Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Modern in-line capabilitys....

You must remember that any idjit can pick up a quill and call himself a writer/author/authority... When I worked in the hunting trade, I was able to rub elbows with many of the finest OWAA authors that exist. To be perfectly fair, most were equipment and endorsement whores with an ego as big as the all outdoors. 99% didn't know Jack from a practical perspective. But, they sure knew how to write about it :-)



If you want to truly enjoy the BP sport, recognize that a smokestick is a limited range weapon. The idea should not be "how far", but rather "how close". The extended range of the newer tools should be more of a "just in case" in my way of thinking. Get the mindset of "hunting" your quarry instead of simply "shooting" your quarry and you'll be a far more effective predator in the field. "If you can get closer...get closer"...



The world advances, technology moves on and things change. I am certainly not blind to this and I own the latest high-tech BP weapons made. The evolution of the BP weapon is no different than the changes witnessed in archery and in the rifles/calibers we're seeing the manufacturers produce today. Their whole intent is to widen your killing radius for greater success afield. They need to offer a product with more potential lethality than the next manufacturer or they will fall behind.



The unfortunate part of this is that some irresponsible outdoor writers seeking an ego boost, endorsements, etc will put the mindset into folks that 200 and even 300 yard shots with the latest wondersticks are not only possible, but normal. The uninformed idjit of far less than average marksmanship ability (and brains) that buys one of these will then hit the woods and try to duplicate what he's been told his fire-belching wonderstick is capable of. That is how animals get wounded.



The manufacturers of these new rifles don't help matters much with their advertising of extended lethality either. Very sad indeed.

AgentSmith,..... You are a "scholar and gentleman", with lots of "insight"!!
I really liked yore "post",.... thank you!!

Now!!.... "HOW" do we "correct the mis-information", these fellas are put'n out in "print" to the general-public thru magazines and such, to fellas "new" to this sport?? I'm do'n "my best" (as are others) on these web-sites with the hope thet some game-animal won't suffer unnecessarily 'cause'a some "idiot" thet's only innerested in "MONEY",.... and I'm definitly "open" to any/all suggestions, thet others may have!!

Thank you sir...



It is not really misinformation in many cases, it is hype...and hype sells product.



If these writers/manufacturers would focus more on accuracy, simplicity, economy, functionality and dependability, it would serve the consumer far better. But, that is one man's opinion and it is what I look for in a BP rifle. As stated before, I have all the high-tech toys that exist. However, when purchasing them I did not stray from my criteria as outlined above.



Getting the manufacturers to change their marketing hype is far easier than getting the writers to police themselves. Remember, you can change the design, quality, features, cost and advertising for a product without major difficulty. It's pretty hard to change someone's ego and motivation however... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Rollinb, I think I'll just stay on this side of the border. Any muzzle loader using 250 gr of Pyrosht pellets is not a muzzle loader in the real aspect of muzzleloading it is a freak. The more I see of these freaks the more I like Washington states laws. Technology is not the answer for those of us who use muzzle loading weapons, skill is the answer. if you hunt with a side lock or ugly in-line should not make any difference if the rules are such as the spirt of the original 18th and 19th century muzzle loading fire arms followed. You technology freaks can figure it out.



Bullwnkl.

I gave up tryin ta save'm all rondo', like "agent" say's it's about money and marketing and "whore" writers. Just had a blowout with a writer last week, he flat-out told me he "had" to give a good report about hornady sabot's or they would no longer endorse him!
So, I've given in ta winning'm over one at a tyme. I usually get 1 or 2 a year,and help "guide" others on the way. If a man NEED'S meat ta feed his family well,,,what can ya say?. Rest assured many around these parts still enjoy sport and the hunt,, and teach that to our childern,,, I got that in-liner last year just by sharing some powder and givin him my cedar powder measure, we'er still pal's <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> got another just 2week's ago by showin'm cut at the muzzle prb vrs. condom projectiles ( gav'im a wad of patch ta shoot,took a bit, but he finally called back sayin he got it!)
I think what we'er called,,is the silent majority,,:)
no brag,,just fact,, 300 years of fact. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(SIGH!!..) Yeah!!.. yore probly right, ther ain't no such thing as git'n "rid" of all the "hype"!

