Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles H4831 vs. H1000 for 300 Win Mag

Gonna try one or the other next. Is one a clear winner? Speeds look similar in the books; accuracy is paramount for me though.

-jeff

4831SC

That's right, I meant to ask about that. What's the diff? I mean I know it's "Short Cut" or whatever, but what's that do? Better metering?

with bullet weight over 180, then H 1000 is worthwhile...

especially with 200 and 220 grain bullets...

my load in my 300 mag, is 83 grains of H1000 with a 220 grain bullet, with an MV of about 2950 to 2975, using a large rifle primer...

it is accurate as hell, flat shooting, and hits like a hammer...

and this is out of a Winchester Mag not a Weatherby...

load might be hot by the books, but a cartridge can take this load 5 plus loadings and still yield a tight primer pocket in my Browning A Bolt...

Same powder and same loading data. As you said, better metering.

Seafire, for now I am loading 180-gn ballistic tips. I have a load with RL19 that shoots great at 2950 fps, but I get a high velocity spread that really shows up at long ranges.

I'll be messing with 200's later this summer, but for now I'm sticking with the cheap, easy to get 180- NBT.

I should have mentioned bullet weight. So, using 180's is one better than the other?

Jeff,

I think the ballistic tips are not the bullet to use in the Mags.. it blows up too easily at close range and high velocity..

I love BTips, but use them at 2700 fps or under MV.. in about any caliber I shoot them in, with the exception of varmint cals.. and then sometimes even then, depending on the quarry...

I like RL 19, but I found H 1000 gave me much more consistent accuracy and MV with much less Std Deviation..

Seafire, agree on the BT's. These are just for target shooting at this point. This rifle is mostly just for long range screwing around.

You are the second person to report minimal SD with H1000...

-jeff

H-4831 wil give a little mors velocity with 180 grain bullets and it is a good powder to be sure.
I have switched to H-1000 in my 300 Win mag because it gives me a 5 FPS Extreme spread and for a long range load will give less vertical disspersion because of the lower extreme spread. I will give up a little velocity for that advantage. If one is not shooting past 500 or so yards then it is a moot point.
My load is the 180 TSX or Accubond over 81 grains of H-1000 in Win Cases, lit by a Federl 215M.

How well does H1000 meter, I have never used it?

Don't sell them 180 grain B/T's short, they are a fine bullet.

You can take them up to 3100 fps with no problems. "from my experience" I have put a few Elk in the freezer due to this bullet. The newer version of this bullet are much better than the older ones.

I run H-4831sc for this load in my 300 Win.

A few of my friends use this bullet as well.
Good luck
HD

I'll be surprised if I can see anything near that kind of speed from them... my sendero seems to have a balky chamber, or something. Things get very odd in a bad way long before I get anywhere near book max's or book speeds for that matter. It's pissin' me off. I guess I was due for a funky rifle as my last few factory guns have been gems.

But I'm interested in trying to get some good speed! :-) Hence the new powder. I think I'll try them both.

The H-1000 meters just as easy as H-4831sc. This is the powder I use in my 300 Win . when I shoot Swift Sciroccos.<180 gr.>
Hope this helps.
HD

Never used H1000 in the 300 Winnie. H4831, R-19, and R-22 are IME. If 200s are on the menu, then H1000 should be considered. 165s-180s, then H4831 would be the one Id try first before H1000.

7828 smokes 180's and 200's out real fast.

Bought a can a H1000. Since the idea for this rifle is to hit stuff far away, rather than punch little groups up close... I liked the idea of the small variation in velocity.

We'll see what happens, will report. I'll be buying a can of H4831 soon too.

Imr4831 and a 180 gr Accubond has worked really well for me,,,

Seafire,how do you get that much powder and bullet in the case?82.0 grs and a 180 is pretty compressed!what brass are you using?

Ackley:

Do you really use large rifle primers in your winny? How have they worked for you-seems to work great lookin at your targets.

Brett

83 grains of H 1000 is 9 grains more than Hornady's maximum in .300 Winchester, and 2 grains more than Nosler used with 220 grain bullets in the .300 WEATHERBY!

How about 300 yards with 180s and H-1000






425 Yards with H-1000

Ditto, or try RL-22. Have had excellent accuracy results and velocity is very good.

my source for H 1000 data is evidently in an older reload manual I have... the amount was 80 grains I believe...

