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Lee24: The case lenght of one - the longest - of the Chinese .278 Mauser vesions was 65 mm, the case lenght of the .30-03 was of (nominal) 64,52 mm - 2.54 in.
Dennis said: "And for all I know, there still may be parts of the European continent where serious rifles would be in order."
You bet! Except in parts of France or vast parts of Italy, due to conversation and excellent wild animal management, and contrary to popular belief, we Europeans today do hunt & harvest MORE hoofed game animals than ever before.
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That was my impression, from a co-worker I once had who was born in Norway and went back every couple of years to hunt moose (elg) and reindeer on the family estates. I've read a little about hunting in eastern Europe, as well, and it seems as though some of that country is also pretty wild and unruly. Are there still places in Europe where brown bears can be legally hunted?
How easy is it for Europeans to travel from one country to another to hunt, under the EU? Better, or not, than before?
thanks,
Dennis
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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Not to digress, but the .270 Winchester is based off the .30-03 case, not the .30-06. Lee24- You've stated this before in this thread from 3 months ago. Some pretty reliable published statements for the 30-06 as the parent case included those of Phil Sharpe and Jack O'Connor. You were unable to cite even one published source to support your opinion then. What new documentation have you uncovered? --Bob
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1. That was my impression, from a co-worker I once had who was born in Norway and went back every couple of years to hunt moose (elg) and reindeer on the family estates. I've read a little about hunting in eastern Europe, as well, and it seems as though some of that country is also pretty wild and unruly.
2. Are there still places in Europe where brown bears can be legally hunted?
3. How easy is it for Europeans to travel from one country to another to hunt, under the EU? Better, or not, than before?
thanks,
Dennis
ad 1. Well, many parts here are crowded with people which does not mean there is no good hunts. ~350 k hunters kill well over 1,15 mio. roe deer and 0,6 mio wild boar in GE. There is very wild country in the north - Scandinavia - and in the east. I took two moose in Sweden last fall and although the Euro mooose is comparable to a Shiras only, it is real work. ad 2. Brown bear is common in Skandinavia, in the East, and the Alps. in Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria and Rumania Brown bear are hunted on a regular base. Compared to your "socalistic" license system we do have a very capitalistic "area" hunting system - the ground owner holds all the hunting rights - so bear hunting is pretty expensive ($$ about like Grizzly in Alaska). ad 3. Travelling even with guns is and was very easy in Europe, sometimes easier than travelling to the States (thanks to 9/11).
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Jack O�Connor�s dedication to the .270 Winchester which originated from the early 30-03 military cartridge case (not the 30-06 as is widely believed), convinced many American big game hunters who wanted accuracy without a wallop of recoil, to try the cartridge. Ironically, O�Connor and another popular gun scribe, Idahoan Elmer Keith, clashed over the favorable aspects of the .270 versus the 30-06 in a battle that wore on throughout both writer�s long lives.
- A .270-ist never runs out of conversation
By Paul Bruun
Jackson Hole News
Date: October 18, 2006
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The latest Mauser cartridge would be the .376 Steyr, which is a 9.3x64 Brenneke necked up to .375 (again, with the slightly larger European bore.
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Charles Newton's cartridges were developed for the 98 Mauser.
He originally was just going to license the cartridges to an established company, like Marlin, but he was jerked around.
His first rifles were made for the Charles Newton Rifle Company by Mauser in Oberndorf, but Mauser was swamped with their own business, and slow delivering to Newton.
Newton designed his own rifle and tried to get Marlin to market it, under a new company, the Buffalo Newton Rifle Company, in Buffalo, New York.
His .256 Newton is not a .25 caliber, but a .264. He wanted more powder than the 6.5x57mm, but he wanted the shoulder of the 7x57, so he trimmed the .30-06 to 2.457 inches, then necked it down.
You can make .256 Newton brass the same way. After trimming it, carefully neck it down with a .257 Roberts die, then expand the neck to .264.
His .30 Newton was just too powerful for the slim stock, because the action had no front recoil lug. It is recognizable by a slim bolt handle with a small ball on the end. I will try to take photo and post it.
