Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire It is not just cops

In one of the threads below, I posted a pretty inflammatory post about cops. I don't back down from it and I feel that way. However, perhaps, it didn't express the true depth or nature of my frustration and cynicism.

Yes, I understand that there are good, honest, hardworking cops who only enforce the laws. However, the laws have become oppressive and unfair. Does it not bother any of you LEOs that a farmer who may have violated some obscure environmental law can be raided by police and federal agents in combat gear? Or a tax evader can have his front door blown off by cops and agents? Or a blind man in California can be shot as he comes down the stairs carrying a blackpowder pistol in an attempt to defend himself when police raid his home because he had one marijuana plant growing on his 650 acre property? I'm sure all the agents and police in these events were nice guys with families who were just doing their jobs, it still didn't help their victims, the last guy is dead. Like it or not, LEOs, you are the enforcers and the symbols of these laws. Aggresive policing of these laws results in needless conflicts and raised tensions. When will the police start taking responsibility for these sorts of things and stop hiding behind the "we don't make the laws" dodge. I'm sure the Polizei who started working when the Kaiser was in power, through the Weimar Republic, and ended his career rounding up Jews to send to the camps said the same thing. And I am sure that he was a decent guy who had a family and kids and drank beer on the weekends with his buddies.

Fact is, people fear the cops today because they know that there are many laws that can result in otherwise good and harmless people running into conflict with cops. They know that given the slightest excuse, cops will exercise their authority with the maximum amount of force. Some cops revel in this fear and the fact that they represent the power of an awesome state apparatus. Even those of you who don't think about it all that much, have to, upon reflection admit that you embody this power and that there is great potential for abuse. But what is abuse? Merely doing your job and following the laws as written can result in otherwise harmless people being arrested and imprisoned, often for crimes that were not crimes six months ago or for things that aren't crimes across the state line. Do these people deserve to be imprisoned or harassed? How does it make you feel to have a part in that?

LEOs and others claim that we make our own laws by elections? Well, how many of you actually believe that? Even if completely true, do you want the absolute say in what is right and wrong based on the opinion of 51 percent of the registered voters who bothered to vote? Do you really think you have any say in determining obscure regulatory rules and laws?

All of this is to say that LEOs represent the sharp edge of an oppressive centralized government. They may be good people and they may try to do their job as well as possible, but they cannot get away from what they are. It gets worse continually. As to protecting me from bad people, well, I'm glad they're doing it. I really don't feel I need the protection, but is nice. However, I don't feel it is worth the cost in civil liberties. Afterall, I hear that street crime was very low in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

I don't fear cops. In fact, I trust 'em. Never been one either and none have ever been family members. I am sorry you are so paranoid.

Man, what a load of crap. At the least you sound like someone who has something to hide, or ran into a bad cop at some point and have never gotten over it. We have all run into one at some time, but a few choose to generalize and preach that all cops are tainted, power-hungry, twisted bastards. I bet all teachers are that way too, because you got in trouble by one of them for smoking at school. You need to lighten up on it and realize that not all of these people are as dimented as you'd like to paint them to be. If your attitude is like this every time you run into a person in authority, it seems pretty clear that you likely have seen the tougher side of them. They have no idea what's going on in that skull of yours, but it's very likely not something to warm up to. Get off the paranoid Gestapo thing and grow up a little.

Joe,

How any moons are there in your planet?

Our cops come armed to the teeth when enforcing the law for the
simple reason that they have to or get sent home with their
tails between their legs or in body bags. The bad guys are
very well armed and mean as snakes.

The only "solution" is to disarm the citizenry at large and
this only means the law-abiding citizenry. The criminal rest
then can have their way with society as they are doing now in
Australia and in the UK, where cops, as they would in your
world, go unarmed.

It's a war, not a tea party.

1B

Cossatotjoe,

Lets take some of your points(?) and look them over.



And the LEO's that actually shot the guy knew he was blind right? What did they see but an armed man coming at them. He could have been anybody. What about the officers? Is it fair that every time an officer has to use his/her weapon that they face a lawsuit? Isn't it bad enough that they feel terrible for having to take a life that they end up worrying about keeping their home and family due to a lawsuit? Why not try walking a mile in our shoes first.



