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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by 458Win
I do remember once asking Dave Scovill , when he was still editing Wolfe Publishing, about Gary and his comment was something to the effect that he personally had finally got rid of him !

Although one of Dave’s favorite evening pastimes seemed to be bragging about all the writers he had fired !


Doesn't sound like Scovill was a very nice guy

He could be--though not always.

But he was one of the major reasons Handloader and Rifle became so successful. They were started by Dave Wolfe in the 1970s. He made his major money elsewhere, apparently in aviation, and the magazines allowed him to write off his firearms expenses for tax purposes. Their paid circulation never exceeded around 10,000 copies a year (which ain't much) until he sold the magazines to the art director, Mark Harris, who hired Scovill as editor. (Dave had been writing articles for them for a few years, mostly on cast bullets and handguns.)

Up until then they paid very little, and in fact probably half the articles were written by readers. At the time they had color covers, but all article photos were black and white. Scovill persuaded Harris to run color photos inside the magazine, and pay more for articles, in order to attract better writers. Which was when I started writing for them, along with others, including Phil. This attracted far more readers, and circulation and advertising both increased considerably--in large part thanks to Dave.

But he always did have a high opinion of himself, to the point where he and Mark had some serious talks about who exactly ran the company. But between Dave's ideas and Mark's backing of many, they became much larger and more profitable magazines.

That sort of "balance" often occurs in the publishing business--and other businesses. When it works, it works--regardless of whether the people are always "nice guys."


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I began reading gun articles in all the gun magazines in about 1962, long before Gary Sitton's work appeared in any of the publications. I remember some of his articles as being good ones, but whether he'd be in the same league as gunwriters like Bob Hagel, Ken Waters, and a select few others, I don't know. Perhaps I lack the insight that others here have. I don't remember how long his gunwriting career lasted.

As for the Scovill comments, in addition to what Mule Deer wrote, I think it's important to remember that Scovill was editor for around twenty years, so he was probably doing much that was right for the business despite the alleged expert critics proclaiming otherwise. He improved on what his predecessors did with the publications, though Al Miller did a pretty outstanding job. I won't comment on his follower as apparently many here still read the magazines and they're up on this sort of thing and have their own opinions on the matter.

Dave Scovill wasn't a perfect person, sort of like many of us here, but he had enough of whatever it takes to survive well in a difficult business. He was very open to article suggestions from unknown sources and free with his time to the inquisitive (yes, he was a talker). If you needed suggestions, he was helpful. He didn't get in your way with publishing policies and trivialities and 99% of the time published articles exactly as they were submitted to him. Scovill was largely a great asset to Wolfe Publishing.

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I don't think Gary's big strength was gun writing, but story-telling. He knew considerable stuff about hunting firearms, but wasn't the most technically oriented writer. As a matter of fact, one of the reasons I worked out my 4-to-1 Rule for how much powder capacity affects velocity in different cases for the same bullet diameter was due to an article he did on a new .35 Whelen Ackley Improved he'd acquired.

He assumed that any increase in powder room, as in "blowing out" the .35 Whelen would result in the percentage of increase in muzzle velocity. It doesn't work that way, and the easy example I often give is the .308 Winchester and the the .300 Remington Ultra Magnum--which has just about twice as much powder room as the .308. But the .300 RUM does NOT get twice as much velocity. If it did, 180-grain bullets would be going over 5000 fps. Instead its gets just about 1/4 more velocity.

But that's OK, because Gary also wrote plenty of "articles" about hunting guns that were very good stories....


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Gary Sitton was indeed an excellent story teller. He, Skeeter and a very few others have/had the knack for getting in a gunner's heart as well as his head.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I don't think Gary's big strength was gun writing, but story-telling. He knew considerable stuff about hunting firearms, but wasn't the most technically oriented writer. As a matter of fact, one of the reasons I worked out my 4-to-1 Rule for how much powder capacity affects velocity in different cases for the same bullet diameter was due to an article he did on a new .35 Whelen Ackley Improved he'd acquired.

He assumed that any increase in powder room, as in "blowing out" the .35 Whelen would result in the percentage of increase in muzzle velocity. It doesn't work that way, and the easy example I often give is the .308 Winchester and the the .300 Remington Ultra Magnum--which has just about twice as much powder room as the .308. But the .300 RUM does NOT get twice as much velocity. If it did, 180-grain bullets would be going over 5000 fps. Instead its gets just about 1/4 more velocity.

