Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Which domestic dog breed can hold its own against Wolves?

I don't think it would be humane either. My philosophy is not to rely on a single dog but on several to not only protect the livestock but give ample enough warning to bring either myself or my wife and children around to convince the predator to find another locale. Who knows...for one or more preds (coyotes, wolves, cougar, etc.) to come upon my family or livestock whilst being babysat by four or more Sarps might be just the ticket to avoid a bad day for both of us.

Some years ago, duck hunting in Saskatchewan, one of the other hunters had his black lab killed by a wolf that went after a downed bird.

But sheep herders have bred dogs to protect sheep from wolves. Usually, these dogs work in teams. We had an 80-lb English shepherd that would run down a coyote or fox and kill it. More stamina and way more speed than either predator. Tangled with a pack of feral dogs and left 4 of them on the ground, ready to be finished off. Just came to the house and fetched us to come see.

I later had a large working English shepherd, a male, 100-lbs lean muscle for a cattle dog that was very smart and they are very quick at dodging another dog. They have a thick coat, especially a mane. Mine killed a large doberman pinscher which came into our yard, which is a territory no-no for these working dogs. It took about 20 seconds. My dog was only lost one bite of hair before breaking the doberman's neck, shaking it like a rag doll.

then please tell me, why would the people of the middle east breed dogs for over 5000 years to do that exact job?

Do you not find it a little arrogant of you to tell people of these areas they are wrong, and have been doing it for nothing for 5000 years, cuz there is no way they can win?

Remember, these dogs are best in groups of 3 or more (sort of like a wolf pack), are powerful (Mastiff strong, but much more lean and quick), very smart and built for that one fight.

you are basically saying that Spaniels can not fetch ducks from the water, Dobermans are bad watch dogs, so LGDs must not be able to protect their flocks?

if they were such push overs, then they would not be out there, period. If they were not capable of the job, then the wolves would eat them. Go google kangal dog.

I know my dogs, and yes, they have never met a wolf, but there is no feral pack that can hang with them here, not even close. My 3 dogs would hold their own vs 3 wolves. I may lose some, or all, but the wolves would also lose some or all. My dogs do their job without fail, and have killed more than their share of feral dogs/strays/coyotes, without any damage. A wolf would know better than to try. They may indeed be able to win, but they respect these dogs enough to move on to something easier.

"then please tell me, why would the people of the middle east breed dogs for over 5000 years to do that exact job?"

Perhaps they did, but that doesn't mean it's humane or the dogs weren't seriously injured; I am sure they rushed their injured dogs to the local vet. Moreover, we are culturally much different than those folks you are referring to, and we have other alternatives.

I have had at least one Doberman at any given time for the past 25 years. They're a great watch dog, but I would purposely put it in a position likely to meet up with a wolf, cougar, etc. I am not willing to take that risk with a family member; my dogs aren't disposable.

To each his own. If you chose to do that with your dogs, so be it. I promise I won't call PETA. Lou

the irish wolf hound was bred to kill wolfs thus the name

PETA has no leg to stand on, because the alternative to the dogs, is me shooting the predators, and I know they do not want that. Most ARA groups actually propose putting LGDs out there, rather than the ranchers putting holes in their beloved wolves.

The dogs are sort of like Peacekeepers, and generally, as long as the owner has sufficient dogs/animals/acres you should have no issues with livestock loss or dog loss.

I have seen dead coyotes, strays, racoons, skunks etc. Although, I will say this, the longer we stay there with the dogs, the less I see corpses out there. This means that the local wildlife is becoming aware of the dogs there, and have decided if they value their life, they will steer clear of my pastures, and that means I wont kill them, the dogs wont kill them, and they can live. Its a win/win for everyone, and the dogs are accomplishing their goal.

Remember, I do not live in wolf country, but I do live in bear country. I would like to know what 'other alternatives' a rancher in the west has though, that is as effective as LGDs other than poisoning/hunting, which is the only one that I think would be as effective.

The IWH of today is not the same one as was raised to kill wolves 100s of years ago.

Before I get into this I want to express that NONE of what I am about to say are speculations.
I have been active in the fight against organized dog fighting for 30 years.
I have participated in busting these so called "tournaments" which are nothing more than sick games for psychopaths. Anyone who takes pleasure in animals of any kind suffering is one step away from being a human murderer.

What I have seen in my many years of busting dog fighting rings is that for the most part only so called fighting breeds are used. I said for the most part because there are also many "novelty" matches where a fighting breed such as a pitbull, Tosa Inu or Perro De Presa is matched against all kinds of other species...
Most often the wolf is used for these spectacles. The motivation of course is the age old question about who would win in a one on one fight.

I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty and without any speculation on my part that the wolf NEVER wins under these circumstances.
Novices are surprised when they hear what true dog men have known all along. Now please don't get me wrong. Being an animal lover and activist I am not here to diminish the wolf nor the dog... I am just here to share my real life discoveries with those of you who are speculating and are interested in finding out the truth to the question posted.
Indulge me if you will...

Nature made the wolf while man made canis familiaris.

When you look at natural K9s then you will see that the wolf has NONE of the shortcomings man made breeds suffer from. Nature knows best when it comes to creating a perfectly functioning member of the wild.
In order to create the perfect survivor there has to be balance. A survivor has to be well rounded and needs many different skills...

A Warrior dog does not need many different skills... It needs but ONE.
A survivor is NOT a warrior. It is a different talent altogether.
A survivor K9 has to be a good hunter with a keen sense of smell in order to find food. He has to be able to run fast enough to catch prey so he can eat and has to be SCARED enough to run from ANY confrontation not crucial to survival.
Since there are no vets in the wild a wolf could die even from a small wound which will go untreated...

