Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Last straw with Midway USA for me

Rick:

I understand what you are saying. You have trouble with where Midway will ship to.

I don't have an FFL, so I don't and won't have the problem that you have

I might have sort of stolen your thread when I chimed in and gave my opinion.

When the incident I described took place, it was sort of aggravating, then when I saw your post, I thought I would add what I thought was another problem with Midway, and get it out in the open.

I don't like dealing with people (read companies, organizations, or whatever) where making a profit at all cost is the most important consideration. I know all businesses are in business to make a profit. I understand and accept that, but I do wish they would do it out in the open because I do not like doing business with a company that secretly tries to make an additional profit, above normal markup, by adding in hidden costs such as double or triple the actual cost of shipping.

I would much rather deal with a company who is up front about both their prices and also their shipping costs. Actual shipping costs.

Many years ago, when Sears put out catalogs and sold mail order, they ate you up on shipping charges, so this is not something new.

Hopefully, Larry will read all of the negative comments on this thread and take them to heart.

I want ALL businesses to prosper, ans it's just my opinon, but I truly believe that we gunsmith/dealers help companies like Midway and Brownells do so by buying thousands of dollars worth of their products every year.

As a gunsmith I am probably going to buy far more from these companies than will your average retail customer...and call me silly, but I think that is worth something to them.

Brownells seems to naturally realize this and they go out of their way to keep gunsmiths happy while Midway, through Larry's own words, hold us in contempt and feels like we are all out to screw him over.

Well,

I just got off the phone with Midway, trying to set up an annount for my reserve squadron to take adavantage of the military discount.

three phone calls and lots of irritation later, I don't think I'll order from them again. it was just too hard.

Yep, I remember Sear's outrageous shipping charges. They would not tell you until you went to merchandise pick-up and then you received your surprise. Sears ripped off alot of soccer moms and old ladies back then!

Sears Auto Centers received national attention when their mechanics and service managers were caught on film faking oil leaks and other defects on customer's autos. Sears made a pledge to change their corrupt ways but that was a lie! The local Sears Auto Center here in town does not list actual prices for their services, they base their charges on the moment. How about $119.00 for tire rotation and re-balance for 4 tires? I laughed and left..........

As for Midway, you think the company would buy a decent server or fire whoever is in charge of their IT dept. What a joke! They must be off hunting in Africa most of the time spending their hard earned dollars!

MtnHtr

Don't hold your breath!

MtnHtr

Midway has received my last order,period. They have put it to me for the last time. I am still limping from the last s------g I got from them on shipping what they didn't have in stock.
Perhaps if Mr Potterfield spent more time stocking what was needed instead of making the nice commercials thanking us for the business, his business wouldn't be going down the tubes, like it will.
He should get somebody on the ball to look at all the back orders and excess shipping they charged and send everybody an apology with a check for the overcharges.
Simple fixit if he would do it. Anybody think he will?

Guys,
I thought I would share a similar thread on another board:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2618636

Some of you guys like Pssing into the wind don't ya??? Time to through some gas on the fire here as I know I'll probably just get flamed

Ive done business with Midway for several years, probably not as long as some of you. I've also ordered from others, mostly on line, but sometimes over the phone. I also have some experience on the other side of the coin having worked for Gander Mountain when they had a catalog business out of Wilmot Wis.

I view Midway as one of the best of class for the following reasons:

1) Selection: I have Master Catalog #31 sitting on my desk. 969 pages of Shooting, reloading, and gunsmith stuff. No fishing lures, no camo toilet seats, no beef jerky. Back in the day Gander Mountain Catalog would have a fairly decent selction of reloading, shooting, and optics but nothing like Midways. I wonder how many SKU's (stock keeping units) Midway manages.

2)Pricing: Yeah, sometimes the pricing isn't the best... but the mix of pricing is pretty good. I'd say 20-25% maybe on the higher side, 50% of the items are in the Zone, and 25-30% are on the lower side. I've signed up for their email flyers and get hardcopies in the mail, and you always know that any one time they have something on sale.

3. Industry support. The NRA roundup idea is a great idea, both from a marketing point, and also knowing that supporting the NRA is also supporting Midway's customers. - I don't think Amazon donates anything to the NRA, but I may be wrong;)

4) Private Label product. I like the Tipton and Caldwell products as well thought out designs, enough so that Midway's sells them to their competitors.

5) Website. I'm a confirmed internet shopper and I find the Midway site to be among the best. Searching for product is easy, and once found, the information for each product is great. It also allows you to add the product to a wish list (my current wish list is at $500+). As for backorders, the site tells you at the time whether the product is instock or not...I don't backorder anything but use the reminder button for wehn they get it back in stock..



OK, let's talk about the beefs everyone has:

Shipping costs: If you shop online you know exactly what the shipping costs are. If you don't like the shipping don't order or find additional items to make it more cost efficient.