But that's OK, because Gary also wrote plenty of "articles" about hunting guns that were very good stories....

I've found the 4-to-1 Rule very helpful.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by 260Remguy
When we were growing up, JOC's work was more hunting oriented than technically oriented, while, IIRC, Warren Paige's work was significantly more technically oriented than hunting oriented. JOC was the primary shooting sports writer at Outdoor Life and WP was the primary shooting sports writer at Field & Stream. I liked JOC, while my Father, being more technically oriented, preferred WP. Neither of us were fans of John Jobson at Sports Afield, but I can't remember exactly why, maybe just because 2 magazine subscriptions was felt to be enough.

John Jobson was NOT the shooting/hunting columnist at Sports Afield. Instead he was the camping columnist, back when each of the so-called Big Three outdoor magazines--Field & Stream, Outdoor Life and Sports Afield--all had camping columns, along with fishing, boating, etc. This was before the so-called "vertical" magazines started appearing which specialized in certain subjects. Handloader and Rifle were a couple of examples, but for a while there was also a magazine totally devoted to crappie fishing, believe it or not.

I liked John Jobson's firearms and hunting stuff a lot--and never could understand why he wasn't the "shooting" columnist at SA. The guy who was in those years, Pete Brown, had a lot of technical knowledge--much of it acquired during his military career--but his writing was flat and boring. I suspect Jobson might not have wanted to be the shooting columnist, because a lot of what SA ran back then, via Brown, was results of major competitive shotgun events. (Plus, I don't recall anything by Jobson about shotgunning or bird-hunting.) Which was part of the reason SA was a rather distant 3rd place in circulation behind F&S and OL.


Based on the correspondence he had with Jack O'Connor (and some comments by O'Connor in "The Last Book") John Jobson seemed to be a mercurial sort who wrote when he felt like it and wasn't overly concerned with deadlines. Probably drove his editors up the wall.

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Jobson also had diabetes, which tends to result in "mercurial" behavior.

In one of my copies of Hunting Horizons, the 5th edition published in 1993, Sitton was listed as "Executive Editor," underneath Scovill as "Editor." This pretty much means that Gary was hired due to Scovill being over-worked at the time, when the company was rapidly growing.

My one experience with Gary as an editor was when, as mentioned in a previous post, bought my first article for Petersen's Hunting. But as also mentioned by somebody in the link I posted, he wasn't very responsive as an editor: "As an editor he was the worst procrastinator I ever knew, but as a writer he was the greatest talent this business has ever seen. He would almost never write his editorial until the absolute-last minute. Then, after a martini-fortified lunch, he'd lock himself in his office for a couple of hours and come out with something consistently brilliant."

I'd sent Sitton what's known as "query letter," proposing an article. When I didn't get a response within six weeks, I wrote him again--which is what my major mentor in the business, Norm Strung, suggested. (Norm was a very successful writer, both with magazines and books.)

As I recall, Gary's response was that his first obligation was to take care of the staff writers--though he did eventually assign me the article. This was back when probably 3/4 of the content of most hunting/shooting magazines was supplied by freelancers, rather than staffers--which is the opposite of today. In fact some magazines only use staff writers, which does reduce the editor's work-load.

So my guess is that Gary didn't really lean into editing Hunting Horizons as much as Scovill (and Mark Harris) desired.


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I really enjoyed Gary's writing. Maybe because I like a good story as much as anything. To me, I'm n many ways, a good story I'd what hunting is about. I grew up listening to stories in deer camp and reading stories in mags.

I'm diabetic so maybe I'm "mercurial".....need to find my dictionary.

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Rickshaw,

My father got Type 1 diabetes when he was 11 years old, only five years after insulin was first synthesized. Otherwise he wouldn't have survived.

I grew up in the 1950s and 60s, when controlling diabetes wasn't nearly as sophisticated as it is today--or in John Jobson's time. Which is how I know the highs and lows in blood sugar can alter somebody's mood, sometimes within a few hours.

He and my mother had four kids, two of which eventually became Type 1 diabetics as well, my brother (two years younger) and my sister born a year after him. She passed away four years ago at 62, partly from complications. Oh, and my father's brother Larry also developed Type 1 diabetes in his early 60s.

Luckily, neither I or my youngest sister have ever shown any sign of it--so far.