The 6x57 became the 6mm Remington, then the .244 Remington.
I had one in a Browning B-78. Quite a shooter!
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Jack O�Connor�s dedication to the .270 Winchester which originated from the early 30-03 military cartridge case (not the 30-06 as is widely believed), convinced many American big game hunters who wanted accuracy without a wallop of recoil, to try the cartridge. Ironically, O�Connor and another popular gun scribe, Idahoan Elmer Keith, clashed over the favorable aspects of the .270 versus the 30-06 in a battle that wore on throughout both writer�s long lives.
- A .270-ist never runs out of conversation
By Paul Bruun
Jackson Hole News
Date: October 18, 2006 Well...that settles that! Paul Bruun of the Jackson Hole News is certainly a far more credible firearms authority than Phil Sharpe and Jack O'Connor. Now, who the freak is Paul Bruun again? For all anyone knows, he made the statement in the article because he read your thread six months ago and believed you. Unlike the rest of us... DN ps...the .244 Remington came out first; then Remington changed the rifling twist to shoot heavier bullets better and renamed it the 6mm Remington. That one is pretty easy to document...
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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The latest Mauser cartridge would be the .376 Steyr, which is a 9.3x64 Brenneke necked up to .375 (again, with the slightly larger European bore. Nope...the .376 Steyr would be the latest development of the company of that famed European wildcatter, Baron Ferdinand Ritter von Mannlicher, now known as Steyr-Mannlicher. (You could start another European conflict by calling something developed in Austria a German development.) If you want to find its proper provenance, look to the 9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer -- that was their first attempt at a ".375" bore. Use of the Brenneke case design is a matter of convenience, not the development of a "Mauser" cartridge. DN
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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WOW OUTCAST,and I thought I was the only one who liked dark beer. Long live Guinness X-tra Stout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tried Samuel Adams Winter Lager(seasonal brew)?
til later
Looks like the original thread got lost. As long as I'm alive you won't be the only guy on this thread who likes dark beer. We can argue till the end of time but, the Germans make great beir, great rifles and great cartridges. The terrain over there is as wild and tough as it gets, the hunters I've met there are real gentlemen. The downside is : it takes a ton of money and a college degree to get a liscense. The last firearm I purchased was a Walther P38 and I'm having a ball with it.
Too old to suffer fools
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muledeer, I guess if you don't consider the 9.3x64 Brenneke a Mauser cartridge, then necking it up to .375 means the .376 Steyr isn't a Mauser cartridge, either.
I happen to think if Steyr had developed a .375 from scratch, like the .375 Ruger, then it would be soley a Steyr cartridge.
By the way, I am a big Mannlicher fan, having owned a 1950 in 6.5x54, an 1952 in .30-06, and just bought a Steyr M Luxus carbine in (gasp!) .270 WCF.
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1. That was my impression, from a co-worker I once had who was born in Norway and went back every couple of years to hunt moose (elg) and reindeer on the family estates. I've read a little about hunting in eastern Europe, as well, and it seems as though some of that country is also pretty wild and unruly.
2. Are there still places in Europe where brown bears can be legally hunted?
3. How easy is it for Europeans to travel from one country to another to hunt, under the EU? Better, or not, than before?
thanks,
Dennis
ad 1. Well, many parts here are crowded with people which does not mean there is no good hunts. ~350 k hunters kill well over 1,15 mio. roe deer and 0,6 mio wild boar in GE. There is very wild country in the north - Scandinavia - and in the east. I took two moose in Sweden last fall and although the Euro mooose is comparable to a Shiras only, it is real work. ad 2. Brown bear is common in Skandinavia, in the East, and the Alps. in Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria and Rumania Brown bear are hunted on a regular base. Compared to your "socalistic" license system we do have a very capitalistic "area" hunting system - the ground owner holds all the hunting rights - so bear hunting is pretty expensive ($$ about like Grizzly in Alaska). ad 3. Travelling even with guns is and was very easy in Europe, sometimes easier than travelling to the States (thanks to 9/11). Outstanding! Maybe I can get one more tour in Europe! Expat
"There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men." - Robert Heinlein
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