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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21 |
I have tried using 8X in the west;and they work well. But I have been using 10X for so many years that I find the extra magnification useful for me.Rick and others are right when it comes to issues of shake and movement with the 10X but I just get a sold rest and have at it.
I'd be happy to hunt with either but given a choice I will take 10X. Personal thing. ...same for me. 10x is the only way to go in open country where I hunt.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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from what I have seen on this thread if you drink coffee you prefer 8x if you dont then 10x is the way to go, mabey caffeine and glassing dont mix too well. I still think 10x is the way to go in open country.
B
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
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I've been running my 7x42 SLC's since they first hit our markets. I've used em from Alaska to Sonora and have never wanted for anything else.
All eyes are different but for me I really like the 7's and the 8's and the 42's. If I need more gas, then to me I want a lot more (like my 15's on a tripod or a good spotter).
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Ditto what Steelhead said about glassing from boats. On my hunts in southeast Alaska,I had an opportunity to use a lot of high end glass of 7,8 and 10 power;and much glassing was from boats.There, 10x's were put down pretty quickly and I found(for me) the best choice(given the constant dim light and overcast conditions,and the unsteady glassing platform) was a high quality 7x40 or 42. I actually found that even 8X was too much,and 8x30's were not so hot either.For me,the 7x42's were the best balance.Getting one power of binocular to do everything is like having one political party...good in theory but a bit naive in reality.
But this is different hunting from what is done in much of the west. The notion that 10x's are only bought by "inexperienced hunters" who only believe bigger is better is the silliest thing I ever heard. I number among my friends(hunt with them every year) some very experienced mule deer and elk hunters who have lived in mule deer and elk country their whole lives, and have killed more mule deer and elk than many who post on here have ever even seen; to a man they use 10x's, mostly Swarovski,with some Zeiss and Leica's thrown in.The idea that these guys are "inexperienced" is absolutely laughable.
Much the same could be said for 8X's in the hands of others. I would rely for about 5 seconds on what some sales man tells me about what binocular to use.If you need a salesman's advice about what bino to use for something,you have not spent much time behind binoculars....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm with Bob on this one, there are surely many times that 8x is the ticket, and I have them, but when it comes to my trips out west or to the alaskan tundra I will almost always use my leica 10x42 ultravids.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
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Prolly should have said the inexperienced and the REALLY experienced....<grin>
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
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In my hands 10x is too shakey for general glassing all day long. But have you ever been with a guide or buddy and he could discern more about a trophy rack than you could? If so, he may have been using 10x. I have had this very experience so now I carry one bino in my pack and one around my neck depending on what I am using the binocular for.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Skane: I like your avatar...... 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,312 Likes: 4 |
OF the two, I'd go with the 8x42. Were it me doing the picking I'd go 7x42... I used my little 7x30 SLC's for a long time glassing out on the Big Open and never had a desire for more... if more is needed a lot more than 10X will be required, in which case out comes the spotter. The 7x42 has fewer glass elements than both the 8x42 and 10x42, a larger exit pupil and is less apt to shake... a quality 7x42 is like looking through a picture window. For strain-free glassing, absolutely nothing beats them.
I have absolutely no use for a 10x42. YMMV of course.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
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Where I hunt I can sometimes walk all day and not see a tree - wide open spaces. I have owned 10x42's and 10X43's - I now own an 8X32 and 6X30 all others have been sold. If I need more power than the 8X, the spotter comes out.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Well after reading all the posts looks like 8x is the favorite, but as recommended your eyes will tell you. I have both and use them in diferent situations, but when I am trying to disect a huge field of CRP in North Dakota I use the 10x, I have a platform on top of my hunting van where I sit in a lawnchair along the dirt road, trying to pick out antler tips in the waving grass, the 10x works best. Let us know what you choose
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What do you use your bino's for? To spot game or to evaluate game you've already spotted? Surprisingly many folk don't use their bino's to spot much at all (and I'm not criticizing anybody's technique, I'm just relaying my own experiences). These folks see "something" with their naked eye and use their bino's to determine what it is. Or they see a critter with the naked eye and use the bino's to evaluate if it has horns--or how big of horns.
