets in various calibers available for reloading. He was even showing expanded North Forks at his booth. You might want to try him for a small supply to tie you over for Zambia; thus, giving you more time to decide on another bullet.

Cheers,
CL

The leopard's body width is at most 12" side to side and their bones are small. They are also very susceptible to hydrostatic shock, so a fast and quick expanding bullet is the better choice for leopard. The one and only leopard I ever had run far after the shot was hit with a 300gr partition, fired from my 375. The others were shot with my 300mag and fell like they were struck by a lightening bolt. A 300gr bullet fired from a 338 is exactly the opposite of what is best for leopard, IMO.

John, that's absolutely correct. I even know of leopards that were killed instantly with 130 gr. Nosler Partitions out of a 270 Win. They're hardly dinosaures, but they do need to be hit precisely and killed on the spot.

Big, heavy bullets aren't a universal pancea for everything, in fact they can actually work against your cause. The first zebra I ever shot in Africa was hit right in the front of the chest from 50 yds. out with a 500 gr. Trophy-Bonded solid out of a 458 Win. Mag., and at the shot that zebra acted like he wasn't hit at all. He turned and walked away and we could clearly see the exit wound on the back of that zebra's left ham. I waited for him to turn broadside and then sent another one through both shoulders, breaking down his framework, which ended that nonsense right there.

In contrast, I've shot zerbas right in the front of the chest at four times that distance with a 180 gr. Nosler Partition out of a 300 Win. Mag., and those ponies collapsed right where they stood, seemingly just as soon as the rifle went off.

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Allen,
I'd rather use a 25/06 loaded with a ballistic tip on leopard than anything throwing big chunks of lead at low velocities. In fact, I used a 180gr ballistic tip out of my 300mag on one occasion and it made an excellent rig for spots. A good bullet at high velocity, that is put in the right place can make a lot of this so called "tough" game seem pretty soft!

Regarding tumbling, I had a 250 NP fail to penetrate a wilderbeest shoulder....it essentially smashed it but didn't do much beyond that. In retrospect I believe it hit a twig or something similar and tumbled. That's the only thing that makes any sense at all. I've never had another tumble. Similar thing happened with a 250 A frame on a sable...the rear end lost the core and looked like it had been hit with a hammer.