Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 416 Rem Mag vs 416 Rigby?

Just kicking the tires a bit, but would the Rigby produce more recoil in the same rifle with the same bullet and velocity due to burning more powder, or would the Rem Mag feel like it kicked worse due to higher pressure curve? Or does is there any difference at all? I handload so cost of ammo would not be a factor in my selection.
If I ever got to fulfill the dream of hunting Africa for large game, would I be better off with the Rigby due to availability of ammo in a crunch? I know the Rigby was designed to run at lower pressures for Africa and the potential for high temperatures.
Thanks in advance.

50 years from now, the Rigby will still be around. I doubt very much that can be said for the other calibers.

No expert here, so take this for what it's worth...

A 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps from either will feel pretty much the same. I believe your presumption that the Rigby with more powder will recoil more is technically correct, but I would bet that we are talking less than a few percent difference and your shoulder will never be able to tell. Now, you can reload the Rigby and load it hotter than the Remington and to higher velocity if you so desire, but I believe very few people do so because you don't need more than 2400 fps with a 400 grain bullet and who wants to deal with more recoil than you have to? 2400 fps is more than sufficient for any dangerous game you'll face. I suppose a 350 grain bullet at 2700 fps or more would give you a darn flat shooting, hard hitting round. Bottom line for me, though, is you can have more with the Rigby but you don't really need it and you'll pay for it in increased recoil.

Now, as far as Rigby ammo being more available, especially in Africa, it wasn't in my experience. Unless you're in RSA or Namibia, you'll be lucky to find 308, 30-06, and 375 H&H, let alone 416 Rigby. My PH in Zim used a 416 Rem and said Rigby ammo was virtually unobtainable. I suppose other areas where there is a lot of DG hunting done, it may be different. My PH with the 416 Rem had about 20 rounds of all different types of Factory ammo that he had accumulated over the years from other hunters and whoever he could trade and said buying .416 Rem ammo was pretty much the same deal as the Rigby. I left him my handloads and hope he's putting them to good use. Bottom line for me in this instance is if you carry a .416 anything don't plan on finding spare ammo over in Africa. Some places in AK I have seen 416 Rigby available, but in those shops where I saw the Rigby ammo, there was also .416 Rem. available.

By the way, in case it isn't obvious, I use the .416 Rem. Factory ammo for that is atrocious, but the price of Rigby ammo is out of this world! Thus, I've never fired a factory round in my rifle in over 5 years of owning it. I hope this information helps you out.
Test

this gets kicked around a lot, well 2-3 times a year at least!

IME, the recoil between the two is not that different.

I like the Rigby, primarily due to lower operating pressures and longer case life.

I personally prefer the .416 Remington or my new Mauser in 416 Ruger because they are lighter and less bulky and I have to pack them around in Africa heat for 10 to 15 miles as day..It takes a magnum plus action for the Rigby and if I have to pack around that kind of bulk and weight then I want a 500 Jefferys or 505 Gibbs. At the end of a hard track, the lighter guns sure make my old bones feel better.

As to the calibers they are equal in all respects as loaded today, but you can load the 416 Rigby with a 400 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS or even more, I have some friends that load it to 2900 FPS and yes the recoil at either is horrendous IMO..The Rigby is basically a 416 Weatherby with the belt removed..As to killing power the difference between 2400 FPS of the .416 Rem and the 2700 FPS of the Rigby is nil., at least on Cape Buffalo and elephant. The extra velocity might have more effect on Lion as they react to high velocity more so than the big undulants, Like whitetail deer, the lion is a high strung animal and velocity effects them greatly IMO...

This is pretty much a worn out subject and you will get a lot of opinnions on it from those who have used it and those who have read to many hunting books!

Bottom line is what are your wants, where do you stand on weight and bulk; nostalgia that goes with the .416 Rigby; both important issues with some of us..both are excellent rifles and its just your choice.

Thank you gentlemen for those outstanding posts! I especially liked albertan's post. By far the fewest words but it spoke volumes.

Everything you said is true about the hi vel dear loads. My friend is a fanatic dear hunter and his partners .257 weatherby seems to just turn the lights out on deer. On a lighter note the weatherby is a rigby with a belt not the other way around. I load mine with 350 TSX works great shoots flat. Regards dan

I prefer the Rigby. Lower pressure and longer brass life are important to me, especially as I reload (you have to at Rigby prices) and I only have the Rigby for hunting in Africa (well, primarily). Plus the Rigby has some history and cachet that the Remington lacks. The 416 Rigby is the real 416, the others amount to Johnny-come-latelys and interlopers.