Why should it cost you $10 to ship a $6 item?? Because it's not efficient for a cataloger to ship 1 item. The cost to process the payment, print the pick ticket, pick the item for the order, and pack the one item, and create the shipping is not significantly less than doing the same for 20 items. Retailers are more efficient in processing larger orders and try to incentivise customers to place larger orders (but probably less frequently).

Flat Rate Boxes: I do think Midway should look at a Flat Rate Box on bullets and/or other items and could promote this. However, I think there maybe more loss/theft, which might have to be offset somewhere.

Shipping policy: Midway sells some items only to be sold to FFL's. This can be tricky when you start putting drop shipping policies in place that hundreds of employees need to follow. Why would Larry add the risk of having a screw-up in shipping to a non-ffl addressee, that could jeopardise his overall business? It's not a matter of trust,,,it's a matter of risk.

When I worked at Gander, they had some very forgiving policies that a portion of customers abused. They had 100% Satisfaction Guarantee on products and a very liberal return policy. Some of the abuses became known as the Renting program. for example:

We had a guy buy a pair of Rocky Boots and returned them 6 months later saying they leaked and that the boots should hold up better. (they were covered in concrete). They sent him a new pair at No charge...6 months later he returns the 2nd pair and gets a third pair for the same reason... They finally told the guy to move on after he tried to return the 3rd pair covered in concrete like the previous 2 pair....the guy got 3 pairs for the cost of one.....


Gander literally got dozens of high end optics back in early December, afer the hunting season, from customers who didn't like the clarity of their Zeiss or Swarovski that they bought in August.... They used them for their once-in-a lifetime hunt and didn't have a use for them after that...so they got their money back in time for Xmas.

I could tell you a dozen of stories (including the one about a porta-potty with a gift in it), that would make you wonder about some people's upbringing.


Generally if their is a policy in place, the reason is not to punish your own customers, but is in place because some azzholes abused a good program to the point where it cost everyone.


OK, let the flames begin.

Don

Don,

Not a bad post, at all. I like Graf's myself. They have a great website, list what is in stock, lower dealer prices and lower shipping rates. If they don't have what I need then Brownells or Sinclair Int'l does. Or Powder Valley. Or Shooter's Pro Shop. Or......

We have choices!

MtnHtr

Okay, Don...flame number one!

Did you actually read the description I posted about Midway refusing to ship FFL only items to the "mailing address" that is prominently displayed on the face of my FFL...and is also listed in my account records at Midway, and also shows up as the mailing address on their web site order form that shows up when I am logged on????? That mailing address was not put on my FFL by me, it was put on there by the issuing authority (ATF) when they printed the license. When the ATF sent me the damned license it was sent to my "mailing address."

That IS NOT "drop shipping." Drop shipping is when a small retailer takes orders for products that he does not keep in inventory and has the business that does keep the inventory ship the item to his customer.

Considering Midways retail prices compared to their dealer prices (not to mention their shipping costs) a guy would have to do a HUGE volume of business to make much money by using Midway as a supplier and "drop shipping" facility. In addition, as I found out, there are numerous retail stores that sell many of the same products that Midway sells at the exact same price Midway offers to dealers as a "discount."





I am a gunsmith, NOT a retailer.

Flame no. 2

"Why should it cost you $10 to ship a $6 item?? Because it's not efficient for a cataloger to ship 1 item. The cost to process the payment, print the pick ticket, pick the item for the order, and pack the one item, and create the shipping is not significantly less than doing the same for 20 items."

Why offer to sell only one item,if that be the case. Have a minimum order requirment.

Or better yet, as a favor to your customers, absorb part of the cost of the shipping of the one item, therefore creating a satisfied customer who might order several items the next time.

The way it is now, instead of attracting new customers and keeping the old ones satisfied, they are allienating both old and new customers.

There comes a time when all reputable businesses might not show a profit, or even lose money on small orders. That is just the cost of doing business, but I get the impression that Midway is trying to squeeze the last penny profit out of a sale, or else save that last penny profit regardless of what that penny cost them on down the road.

Sorry Rick,
This appeared to me that you wanted it shipped to a place other than your business premise or your mailing address.

Numbers 1 thru 7,


If you put a minimum order requirement in, than what happens when you absolutely need a part or product ASAP? I know guys that have stuffed delivered to hunting camps when an item broke or they forgot it at home...
Also Midway shows you the shipping cost at anytime during the order process using a variety of delivery methods.... YOu either can except it or choose not to...but you can't say they "suprized" you with a unexpected shipping charge. (Unless YOU choose to accept a backorder on an item).

1234567,

"Or better yet, as a favor to your customers, absorb part of the cost of the shipping of the one item, therefore creating a satisfied customer who might order several items the next time."

How do you absorb the shipping cost or partial cost on an $10 item, when the shipping will be $7.95??? The cataloger wouldn't make money on that order, or the thousands of other orders that would come in for small $$ expecting subsidized shipping.