Just how would YOU go about enforcing the laws? Do you really think that walking up to a 240 lb. man that is beating the c*#@ out of his wife/girlfriend and saying "Kind Sir could you PLEASE refrain from what you're doing and come over here and talk to me for a moment." is going to work? Give me a break. Do you actually believe that LEO's make the laws?



You have attended school haven't you? Laws are made by elected officials that YOU(by you I mean people) help put in office. You don't like a law, go out and work to change the law. Don't blame the ones sworn to enforce them.



This needs more explanation from you. You like to be protected from bad people but don't think you need it. Yet why is it people like you are the ones that holler the loudest for a LEO when they are getting their rights violated.



And you believe what the Nazi Propaganda machine put out when they came to power? You don't think that before the breakup of the Soviet Union that they didn't have crime? Their crime rate was and is near as high as many areas here. You need to grow up and get your facts straight. Lawdog

Two of my favorite old proverbs are:

"Who guards the guards"

and

"Good iron is not used for nails, nor good men for [enforcers]."

I'm not paraniod, neither am I some kiss @$$ cop wannabe.

CJ's right - it's NOT just cops.

Now that I got your attention, I'd like to expand on part of Lawdog's post...



Too many citizens think that just because THEIR guy lost (or even won) the election that they have or need no say in the legislative process. The game is NOT over the day of the election. Freedom requires CONSTANT active participation in government (politics).

The reason we have so much done TOO us by politicians is because they know that relatively few people are really watching, and even fewer will take effective action to right governmental abuses. So it ain't just cops - it's US.

Sure - I've heard all the excuses, like "most folks don't have the time or money to be politically active". The truth is - in THIS country, at least - MOST OF US have the time and/or the money to make a difference. We just don't care enough. We'd rather spend our leisure time in front of the boob tube or down at the bowling alley. We'd rather spend all our extra cash on another toy or another adventure.

Friends, I see this pathetic stuff all the time. I am constantly involved in the political system - all year, every year. It amazes me to see 1) how much difference a few dedicated people can make, and 2) how pitifully few people are willing to get actively involved.

In fact - the folks who are most likely to get involved, in many cases, are the ones who don't mind seeing YOUR rights go down the toilet! They are the ones looking for a handout or for a Big Brother. WHILE YOU SLEEP, they plan and execute their next "improvements".

The kicker is - THERE AIN'T THAT MANY OF THEM! We (freedom lovers) could outnumber them easily, if we would just get off our duffs (or spend less time in the woods) and make a showing.

Legislatures and City councils do respond to pressure from the people - in spite of the nay-saying that you may hear (or speak). I SEE IT. I LIVE IT. You cannot convince me otherwise. And if you try, I will know that you have little or no experience in the matter.

You cannot send your $34 a year to the NRA and expect the NRA to do all the work. It takes more than that. It takes some sacrifice. It may mean you don't get to take that fishing trip sometimes. Or you can't have that new wide-screen TV. You may have to take heat from the wife and kids while you give them a civics lesson in why it is more important for you to take a day off work than to buy that new "thing", or to spend some vacation time lobbying for freedom instead of Disneyland.

If you do less, while piling on the cops for all the abuses of government, then IMO you are guilty of hypocrisy. You want the LEO community to take all the heat for resisting bad law? Well, ain't that just the way we (The People) are.

I put to you that if we can't do better than that, then we DESERVE what we are stuck with. And no amount of cop-bashing will help us.

Some of you may say, "I do my part. I write letters. I attend legislature and city council meetings. I lobby for freedom. I participate in protest, etc." To those, I say - "great!" But you and I both know that we are in the minority - EVEN HERE.

We can make all the excuses and accusations that we want - but the bottom line is "...the people get the government they deserve". Freedom is EARNED - not inherited!

FreeMe (rant at idle)

Haggis YOU gaurd the gaurds. Have you manned your post (besides complaining here)?

As to your second quote - I don't know or care where it came from. It is just a quote - probably from some other mope who thinks/thought himself a "good man" (your invitation to prove me wrong) - and likely out of context, besides.

