Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Parent case for .270 win.???

Original velocity for factory .270 WCF was 3,140 fps with 130-gr flat-base bullets, but they backed off to 3,060 - a marketing ploy that persists to today's WSM cartridges.

I got no dog in this fight but looking objectively it seems mighty hard to argue with Mike378 and IDshooter who actually took the time to test things for themself. Good on ya boys! Their data is scientifically drawn and not hereditary. As such it appears to me Lee has it right folks. You can argue about who said what in what book or article but as to the original question the answer seems to me to be 30-03 unless someone can counter 378 and ID's conclusions.

"Original velocity for factory .270 WCF was 3,140 fps with 130-gr flat-base bullets, but they backed off to 3,060 - a marketing ploy that persists to today's WSM cartridges."

I agree with the WSM "marketing ploy" statement but I question the other part about the speed being backed down. I've always understood that the 3140 was reduced because it was found that that speed was difficult to reach without pressure spikes etc. that made the lower 3,060 easier to keep in line without pressure problems...

Dew

Pre WWI, China had 6.8x57 and 6.8x60 cartridges. (DWM #511A-E)

Somewhere I read Winchester had a contract to make some of this ammunition for them, but I can't find the reference.

Winchester: "We have these .277 bullet-making dies. What can we do with them?"

Bruce

The original Winchester claim for the 270 Win. was actually 3160 fps. with a 130 gr. bullet out of a 24" bbl., and they did actually achieve that velocity or come very close to it, and I have myself chronographed old factory 270 Win. 130 gr. loads that did clock over 3100 fps. and out of a 22" bbl., no less.

Of course, all sorts of non-factory 270 Win. rifles have been built since 1925 on countless military actions of all descriptions, some of which have been brittle or soft; not to mention barrels with varying actual bore diameters, odd throat and lead dimensions, crooked chambers, etc., etc. Some of these rifles simply weren't suitable for use with high-pressure 270 Win. factory ammo, so prudently, the factories cut back on the powder, and they've gone to seating the bullets pretty deeply as well. I've chronographed recent factory 270 Win. 130 gr. loads that were under 2800 fps., and accuracy was abysmal, at least in my rifle.

So I personally consider the 270 Win. to be primarily a handloaders cartridge, and Bob Nosler once stated that very opinion to me himself.

I don't have any trouble achieving the same sort of results that Jack O'Connor and Bob Lee reported with 130 gr. and 150 gr. bullets out of most of the 270 Win. rifles I've owned (mostly with 22" bbls.) and my own current rifle (22" tube/1-10" twist) gets 3140 fps. with the 130 gr. Nosler Partition, Winchester cases, Federal 215 primers, and H4831sc powder.

Back in the good ol' days, John Jobson reported 3200 fps. with 130s out of his 270s, but his pressures must have been very high - too high for my liking, and for any 270 Win. rifle I've ever owned.

AD

I can offer the following information for consideration. From The American Rifleman
July 1, 1925 �A New Winchester Bolt Action Rifle� by E.A. Price � The new .270 WCF cartridge designed especially for this rifle is a praiseworthy achievement of our New Haven friends. It is simply the .30 Springfield shell necked down to .270 caliber, the shell being very slightly lengthened in the process.�

Mauser had nothing to do with the 30-03, 30-06 or the bullet. Around 1914 Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik (DWM) filed for a patent infringement not on the 30-06 but the spitzer bullet, the case was not settled until 1928 when DWM was awarded $400,000.

Out of court, the US Government also agreed to pay a royalty to Mauser for the design of the 1903 Springfield.

I think some people misunderstood when I said that the initial .270 MV of 3,140 fps was "marketing hype like the the WSMs", as meaning the numbers are phony. No, the numbers of the .270 WCF and the WSMs were real, but obtained with high pressures. Then they are relaxed after sales took off. They did the same with the .300 Win Mag.