If you use them to "evaluate" and not to "spot" then 10x would be fine if that's the route you want to go. You're the person who has to pay for them and use them. (And just so my personal bias is known, I own one binocular, a Leica Trinovid 8x32BA, and currently have no plans to buy anything else).
Wade
"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
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I would rely for about 5 seconds on what some sales man tells me about what binocular to use.If you need a salesman's advice about what bino to use for something,you have not spent much time behind binoculars....
Well that was admitted from the start. Thanks for the input. Somebody advised a lightweight tripod along with 10X's for backpack hunting, I never thought of that option. I emailed Doug for his opinion and he was of the opinion that much of the difference in clarity was do to the ability to hold 8X's more steadily that 10X's more so than any difference in the glass. The one thing that has me confused is that most of the 8X weigh a tad more than the 10X, so why are they harder to hold steady? I guess you really don't, but it appears you do at less magnification? When so much of the experience on the boards differs, I don't think there is a right answer at this point, it tells me rather it is a personal prefrence I need to get figured out by trial and error. Thank again for everyone's input.
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Campfire Regular
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Hey I live in the west, have my whole life and hunted a lot of mule deer, elk, antelope and whitetail. All I have ever used was a 7x35 Leitz, a 7x50 Fujinon and for the last 12 years an 8x42 Pentax DCF, so I wanted to open myself to the possibilty of using ten power. Just because I have always used lower power bins doesn't mean I'm close minded. I asked that salesman who I trust and opened a similar thread here because I was going to be spending a huge amount (for me at least), and I wanted to get a lot of opinions. My closest hunting buddy loves his 10x42 SLCs, but he's the only buddy amongst my small group that uses ten power, so I was considering them. Also this particular salesman is a serious hunter, with a lifetime of hunting here in Montana, so his opinion is valad to me.
I didn't mean to imply that anybody who prefers ten power, does so because he is inexperienced, clearly my buddy who was born and raised on a ranch in SW Montana isn't inexperienced. That statement was made by the salesman to explain the huge disparity between national sales figures which show ten power beating eight power 4:1. Just compare that figure to this informal poll of people here, who I would assume are way above national average in experience and expertice. Personally I ended up with both 8 and 10 power, as I have caught the optics bug, so the jury is still out with me. Sorry I offended, didn't mean to.
John
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
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I'm getting confuse regarding "the shakes" Are the shakes attributed to the weight of the glasses or the optics?
With the Leicas the 8X are actually a tad heavier than the 10X, why would you be able to hold the 8X's any steadier?
Thanks again.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I think in general the heavier the binocs package is, the steadier they will be to hold, like shooting a super light rifle versus a heavier one. But if the binocs got super heavy, say 40-50 oz, then they would be hard to hold steady due to muscle fatigue. If you had two pair of bins, one eight and the other ten, and they both weighed the same, they would shake exactly the same, but the ten would magnify the shake more, due to the extra magnification. Thats why most people recommend a tripod for 12 power and higher.
There are methods of hand holding bins steady that should help you use 10s, read the baseball cap thread for one of them, also some people put tension on their strap to help steady the bins. the other issue of 10 versus 8 or 7, is field of view; in general as you go with more power your field of view shrinks. Everybody is different on what they like in FOV, some guys really like big and wide, while others don't care.
I think what Doug was alluding to is the difference between a high end alpha bin at 8 power versus a low to mid pair at 10 power, the eight might beat the 10 in resolution due to higher quality optics. But when comparing 8 power Swaros to 10 power Swaros, that's the heat of this debate. Also I wouldn't think you would need a tripod for 10x42s, maybe 12x50s and for sure anything above that. Don't forget you can set them on your pack to steady them, sit down with your elbows on your knees, ect.
Last edited by Glacier_John; 05/13/08.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
Both. Essentially, the more the magnification, the more the image shake simply because the magnification magnifies it.
Weight simply slows it down so that the eye can follow it more easily. I understand that a larger exit pupil size helps here too. An 8X40 mm binocular has an exit pupil of 5mm compared to a 10X40 with a 4mm exit pupil. Doesn't seem like much until you realize that a 5mm exit pupil has about 55% more area for the eye to roam around in, so to speak, of the image presented to it.