-FreeMe

8ball, I think what the man is trying to say is city councils and other law making branches of local and state governments require police officers to write citations for little chicken shiz laws they make to gather revenew from the masses for their expenditures. I hate the seat belt law or the helmit law, this infringes on my personal choice and is of no concern of anyone else. I don't know of anyone getting free medical attention but hear a lot from politicians about it. A citation regardless of guilt decided in court still calls for court fees even if the case is dropped. That's legal graft any way you put it. If an officer writes a citation and the defendant beats the case the officer should pay the court costs, also attorneys fees. Would stop a lot of legal rip offs. -- no <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Both quotes have been around for a few thousands of years.

As for the first quote, I'm doing my best to spread the word that the guards can't be trusted right here.

As for the second quote, it's from a Chinese philosopher some 2500 years ago. Its truth is what has kept it around for so long.

See? There's another one of those quotes that give me the willies, sorta like the "Why would you object to a search?" I quoted from a certain ex-cop.

Seems like responses to these Cop threads here fall into two camps, "Cops are wonderful" vs Cops are a "waste of skin". Might be relevant to point out some of my own experiences...

In twenty-plus years of teaching I've known a lot of High School Cops. Some are great, they become community police in the truest sense of the word, they KNOW the kids, good and bad, and many kids come to them for help and advice on legal matters. On the other hand, I've known of two such Cops taking advantage of the eighteen year-old Senior girls, one of whom comically skipped town with his wife after a girl turned up pregnant (the other was fired).

Along the same lines as School Cops, at school I have met some very fine and caring Gang Unit Cops whose work brought them into frequent contact with minors (one of which Cops was an attractive blonde with her own gun collection. Man, half the guys at the range were totally smitten.... sigh!).

I have taught many delinquent kids who had frequent dealings with police. By and large they would give honest assessments of the Cops they had dealt with, some Cops were respected, a few were well known scrotes.

Through these same kids I have learned two things never to say to Cops: "Shouldn't you be off eating donuts somewhere?" and "Can we wait until the REAL police get here"., which resulted in about an extra $300 in citations on the one hand, and some extra bruises on the other.

Along those same lines the funniest tale was related by a tough gangster kid well known to me for years, he had assaulted another kid with a baseball bat one afternoon after the other kid had driven by his house and shot at it some nights before. Leaving the scene of the assault he was apprehended by two Cops who, to hear him tell it, began to rough him up on the right side of the cruiser away from the video camera. Repeatedly he tried to throw himself in front of the camera to get it on tape only to be dragged back every time by the Cops.

I do know of a tragedy where a troubled and slightly retarded young man and a young Police Officer both died because of inept mismanagement of a warrant. The kid, who had been raped in jail, was being picked up for a minor parole violation and prefered to die rather than go back. Unfortunately he took a young Cop with him. The arresting Officer was just serving a warrant originating from another Law Enforcement agency and had no clue what he was walking in to or the background of the kid.

A family aquaintance was for a while a suspect in a violent felony investigation. During this time the man, who had no prior criminal record, endured repeated visits at his office workplace from a Detective working the case such that he lost his job. By time it was all over he was destitute and living with his parents.

One case I am embittered about is that of a young man well known to me who's life has been absolutely ruined by an aggressive Detective following the letter rather than the spirit of the law, who took advantage of an otherwise law-abiding young man's trust and naivite to obtain incriminating statements absent a lawyer (the irony being that any of the actual criminals I have taught would have known enough to "have the right to remain silent").

Didn't just ruin the kid, ruined his working-class parents too when they hired a lawyer after the fact. In this case the punishment definitely did NOT fit the crime. I am reluctant to go into specifics about this case on a public forum but I do wonder how a certain Detective manages to look at himself in the mirror.

Birdwatcher

LAwdog;
cossatojoe brings up a good point: what exactly is the criteria for involving local law enforcement on a raid? I mean, I recognize the cases that he's referring to and I've always wondered why the local yokels participated. Do the feds come in and say, "We need help with another drug dealing, baby raping, gun-totin' looney. Bring all of your SWAT stuff and let's go get this scumbag!!" or what? Are the local cops acting under orders? Do they have the choice to sit it out? On the surface, it seems like it comes down to "just following orders" a lousy defense for a soldier that killed civilians for no reason, and an even lousier one for a civilian police force.

I've never been a cop, don't want to be, and hope I never need one bad enough to call 911. But I sometimes wonder, do any of them ever question the Constitutionality of what they're doing? "No knock" warrants and confiscation of private property for crimes not yet tried in court are two of the reasons that the colonies revolted against the British. The cops I've known and associated with are above average in intelligence and political awareness, it seems inevitable that they ask themselves from time to time whether or not what they're doing is right.