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Hey JB, you are very right about how blood sugar can affect someone.

It's pretty much a constant struggle, though we are blessed with today's technology and understanding.

Diabetic or not, I like a good story. They may not pay in today's market, but they sure stick over time.

I appreciate the stories you have published. Been blessed to be there with you in spirit.

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Thanks!


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Jb, Your observations about Diabetes are so true !! I have walked on that knife's edge for many years, having been "set right" by a wise doctor in the early years. I've seen what happened to family members that were careless & your description of "mood swings" are correct !!


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My father was particularly prone to mood swings, and not only because diabetes couldn't be controlled then as it is today, but because back then many doctors didn't advise diabetics very well. Instead they often told them they might as well eat, drink, etc. like they wanted, because they weren't going to live very long anyway.

In fact our family doctor when I was kid essentially said this, so my father didn't take very good care of himself, including being a heavy cigarette smoker. But back then a lot of people were. In fact our doctor smoked--until the 1964 surgeon general's report appeared, when he quit cold-turkey.

My father quit cold-turkey after his first heart attack at age 40, and also watched his diet far better, losing a bunch of weight. But by then it was too late, and he died from his second heart attack four years later. My brother has been a lot better about his diet, and is doing pretty well at 68.


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JB - Sorry to hear you lost your father at such a young age.

Diabetes is a hideous disease, but thankfully modern medicine can do wonders for those who are diagnosed early, are treated well, and compliant.

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I lost my dad to a heart attack when I was 27.It left a large hole. Thanks to a wise doctor's prescriptions, I'm 10 years older than my dad was and my youngest son is 37. I have known my grandchildren .


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65BR,

Thanks for your condolence. It happened a month before my 17th birthday--but I had already left home, becoming a ranch hand, partly due to his mood swings. But also already wanted to be a writer, and knew that experiencing the world was a requirement.

But he was an English and history professor, and like many such professors also did some writing on the side. I wanted to do it for a living, not part time. Often wonder what he would have thought about how things turned out--and even now, occasionally even have dreams where we've talked about it!

But I was also lucky in that his older brother, Larry, was also an English professor, and published a couple of highly regarded books. He lived 150 miles away, and also became a great mentor. It always helps to have that sort of extended family....


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Originally Posted by downwindtracker2
I lost my dad to a heart attack when I was 27.It left a large hole. Thanks to a wise doctor's prescriptions, I'm 10 years older than my dad was and my youngest son is 37. I have known my grandchildren .

Sorry to hear that--but glad you know your grandchildren!

The death of a parent always leaves a large hole. My mother outlived my father by 44 years, passing away at 88 in 2012.

Have mentioned this before, but there was a large memorial service in Boise, where they moved in 1968, a year before he died. One of the many people who attended was Brian Pierce, my fellow gun writer and friend. Among the other things he said was, "We never really grow up until both are parents are gone."


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The memory of parents inevitably affects all of us. My mother died when I was 4 (she was only 36) and my father died the year I returned from Vietnam and was 22. He was only 54 but had been a heavy smoker his entire life and was a type A worrier , although a patient and devoted father.
My goal is to outlive the two of them .

I also wanted to reiterate what Mule Deer had written about Scovill. As editor Dave did a commendable job and well earned his retirement. He is an intelligent man and, like so many in the industry, also has an outsized ego.
But, as a former Navel officer, he didn’t suffer fools and was certainly not in the industry to make friends.


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Originally Posted by JeffyD
I was a big fan of Jobson's monthly camping articles back in the late 1960's-early 70's when I was a kid, especially an article about the Whelen lean-to tent.
I couldn't afford one, but did improvise one by rigging up a tarp and building a fire in front of it to warm it during my fall/ winter camping "adventures".
That was real camping to me back then.

Works just as well today as it did 100 years ago. Summer backpacking trip - no fire but, check out the spruce bow bed, luxurious.
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I did a little Googling and found this collection of comments about Gary from various people who knew him:

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Gary+Sitton%3A+1944-2005.-a0141170872

I found the comment on his being a magazine editor interesting, because he was the editor of Petersen's Hunting when I sold my first article to the magazine in 1977.

Don't know why the link posted doesn't work just by clicking on it--but it does if you copy and paste it.

A link worth repeating.

Gary Sitton: 1944-2005. - www.thefreelibrary.com

Thanks for posting it Mule Deer. Good thread.

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