It seem's as tho the writer's and the market'ers "GOLDEN RULES" are,..... "If ya cain't dazzle'em with BRILLIANCE,.... then, baffle'em with BULLS#!T"!!.... and,.... "ther is a SUCKER born ever minute"!!

I reckon the "in-line industry" will continue to git rich,..... 'til ther thecnical-advancements cause's them to "self-detruct",..... only THEN, will most "in-liner's" go back to ther centerfire rifleguns, or,.. discover what "REAL" muzzleload'n is ALL about.

See'ns how:.....

most of'em use,..... "primers"

and, some of'em even use,...... "smokeless powder"

and, they ain't got,..... "traditional stocks"

and, 98% of'em have,..... "scopes"

and, 96% of'em shoot,..... "jacketed bullets"

and, some fellers buy'em 'cause they,..... "feel like ther good ol' Model 70"

and, 'cause,.... "if it walks like'a duck, and it looks like a duck, then it must be,.... some kind'a duck"!!

From this day forward, I will no longer refer to such rifles as "in-lines",... but,.. only as,..... "MODIFIED CENTERFIRES",.... in my future posts!!

Now hang on a minute fellers. Once again, you are comparing YOUR abilities and ethics with someone elses. It just ain't right. Let me give you an exampl. I was shooting last year with a new shooter. We were shooting rifles. He said, "I would never shoot anything over 200 yards." I handed him my rifle (.25-284 at the time) ranged an 8 inch rock at 653 yards, dialed in the target turrets on the scope to said range and told him to shoot it. He said, "How high do I hold over it." I said, "Paste the cross hairs on it and shoot it." He shook his head and neslted in for the shot (by far his longest ever). He hit the switch and the rock exploded! He held the rifle out with his mouth open and couldn't believe it. Next he got behind his rifle, which shoots MIGHTY fine, especially for a box stock factory rifle. I did some math and dialed in his scope for the same range and told him to kill a rock next to the one he already clobbered, only this time, with his rifle. He got comfy and hit the switch. The rock erupted and he was all grins. His comments were, "I would have NEVER believed that was possible....NEVER!"

Two weeks later, he was busting prairie dogs at 300 yards with the same .30-06 that he had never shot at over 200 yards. He is an up and coming marksman.

My point is, with good equipment, knowledge and practice, 300 yards with a muzzleloader is not unethical, just because you can't or won't do it. Many muzzle loader shooters will run 2,000 rounds a year through their rifles out to 350 yards (I know several). I can honestly say, I wouldn't want to be a deer at 350 yards with them on the trigger. I know for a fact, I would be dead. You shoot what muzzle loader and projectile you want to at your predetermined max range, but don't expect others to do the same. I don't expect you to drive a Toyota because I do and you shouldn't expect me to drive a Chevy, because you do. 300 yards is far from the exception for a couple of my muzzle loader buddies. They are absolutely incredible behind a smoke pole. Flinch

Flinch, I believe you are missing the point.



That point being that when average Joe consumer reads this malarky, he may attempt it because some nobody wrote, "it's possible". That is how animals get wounded and that part never seems to enter the minds of these "world's most no-doubt experts".



Trust me, you add the wind factor into the equation and even the experts are capable of wounding animals with their 300-350 yard ML's and .350BC bullets.

I�ll get all whiney about this from a different angle. The zone I hunt is slug-only during the firearms season. If I purchase a buck license the season is six-days, and shorter with an either sex tag.

Since the modern in-line is a �primitive weapon�, most of which will out-perform a shotgun slug, the season is 15-days, statewide, and either sex.

Sheesh�

Flinch,.... so what yore say'n is,.... yore friends can hit a 6" "kill zone" on a live'n critter at the distance of 350 yds.,.... thet "may" at any give'n second take a "step forward, or turn",.... consistantly 10 out of 10 times, regardless of,.... wind,... physical exertion,... "low-light conditions",.... weather/temp conditions,.... and etc.
And they can do all this with a rifle whose "ballistics" have drastically deminished by the time the bullet has reached 350 yds.????

Yore friends may not approve of you make'n such "claims" 'bout'em!!

