Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Varathane 66 availability

Paul
The ordinary "Danish Oil Finish" is the one I use. It is the most stable finish blend I have found and very thin.

Casey
If I meant spar urethane I would have said spar urethane! Actually there is little new under the sun in finish technology. They just try to blend the cheapest, most easily-applied formula they can get away with...

I doubt you could find true old-time spar varnish these days... Despite can labels... Urethane is the resin of choice in almost all of them. If the spar varnish is too thick a little extra Watco will thin it to a more reasonable oil/resin ratio.

You want the mixture pretty thin. Apply heavy, allow to dry for 10-15 minutes and rub completely dry with a clean cloth.
art

BTW "Oil finish" is a mixture of oil, resins, thinners and waxes and we hope in that order. All oil finishes are made of about the same stuff and differences between them are usually minor. 66 earned a little different place because it does fine work so well...

As another general note... Thompson's Water Sealer is the most over-priced, useless crap made. To replicate it take any botched blend or end of run slurry and thin mightily with cheap solvents... Advertise like crazy and win the challenge set out in every business school in the World... And this is an important thing to remember about all businesses...

Businesses win or lose based not on what they do with the good stuff the make, but rather what they do with the junk. Lumber mills can sell all the firsts&seconds grade lumber automatically. It is how they do on their #4 common lumber that determines how they do at the bank.

Cotton gins always made their money on the cottonseed, not the cotton.

Thompson's is doing well pimping their junk as an outdoor sealer because that is all it is good for...

Thanks again, Art. You have provided valuable info, and your observation about the profit in selling crap is right on the mark.

Paul

OK, I found the ingredients for Art's home brewed Varathane 66 equivalent. I got lucky and found the spar varnish in pint cans.

Another question: How long should it dry between coats during build up?

Paul

Spot on Art, the woodworking forum I frequent shuns Thompsons unmercifully.

Art, since you didn't say spar urethane you must have meant the old fashioned spar varnish. But as you suggest, it is not easily found and may not even exist any longer. So, can you put a brand or source on it?

I have been looking lately and I cannot find a can that does not say urethane somewhere - often in very very small print. Unless it is one of the old stock cans way on the back of an old dusty shelf that says nothing at all.

I have use spar urethane and it seems to work in a recipe that is very similar to your's but uses turpentine and linseed oil.

Last, what is your opinion on Permalyn (esp sealer)?

Brent

Brent,

The can says Old Masters oil-based exterior finish Spar-Marine Varnish. One pint can.

Don't see urethane on it. Does mention some tung oil.

Diamond-Vogel paint store. Got it this morning.

I'd be willing to share if you have a container.

Paul

Paul
It will usually dry very fast and the coats are so thin the next can be applied pretty fast. After the last coat all oil finishes should sit for several weeks to fully cure before buffing out.

It is almost 100% there is urethane resin in it...
art

Brent
Urethane is probably in every readily available spar varnish made, but I do not consider that a bad thing. It does its job well.

Permalyn was a big disappointment in waterproof testing. It is oil-based and essentially the same thing as 66 or any other oil-varnish blend. None are very good at keeping moisture out. I found it a lot less user-friendly than a number of other mixtures I have played with.

To make sure no one things I am advocating this blend as a complete finish... or 66, or any other... I use this on top of an epoxy seal coat.
art

We're getting a great education here. Couple of questions please Art: Is your mix that slow in drying that you can wipe it off after 10 mins or so? Seems it would be getting gummy by that time. What kind of cloth do you use to keep lint out of the application. Also, do you have a favorite brand of epoxy coat and is it used straight out of the container? DonW

Art, you are the only person I have ever heard complain about Permalyn's water resistant qualities. Have you read Hughes double gun book, or his articles on stock finishing?

I have used it on a black walnut muzzleloader that is used hard in all conditions and the stuff seems to be pretty darn near bullet proof to me.

Of course, it's not epoxy, and I would not claim it to be as waterproof as that but I sure like it a whole lot more and it is way easier to apply than what is seems epoxy must be. That stuff sounds seriously difficult to work with.

Brent

Dons1
Yes it is pretty slow drying at that point. If it starts giving me problems that way I rewet with finish and rub faster and harder. If it is getting gummy I will toss it and mix a new batch.

I am not terribly fussy about the cloth because the finish is usually not very "grabby" when rubbing. Old sheets of reasonable quality are good enough, though flannel is not.

I have posted my method for the epoxy coat here many times and the full run-down can be found in the archives. But basically I heat the stock in an oven until it is almost too hot to handle and apply slow-set epoxy (very important) to the hot stock. The cooling wood will suck the epoxy in deeply.

After cleaning up the seal coat I usually apply an oil finish.

Brent
Meant to mention I do not like adding turpentine or other solvents to oils. Varnish is a blend with solvents to make it apply easily. When it starts to go bad (polymerize prematurely) it thickens, as does oil. When the mix is too thick I start questioning the integrity of my finish and that always leaves me cold.

The other problem I have is using BLO out of the hardware store can... It is not handled as carefully as "better" branded finishes and has caused me grief too many times with erratic thickening and slowed drying and such. watco and others add some waxes and resins and thin with solvents, also, but I have not had problems with them the way BLO has so many times.
art

Brent
Missed your last post until just now...

I have read SDH and many others that love the stuff. Remember, my need for waterproof is perhaps irrational. There is no comparison between epoxy and Permalyn or any other oil-based finish. Oil starts out at an extreme disadvantage.

Few are as concerned and likely fewer have a real need to be so... I have never claimed my finish is the only acceptable way. I only state that two finishes are truly waterproof, epoxy and CA. I would be a fool to even think to myself that Permalyn does not make an incredible finish for most of what a finish must do. On top of epoxy it is a great looking finish with no water problems. By itself it is a great looking finish that is only modestly waterproof. Without checking notes I believe it is neck and neck with 66 in that regard... Which is way ahead of most other oils.

Because I have done it the epoxy does not worry me and it is harder to apply, but not that much.
art

I must be missing something obvious. What is BLO?

Paul

BLO = Boiled Linseed Oil (I think)....

Sorry, thought it was common enough term to abbreviate...

When mixing up "oil" finishes I always use Epifanes Spar Varnish. It's very high in solids and is the gold-standard in the boating industry. The downside is that it is horribly expensive, but since we use it exclusively in our boat shop I have ready access to it.

We, too, use the oven pre-heat method when applying a base coat of epoxy before varnishing. Our preferred epoxy for that is West System's Tropical, or West System's 207 (which is formulated for that application). Be aware though that one runs the risk of getting bubbles in the epoxy as it "gasses" out during the curing process. A wash with alcohol afterward is also in order to remove the amine blush which will foul subsequent finishes or unduly clog sandpaper.

Higher grades of varnish cost more because they have the higher solids cut... in theory at least.

I have not used the West System Tropical, though the company engineers told me repeatedly it was the exact right stuff. I could not find it locally and gave up.

Because I do not try to build a surface layer of epoxy I have not been troubled by bubbles much at all.
art

"I have posted my method for the epoxy coat here many times and the full run-down can be found in the archives. But basically I heat the stock in an oven until it is almost too hot to handle and apply slow-set epoxy (very important) to the hot stock. The cooling wood will suck the epoxy in deeply."

Sitka Deer:

Will you post a link? I looked, but I can't find it.