Barsness says he much prefers the 50mm size 10X over the standard 40/43mm sizes. With a 50mm binocular, you get both more weight and a larger exit pupil size to make things easier to look at and see. E
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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While Eremicus and I have had a difference of opinion on somethings, his advise here mirror's my experiences with regard to bino selection. A heaver bino does aid to holdind a bino steadier, and that accompanied by using a lower magnification makes your glassing much more effective. I think the general theme here from what folks have stated thus far is that some simply can hold a X effectively. But, from my own experiences and that of the majority of users, will find that the 8x offers a steadier platform. This is probably best seen when trying to focus a bino in lower light than during daylight observations. As mentioned in prior posts, the 8x's also offer a much better FOV which I find to be a big bonus as well. I had a nice pair of Bushnell Discoverer's in a 10x42 configuration and while they were a very good bino, I finally sold for the reasons already discussed. As Steelhead mentioned, he prefers a 7x bino which probably is the best for lowlight glassing. In closing, I think that the folks opting for the 10x's simply have the ability to hold a 10x steadily enough that image shake is not an issue. I will just add, and was mentioned by Eremicus and others. A heavier bino is an important asset for holding a bino steadily. Perhaps, if you have the ability to use some of the bino's you are considering you may find that holding a 10x might not be an issue for you as well. As far as the ability to find more game as well, the 10x doesn't really offer a significant enough advantage over the 7x and 8x's. Resolution is the most important factor in effective glassing.
Roy
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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While Eremicus and I have had a difference of opinion on somethings, his advise here mirror's my experiences with regard to bino selection. A heaver bino does aid to holdind a bino steadier, and that accompanied by using a lower magnification makes your glassing much more effective. I think the general theme here from what folks have stated thus far is that some simply can hold a X effectively. But, from my own experiences and that of the majority of users, will find that the 8x offers a steadier platform. This is probably best seen when trying to focus a bino in lower light than during daylight observations. As mentioned in prior posts, the 8x's also offer a much better FOV which I find to be a big bonus as well. I had a nice pair of Bushnell Discoverer's in a 10x42 configuration and while they were a very good bino, I finally sold for the reasons already discussed. As Steelhead mentioned, he prefers a 7x bino which probably is the best for lowlight glassing. In closing, I think that the folks opting for the 10x's simply have the ability to hold a 10x steadily enough that image shake is not an issue. I will just add, and was mentioned by Eremicus and others. A heavier bino is an important asset for holding a bino steadily. Perhaps, if you have the ability to use some of the bino's you are considering you may find that holding a 10x might not be an issue for you as well. As far as the ability to find more game as well, the 10x doesn't really offer a significant enough advantage over the 7x and 8x's. Resolution is the most important factor in effective glassing.
Roy Thanks for that. The trouble I'm finding is that nobody in this area seems to carry high end binocs, opting for a wide array of more affordable brands. I had hoped to get a look through the 8X & 10X Leicas to aid in my decision but doesn't look as if that might happen. I went out today and looked through my 10X mid range Nikons and sure enough I do have a little shake when glassing freehand. I'm reading where almost all birders seem to opt with the 8X but then again I would bet they are usually closer to their intended target. Tough decision, I wish I could get me hands on a couple of pairs.
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Campfire Regular
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I hear where you are coming from and can say I have been there and done that. Buy yourself a class A bin from any of the big 3 (Zeiss, Swaro & Leica) in a 7x42 or 8x42 and you'll have it covered no matter the situation. You will look through them and I'll bet your first reaction will be WOW or HOLY CRAP. If your wife complains about the cost, just show her what they look like and she'll also say HOLY CRAP and will never complain again. Better yet, buy her a set too. I saw an email yesterday that said Camera Land has some Zeiss show demos on special and perhaps there you will find some good buys that satisfy your requirements. One that caught my eye was a Zeiss Victory T*FL 7x42mm for $999. That is the bin I have and they are nothing short of astounding to look through. That price is astoundingly low too! A similar Leica or even a Swaro will give like results. You won't regret it but I suspect you will regret buying cheap bins. That is what I did,...twice. I learned...slowly.  All the best. John
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