I truly fear for this country and I have lost all hope when I see posts where people ask me to feel sorry for the cop who shot the old blind guy. Executing people is tough. That is why the Nazis started using gas, the guards couldn't handle the emotional stress of shooting that many people. The better question is, what in the hell were the cops doing in that old man's home in the first place? Did one marijuana plant on a 650 acre ranch warrant federal, state, and local police storming his house and busting down his door in an early morning raid? Can it be a coincidence that the city council had tried to unsucessfully annex his property earlier in the year and that federal drug statutes would allow them confiscate it if it were found to be used in the growing or manufacture of drugs? The point is, what were these cops thinking? Did they honestly think it was right to go into this old guy's house? If not, why did they go? Just following orders? We hung people at Nurenburg who were just following orders. My point is cops go around wondering why everyone hates them and having a persecution complex. Happenings like this are why.

Why is it necessary to execute a no knock warrant with overwhelming force on an old man's house with no felonies on his record who has one marijuana plant on his property? Average law abiding citizens are not expecting the cops to break down their door. If my door is broken down, I'm going for a gun because I'm not thinking it is going to be the cops. I'm thinking it is going to be criminals out to do me harm. Of course, I can't see much difference in this sort of situation. In any case, do none of you LEOs see how in many cases these no knock warrants could actually INCREASE the chance of someone getting shot, usually the suspect. I suppose you don't really care about the suspect because afterall his is a SUSPECT. That is the attitude I am talking about. I am not asking you to go politely up to a drug dealer or murderer and politely ask him to go downtown. I am asking you to question why it is necessary to execute a no knock warrant on an old man or a tax evader. Do you not understand that it may increase the risk for everyone? What about human dignity? Cops like to be known as public servants. One of the key defining characteristics of a servant is that he values his worth or welfare second to someone else's. LEOs appear to use the maximum amount of force to protect their own lives when that force places members of the public in danger. Remember, a person is innocent until proven guilty and that suspect is most likely a taxpayer and therefore, technically one of your employers and a member of the public to whom you purport to be a servant.

As to the statement that I should work to change the laws. I ask which of the many many thousands should I work to change. Which of the presidential orders, regulatory rules and procedures, congressional mandates, federal laws, state regulatory rules, state and federal tax laws, local regulatory rules, local tax laws, state laws, and local laws should I work to change first. A violation of any one or combination of these could result in someone coming to my door to arrest me. Odds are, I am violating one without even knowing it.

My whole point is that just because the cop down the street is nice guy, gives your kid a ride home from school occasionaly, and seems to treat his wife well does not mean that he is not on the cutting edge of an increasingly oppressive system. It does not mean that he wouldn't participate in a raid on your house and possibly shoot you if ordered to do so. I don't hate all cops individually or necessarily even as a whole. I do, however, have no illusions as to what their true role in society is becoming. My point is that LEOs cannot continue to enforce laws that are unreasonable with the maximum amount of force without expecting to become unpopular. I also ask that LEOs (those that think anyway) to ponder their role in the system and ask themselves if it is something they wish to continue doing.

I really feel sorry for those of you who seem to have such bad experiences with cops.

I'm a prosecutor so I see both the good and the bad work that police do on a daily basis. You all speak of isolated incidents, but how many times a day does a citizen incounter a policeman? From getting a traffic ticket to asking for directions to being arrested for a crime. Hundreds of thousands? Millions?

Sure there are bad cops. From the lazy to the @sshole to those who are the real criminals. I see it. But they are a small, small minority when you look at the big picture. Have some perspective. It's often a [bleep] job and the fact they do it so well so often speaks well of policmen as a whole.

I don't see everyone trying to disband the army for raping girls in Okinawa or the Air Force for killing Canadian troops in Afghanistan. There are bad people in all walks of life and mistakes happen.