A fitting term, indeed..

I haven't touched my .416 Rem yet.. Not sure I want to..

Lot of old repeating reasoning between the Rigby and the Rem. I have used both and see no difference in brass life, pressure is not a problem with either the Rigby or the Rem..Pressue is from putting too much powder in either one of them and since both will have more than enough velocity, why do folks have to stroke them, all that does is make for poor bullet performance on game..The Rigby is bulky and heavy and hard to pack on a 15 mile walk in the African heat as compared to the trim sleek and light .416 Rem or better yet the new .416 Ruger. If you have to pack a big bulky rifle in that stuff, why not use that big action for a real gun like the 500 Jefferys or 505 Gibbs.

Albertan,
So what do you base that statement on other than opinnion, do you really believe the 416 Rigby will be around in 50 years and the 416 Rem won't? I'd like to make a bet on that one except I won't be around to collect, short of a mircle! I suspect all the .416 will be around unless the politicians take them all away from us..

In all honesty the .416 Rigby has survived by nostalgia and that is the only reason, but its a good one and that is my only reason for being such a 404 Jefferys fan.

Just some food for thought, and each of us must make our own decisions, and they don't all have to be the same..I made mine by using both calibers and that experience lead me to my decision, others who are younger and tougher may come to another opinnion, and thats fine.

I'm a Rigby sorta guy.

Get the 416 Remington, unless you are hooked on nostalgic nonsense.

Get both, relax and enjoy!

In a 9 pound rifle, the Remington version will result in 60 ft lbs of recoil energy at 20 fps with a 400 gr slug going 2400 fps and a nominal powder charge of 75 gr.

To get the same slug going the same speed in the Rigby version, will require about 99 gr of powder, and the numbers read 71.5 ft lbs of recoil energy traveling 22.6 fps.

I'm guessing you could tell the difference in a 9 pound rifle. Not quite a 20% increase in recoil is pretty substantial, IMHO.

The above figures are assuming the rifle weighs the same for both cartridges.

I agree with the shootist as those numbers are correct, but who would want either in a 9 lb rifle? My Cz550 in 458 Win weighs 9.3 lbs off the rack, but by the time I added Warne quick-detach mounts, a Burris light fixed 4X scope, a nylon sling and 4 cartridges the weight is 10.6 lbs! Very manageable and excellent for offhand shooting!

Mr. Atkinson,

Yes, I really do believe Remington will wash their hands of a very fine cartridge, like they have so many times before. The Rigby has been a favorite cartridge of some of our most famous writers and sportsmen. The Remington version hasn't had a whole lotta ink spilled on it. With the Weatherby, the Lazzeroni(?), the Remington , now the Ruger, and others that I'm sure to have missed, the Rigby will still be here in 50 years. How many of the upstarts will survive? I doubt all of them. Judging by Remington's track record, not the Remington. Good cartridge though it is.

CZ550,

Just used a 9 pound rifle as a base line. I figured most decent rifles for a big bore like that would weigh at least that much. If I had one, it would weigh closer to what you're talking about, or maybe a tad more . . . . . I'm big enough to pack the brute, just don't want to get swatted.

I have a Rigby, and I like the idear of being able to load it flat out to 2700+ or back it right down to 2300 fps with 400 grain bullets. I have also been playing with some barnes 300 grain X bullets and have hit 3000 fps with them, which would not be doable in the .416 Remington.

My rifle comes in at a shade over 10 lbs with scope and full mag, and while the recoil is there its not out of this world even with full power loads. My advice is no matter what cartridge you get shoot it lots to get used to it.

Steve

Steve

The bigger case will always outrun the smaller ... but is it needed? I'd prefer the 416Rem as it can be built in a trimmer rifle, better yet the 416Ruger when it emerges as it'll fit an even trimmer rifle. There's nothing that can't be done with a 400gr at 2300fps and a 300gr at 2600fps ... easily achievable numbers in a 416Rem.
Cheers...
Con

Remington, Weatherby, Dakota, Rigby, Ruger, the 500\416, the Lazzeroni. How many of these do you think will survive? I think I will not try to develop a load based on new Winchester powders, or new Remington calibers. By the time you have things worked out, they have dropped them.