With Gas at $3.29/gallon it costs me $7.00 in gas (not including and wear & tear on the truck) to drive to my nearest gunshop that stocks any significant supply of reloading/shooting. Half the time I go, there's an empty peg, or they don't stock it, or they can special order it the next time they place an order with their distributor.

That was just the last time...and it was the final straw for me, hence the title of the thread.

The item I wanted them to ship to me in Oregon was not an FFL only item...that I would have understood.

The same week I had both Dave Manson and Brownells ship stuff to me in Oregon and neither of them had the least bit of problem in doing so. Perhaps it's because they don't view me as either a crook or someone trying to undercut their business like Larry Potterfield obviously does.

I remember doing business with Gander Mountain mail order for years. The one thing I remember most is the out-of-stocks they had during their last year in business. Kind of like some of the orders I've tried to place with Midway.

I'm sure at one time Gander Mountain had a very liberal return and exchange policy. I also remember that towards the end it had become one of the poorest in the business. Bad customer service and excessive out-of-stocks have the habit of biting you where it hurts.

Interesting thread. I've not done business with Midway. The few times I've tried to put together an order I gave up because items were out of stock, plus the shipping was high enough for one shipment. Paying shipping for backorders would have driven the total shipping costs from high to astronomical, more than wiping out any price savings over other vendors. I went with vendors who could send the items that I wanted now even if the item prices were a bit higher.

Mr. Potterfield's reply sounded much like business school theory, profit centers, cost centers, match customer charges to the cost centers he uses, minimize inventory. This maximizes economic efficiencies for the business but does no good if the annoyance drives your customers elsewhere. But apparently Midway has struck a balance that fits its business plan, and good for them.

I like Brownell's, specifically that stuff is in stock, ships the same day, small orders are ok and customer service is great. Sometimes you just need a part right now, and maybe a little help selecting the right one, and can't wait to build up a sizable order. Prices are higher as a result but they make me happy and get my business.

MichiganScott,
Yeah the last couple years of the catalog was a PITA for customers. There just wasn't one reason that it fell in on itself, there were half-a-dozen issues. The Out-of-Stocks at Gander were a result of primarily 2 issues:
One, trying to manage the same inventory for Catalog and the retail stores at the same time. A catalog company can manage their inventory to having at least 1 in stock...as long as they can do that they are doing great...but in real life you have to have significant inventory to cover however many orders your going to receive before the next backfill order arrives. When you add 10-15 retail stores to the mix, the inventory issue becomes more complicated. Depending on the item, they needed 4-6 on the shelf of each store, just to have a decent display. The retail stores also had a slightly different sales curve than the catalog did, and so they would be out of stock if the Fall Catalog took off, (and sometimes to compensate for that they pulled excess inventory which deleted the catalog stock).

Secondly, Gander got themselves into financial troubles for a whole host of reasons, and the result is their credit with vendors was running day-to-day, further creating the out-of-stocks.


Inventory management systems today are much more sophisticated than in the 80's and early 90's, but there are things that are just out of the control of a cataloger- Vendors not shipping due to their own problems, spiking demand on items (primers, Surplus ammo, etc), delays in customs on imported goods, etc.


As far as I can tell, from my orders and what's on my Wish List, Midway is doing a much better job than Gander ever did at their peak. In fact, I placed an order today and I think i'll post it.

Here's my order to Midway today:

ItemID Qty Price Description
-------- ---- ------- -----------------------------------
462291 1 $19.99 Cerrosafe Chamber Casting Alloy ...

967105 10 $1.79 MTM Plastic Ammo Box 50-Round Fl...

796528 1 $14.99 Lyman "Cast Bullet Handbook: 3rd...

731116 1 $9.49 Frankford Arsenal Standard Brass...

125946 2 $1.79 MTM Plastic Ammo Box 50-Round Fl...




Postage, Handling & Insurance: $13.45
NRA Round-Up: $0.00
Order Total: $79.40



Yeah, the $13.45 does seem high on PH&I, but let's look a the issues: The 12 MTM boxes cost me $21.48; at the local shop here they are $2.49 each or $31.67 w/tax; at Cabela's I think they are at $2.79. (None of the Local gunshops had 10 qty of any MTM boxes).


The Greensboro Gander store has the Lyman cast book at $24.99; They didn't carry or were out of stock on the MTM boxes in the sizes I needed. BTW, they want $44.99 for a Lyman casting thermometer.


I believe Brownells is out of stock on the Cerrosafe.


Midway was out of stock on .380 sized MTM boxes, and also on BPI 10# bag of #12 shot and so I put those on my wish list. I know they don't run #12 shot very often, so I expect that to be awhile before it comes back in. If I wanted, I could punch in the "remind me" button and they would send me an email when it became available ( I also imagine they use this for checking demand on out-of-stocks).

The .380 boxes were in stock last week, but knowing that they are only $1.79 I'm not going to back order those. I'll just put them on my Wish List for when I place my next order.


All in All a very good experience.