My ex-father-in-law was the county sheriff for many years in a very rural area of N Minnesota. Several years ago he was approached by federal law enforcement officers to aid in executing a warrent on a rural farm. It seems that the farmer and his brother in law had been shooting a few timber wolves - listed as "threatened" by the feds. The info had come from a suspect in another case who turned in this guy, who happened to be his uncle, in exchange for immunity. The sheriff was a pretty down to earth guy and told the feds that there was no reason to storm this guy's house. Everyone in the community knew the guy and he was generally well respected - not some scumbag career criminal. The sheriff called the guy at work and asked him to come up to the sheriff's dept. when he got done for the day. He did and was eventually arrested and charged for shooting the wolves(isn't that ridiculous????)... In this case a little sanity in law enforcement saved the man's family the additional trauma of having their house invaded by a bunch of overzealous fools. No, I don't hate law enforcement - I just think that some of these guys have a point when they say that in many cases LE has gotten a bit out of control. Maybe some new laws need to be made to temper the powers of LE. Personally if you invade my home without knocking and I don't know who you are you'd better hope I miss. You see I'm an American who has served his country and defended the rights that I hold dear... Nobody will take them without a fight... If the authories need to talk to me about something they can approach me with the same respect that I give them, which is a significant amount. If they choose not to respect me then I will respond in kind.

JLHEARD

IT IS NOT ABOUT THE GOOD COPS OR BAD COPS! It is about cops and their role in society. First of all, these incidents are hardly isolated, they occur regularly enough that you can count on reading about some monumental blunder or some seemingly needless death on a weekly basis happening somewhere in our country. Secondly, good cops enforcing bad laws is no better than bad cops running amuck in society. Thirdly, as a prosecutor, you should know better, one instance is one instance too many. You would do well to remember that it is better that 100 guilty people go free than 1 innocent person be jailed. Oh yeah, I have been a prosecutor as well. I know all about quotas and being unable to grant deals that you know are fair because your boss prohibits it. I know all about pressure to pursue cases that shouldn't be pursued because someone above has a hardon over a particular issue. I know all about ambitious prosecutors who look for any angle just because they can and never question whether they should. The whole process sickened me. Yes, I know that most of the suspects are guilty, but the whole atmosphere was contrary to what I feel is necessary for a free society to function.

Cops are only part of the problem. They just get the most attention. I am amazed at the level of discourse in this country. It is impossible to have a logical discussion with someone. I fully understand that others may disagree with me, however, all anyone has responded with is that cops are good people, I must have something to hide, I must have had a bad experience with cops, I must be a loser, cops do great things for many people, etc.. Address the issue, do cops use excessive force unnecessarily at times, is it excusable, are there too many laws, are they oppressive, does the fact that many cops do a great many good things excuse the things that bad ones do or the bad things done by good ones, what is the role of the police in our society today, how has it changed historically. These are the issues. How about a little reasonable and logical discussion.


"Those that expect to remain ignorant and free, are expecting something that has never been and never will be". Thomas Jefferson

I would add that when intelligent discourse is gone or that people are unable to take an issue and evaluate the merits of different viewpoints or issues, then we are in trouble. Most of us realize instinctively that we already are in trouble. We just have different opinions as to why.

You ask for "reasonable and logical discussion" after starting this thread with references to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union? Why didn't ya throw Nanjing in there while you were at it?

You're clueless. If you want a decent discussion find a stand-in first or get a handle on your runaway sense of perspective.

Mistakes can amount to a tragedy, but mistakes we will have regardless. Your elitest ("It is impossible to have a logical discussion with someone.") drivel makes no points with me. Calling people stupid because they don't agree with your utopian slop is something must of us quit in junior high.

Joe: I will try to answer "the issues" you raised. My own personal viewpoints, of course.

"Do Cops use excessive force unnessecarily at times?"
Sure. At times they do. Haven't seen a thing that was perfect this side of heaven in my life time yet.
Now, to be a little less smartass-like and more specific: It depends on the specific departments rules and regulations. The cops are there to enforce the law, not to pussyfoot around. This is especially true in large metropolitan areas that see a lot of crime. The cop has a job to do, and he needs to go home at the end of his shift. He should respond with at least one level of force above that of his opponent. Personnally, I have not been yanked out of a vehicle for running a stop sign yet. However, if I was speeding 50mph over limit and eluding arrest, I would just about expect to get shot. Reasonably so, if I was endangering people. Joe, just once, try to be in their shoes: With all the crime and human filth out there, you got to be careful and anticipate violence against you. Yet, you must meet PC guidelines to keep your job. It ain't fair,is it? I have never had a problem with cops. My wife, OTOH, cannot stand them, because of a few minor bad experiences. I still feel they are out to protect YOU and ME. I do not rely on them to do that. Not because I don't trust them, but protecting myself and my family is my job, nobody else's. Same with providing income and food on the table. Small government, not big..... I do appreciate the police, though.