A warrior K9 is a SPECIALIST at combat. It matters not if the warrior is a good hunter because his human will feed him. It matters not that the warrior has the best nose in the world because he does not need to find or hunt prey. It matters not if the warrior dog gets injured during a fight because vet care is available if his human cares to give it... The ONLY thing that matters is that the warrior is superior at ONE task... Fighting.

It is like comparing a trained human survival specialist to a UFC fighting champion...
Drop off the UFC champion in the jungle with no food or help and he will die a certain death. Because fighting is his only skill he simply does not have the tools to make it in that environment.
The survival specialist has all the skills needed to survive... Tough enough to fight for his life, knows what animals to run from, what animals to eat, how to kill them and how to find a way to maintain.
But...
If you put that survival specialist up against a UFC champion in a cage match then he is going to be beaten to a pulp.
I believe that both talents deserve equal respect...

I know that novices believe that the wolf is superior to all breeds of dog at every single task but... This is simply not true.

Canis familiaris has been specialized by man in order to make a particular breed superior to the wolf at a particular and SINGULAR task.
The greyhound is faster than the wolf...
The bloodhound has a better nose than the wolf...
The mastiff is more powerful than the wolf and so on...
But the all around best survivor is the wolf because he lives or dies based on his all around skills... Not just a singular one.

When man decided to "improve" on nature he did the following...
Let's say that we want to produce a dog that is a better fighter than the wolf then this is an easy task...
We start breeding for courage, skill and power above anything else... If we don't have to worry about creating an all around survivor then one single and extremely magnified skill will be our focus.
We eventually end up with a dog that will defeat the wolf in one on one combat but this warrior dog will not be on par with the wolf when it comes to surviving. It will beat the wolf at this one singular task but will be inferior in many other aspects.

If a well bred Tosa Inu was dropped off in the wild the dog would have almost zero chance of survival. Because man created a dog unafraid of anything. A dog that doesn't retreat will get injured even if he wins the fight. In the wild even a small injury that goes untreated will cause death.
The Tosa is NOT a survivor and cannot compete with the wolf on wolf territory.

If you put the wolf in a cage with the Tosa Inu the wolf has almost zero chance of survival because now the wolf is on Tosa territory.
Again... This is no guess on my part. In all of my years of trying to wipe out the inhumane atrocity called dog fighting I have never seen a wolf that survived against a true member of a fighting breed one on one.

A wolf NEEDS to have a certain amount of fear in order to avoid fights which are not important for survival. A dog which has been bred to be more brave, aggressive and powerful than a wolf will engage in fights which are not important for survival because the dog does not have the fear (survival instinct) to make it run when it should.

The reason why man made such a dog is also simple...

A wolf would not make a great guardian for man because he would only protect to a point. As soon as the wolf realizes that he could get seriously hurt then his survival instinct (fear) will kick in and he will run away leaving his human to fend for himself.
This is no guess on my part either. Being a complete K9oholic I have many friends who live with, protect and some even breed wolves. These people love and understand the wolf for what it is rather than what novices THINK the wolf is...

A dog which has been bred to be more brave and powerful than the wolf will continue protecting his human above and beyond what a wolf would or could do.
So for human needs the trade off makes sense...
The dog might not be as great a survivor in the wild but a much more effective guardian and protector for man than the wolf could ever be.

So while man improved on a certain aspect of the K9 species another part inevitably diminished.

I hope I was able to logically convey my experiences in regards to the original question. In closing I want to say one more thing...
I truly hope that this question was not based on someone having the desire to see a dog fight of any kind. People like Michael Vick and any dog fighters like him are mentally ill. It is a fact that every single mass murderer in history started out torturing and killing animals before moving on to the bigger "thrill" of killing humans.
Please...
If any of you ever come across information regarding people who fight dogs then please do the right thing. Report them to the authorities immediately.
Thank you for reading this admittedly long winded response.
Bless you all...

Lionman
Excellent answer!

+1. It is always nice to get answers based on facts.

270 Winchester that dog will hold its own. S.S.S.

Here's a picture of our Irish Wolfhound - the breed that wiped out the wolves in Great Britain.

Ours is a lean 180lbs. He's 35.5 inches at the shoulder. He's fearless. His name is Dunnigan.

Cool dog,Brian...I am a dog fanatic and have two(Lab and Aussie Shepard)..I doubt I would want you chow bill though...

Cool...

Jayco

Will English Shepherd's hunt grouse (Partridge)?

I don't know. But my English Setters sure will!

I had a Shepherd type dog when I was a kid, and I never knew exactly what breed it was. He sure resembles the English Shepherd and had all the traits of this breed. He was the best pal in my life and no dog in our rural area could whip him. He chewed two up so badly they had to be put down, but he weighed only about 40-50 lbs.

Was in LA a year or so ago, walked into an optics shop and saw the biggest pit bull I will ever see. Head like a basketball made round by those huge masseter muscles, this guy had the equipment to out-dual a wolf. I bet he was 150 lbs. I think the question more often for a dog like this is does it have the accompanying temperament to do the job.

My grandpa, was a wolf fer as well as many other things. He used Wolf hounds, grey hounds, and other hound dogs to run wolf. The grey hounds would catch up and bay them, the other dogs would show up and sometime kill the wolf before my grandpa, riding horse, would show up.

You have all missed the dog breed that can best hold a wolf at bay - the Chihuahua. As an inside dog, it will never even meet a wolf.

They also get stuck in a wolf's throat and choke them rather quickly.