Ya gotta remember thet we're talk'n "ETHICS" here, in regards to hunt'n REAL live big-game animals,..... not "ROCKS"!!

BTW,.... I drive a Dodge Cummins diesel!!

Jog,.... Where did you ever git the "idea" thet the modern modified-centerfire rifle was a "primitive weapon"????

Rollingb,

I was being sarcastic. The generous muzzleloader seasons Minnesota has were born back in the days where folks actually used muzzleloaders. Rifle hunters looked at the firearms you folks used and said, "Well, 15-days sounds fair".

With the in-lines out-performing almost all slugs and quite a few rifles, the rifle hunters aren't so generous now. It wouldn't surprise me to see some significant changes in the ML season around here.

Jog,

Actually the big difference between muzzleloaders,even in lines, and slugguns is that they are single shot. In lines are harder to ram a bullet home than traditional so even slower to get a second shot off . . You never hear them 20 shot barrages with ML's and most ML hunters don't do the big drive thing, everybody shooting at anything that comes your way. Realistically for the average joe who actually sites his sluggun or ML in and finds a bullet/slug that shoots the sluggun is a 125 yarder and the ML a 150 yarder. Internet babble aside. You could always get an in line and use it during the regular season like I do.

I'm tired of this forum... Intolerant people like many of you here are why we'll eventually lose the good ol' USA to the anti-gun crowd. Why? Because they agree that they want rid of guns, us pro-gun people want to slice and dice what's accepted for what and in the end that helps the anti's do the traditional "divide and conquer".

Nowhere in the states that I hunt do they use the word traditional. It is called muzzleloader season and thus essentially it has to be loaded from the front. Although scopes have been around since before the civil war, they don't allow them either.

Like I said earlier, if you guys feel this strongly about it then get off the damn computer and try to change the legislation to your ideals and you won't have to put up with others beliefs. You can talk about me all you want (and I'm sure you will), I won't be coming back to this muzzleloading forum (note the name by the way - muzzleloading forum, not traditional forum), it sucks and many (not all) of the people are so narrow-minded they probably couldn't see even if they managed to get their head out of their @$$ long enough to look around.
It's been real, but it hasn't been fun...

OK!! Jog,...... "NOW",... I unnerstand <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey!!..... did ya see Shrike's post on anuther topic?? He says thet in Alberta, the game officials consider the modified-centerfire (in-line) to be the "same as" a "single-shot" cartridge rifle, and they don't allow'em dur'n "muzzleloader" season!!

Purty innerest'n,... huh!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Bambihunter,.... I'm sorry you feel thet way,.... but, we have jest as much "right" to speak our minds as you do!!

If you were a "hardcore-dedicated-muzzleshooter",.... you'd stick around,... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!!

Seems that Bambihunter just dosen't get it. all he see's is attack against his "modified center fire " rifle he does not see that using such a weapon in a muzzle loading season is seen by may as not being in the spirt of the original muzzle loading tradition. "Modified center fire "weapons may increase ones chances of killing an animal but where is the tradition in that? there is something lost when scopes, jacked bullets, shotgun primers and weather proof locks are used. The hunt just becomes an extension of the modern centerfire season. The more I think about it the more I like Washington states regulations. Under Washington rules there is paritiy between types of guns used, ugly in-lines are no better than beautiful side locks. Get rid of the pyrosh#t pellets and we would be trully equal.

Bullwnkl.

Call me stupid, but did an individual with the moniker, "BambiHunter" just give us a lecture in how not to help the cause of the forces arrayed against sportsmen??



I really feel ashamed now for calling a spade a spade and am very sorry this individual decided to depart our company. See the tear...it's there...honest to Betsy...

Hi JOG <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I'm new to this site,, but I'm a Minn. native, I live just north of Cloudytown,my work is near the same burg.
Where ya hail from?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Bambihunter,!?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> best wishes to ya,,shoot what ya want! You'll never sway a traditional shooter to those almost but not quite center fire rig's <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. However,us traditional shooters will still be here for ya though,,anytime ya wanna join the true spirit/true joy of the hunt vrs. your skills and game.
to quote an old freind; best regards,tacks