"Is it excusable?" Sometimes. Sometimes not. It just depends. See my answer to your previous question.
In short, I refuse to believe that all cops, or even a majority, is an elite cast of @sshole weekend warriors out to get the common folk.

"Are there too many laws?"
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Go beat up a cop to change that.
Seriously, whaddaya gonna do about that? I don't buy the argument that you and me can change something about that. That's just the way it goes. To my limited knowledge, there has never been a government that over time has simplified its legal code, gone back to the roots. Generally, nations and governments get more and more convoluted, complicated, perverted all the time. It would behoove anybody doubting me to look at Rome, the Greek Empire, today's European States, Russia, and finally, this country of ours. The end is inevitable, my friend.
This country is the greatest country on God's green earth, but it ain't eternal. Take a look at the Good Book and you'll find that in the end, there are no great countries. It will all end.
I am not promoting passivity and complacency. Do whatever you can, speak your mind, bear good witness for what you believe. You can slow things down, make things right for you and your community. But don't kid yourself into believing that you can change the final outcome.

"Are they oppressive?" You bet. All to protect you. However, not the entire volume of CFR is oppressing you personally. Ain't nuttin perfect, is there?

"Does the fact that many cops do a great many good things excuse the things that bad ones do or the bad things done by good ones?" Nope. Absolutely not. And yet, that's the way things go. Nothing excuses the truly bad actions of individuals. Just don't judge the entire force based on those actions of those individuals. Don't fall into that trap.

"What is the role of the police in our society today, how has it changed historically?"
Protect, serve, enforce. I really do believe that, so don't laugh at me. The police force is meant to offer the citizens of this great US community some common protection which they pay for with taxes. You gotta have some order in the pigsty, otherwise things will fall apart.
In the distant past of this country, there used to be a thing called personal responsibility, and independence. People nowadays RELY heavily on the police. Which is partly due to that responsibility thing. Also, a lot more people these days. See, in the old days, the men were men, brave frontiersmen that could handle things themselves. Today....well, you know what I mean. That's just the way things go.

JOG

Why the personal attacks? I have not attacked anyone personally. I am not elitist. I am about as far away from an elitist as someone can be. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are merely examples of police authority taken to its highest extent.

Mistakes will happen, true. Try making a significant mistake on your tax return and telling the IRS that, "whoops, mistakes happen". Accidentaly run a red light and kill someone and tell the prosecutor, "whoops, mistakes happen". The point is, LEOs make mistakes with tragic consequences and nothing happens to them, or at least nothing like would happen to the average citizen. The point is, what is being done to make sure these mistakes don't happen again? Are steps being taken to lower the risks? It doesn't appear to me that they are.

I refer to the Nazis because they are the ultimate example of where the "just following orders or the law" will get you. I do not say todays LEOs are like the Nazis. But then again, I really don't think that the vast majority of Nazis were evil people as we seem to truly think they were. The lesson that they can teach us is that otherwise good people can do terrible things when they are part of a system that dehumanizes its victims. The average Nazi was guilty of not questioning his role or acting upon his questions in the whole scheme. The point is, it can happen here or anywhere where people don't constantly question and evaluate their society and their role in it.

Now, I don't ask that you agree with me. Merely provide me with reasons to disagree beyond the fact that I am elitist scum or that my reasoning is something that you, the "realist", left behind in junior high. Also, I see that you are from Minnesota. I've found that you Yankees are more apt to go along with government coercion or use it against others. People where I'm from know all about the "good government" you people brought us. There is a personal attack for you.

Joe, I agree with you that there need to be consequences for mistakes.
However, what kind of mistake are we talking here? If it is cops breaking down the wrong door during a drug raid, who will you punish? Do an investigation to determine WHO screwed it up. Who got the door wrong, the guy in the field, or the planner? Disciplinary action is in order. An honest mistake while doing your job to protect the public does not deserve public crucifixion.