Checking Steve Riccardelli's site, the load for a 200 grain bullet in the 300 Win Mag is 80 grains...with a large rifle primer you are looking at less pressure than with a mag primer..
so I used that and worked up to 80 grains with a 220 grain bullet, and had no pressure signs.. from there I worked up to the 83 grains.. this is a compressed load in this case..this is 5 grains over what is listed for the 220 grain bullet max.. which is 78 grains..

It is fairly commonly admitted that the 300 Win is not loaded to its full potential and even reload manuals are light on the full pressure the round is rated for..

Someone ran quickload for me on this quite a while ago, like 4 years ago, but came back that the pressure was below the SAAMI max for the cartridge.. I forget what the exact numbers were..

however, I also do my own personal test for high pressure, that is pretty simple if not very scientific...

if I can load a case 5 times, and the 6th time the primer still goes in nice and tight, I call it good..

well this load allows me to reload those cases over 5 times..
alot of guys I know who load 300 Win Mags, tell me they get about 3 reloads out of a case...

so therefore, for my own personal use, I call it good.. anyone else, work up.. it is a compressed load...but I was using the 300 Weatherby as a upper end point of reference, as I frequently do for this..

H 1000 is also slower than 7828....

funny, I get flamed by one crowd for using fast powders in cartridges for reduced velocity and reduced recoil loads.. then I get flamed at time by others by complaining my loads exceed what they found in some manual...

goes to show, some of us work with our rifles and find out what we feel is safe.. those that disagree with it, criticize it... so don't use it if you are from that school..

but each rifle is an entity onto itself.. and I have worked up loads, and then when I find it safe in my rifle, I compare it to what I find in manuals.. sometimes it is lower than their listed max, and other times it can be faster, and use more powder..

some people experiment with handloading, and some are afraid to deviate 1/2 of a grain of slow powder even, in a large case, from what is listed in some manual...

I don't criticize them, and think they should consider the same in return..

this wasn't aimed at Albertan above.. he posted his response with respect... but as soon as one person questions a load compared to a manual.. half a dozen come out of the woodwork...and I am heading the usual critique off at the pass..

Seafire. Nobody here flamed or criticized. And yes I realize you noted that below, but you seem overly sensitive to even being questioned.



On this, you and I agree 100%




Why are you so sensitve to being questioned or even critisized? Take it for what it's worth, which is often from those like you noted above, those that think whatever is written on the page in the book applies to every rifle made...which is worth exactly next to nothing!

I prefer H4831 for accuracy.

I'm sort of leary of H1000 as I purchased a hot lot and couldn't get anywhere near published data under 180s w/o pressure signs.

Reloader7RM

3,000 fps with a 200 grainer is impressive.

The 270 Win will get 3,000 fps with 150's using H1000 also, oddly enough.

+1-- hard to beat with 180's

From my .325 WSM, with a slightly larger bore, I can run 180's to near 3100 fps, and 200's at 2950 fps. These are max loads.

With this particular 300 Win Mag, I'll be shocked if I can get 180's above 3000 fps, from what I've seen. Kind of depressing <g>.

On the other hand accuracy is paramount for my particular application, not velocity.

Have any of you ever had a sticky chamber but with primers still staying round?

No, I have not. Sounds like you got a slow 300 there, bummer.

I have two loads that are safe in my rifle. One uses 80.5 grains of H1000 under a Nosler 200 grain Accubond for an average velocity of 3,035 fps. The other load I have utilizes Reloder 22 under a Nosler 180 grain Accubond for an average velocity of 3,162 fps. I have settled on the 180 grain load due to the accuracy it achieves...although the 200's were m.o.a.

300 Winnie, how much RL22?

With RL22, I was getting 2940 fps with 180's- with the abovementioned sticky chamber. So no way I was gonna add more. IIRC it was with 73 grains but that's from memory.

Funny thing... in a brutal way... is that I have a very FAST 30-06 that will push 180's to 2840.. so I've gained the big 100 fps here. :-(

Just have to really love those 06's
HD

I guess that's the "glass half full" interpretation! :-)

I shoot the same exact load in my Christensen with the same results!

Jeff O,

I use 76.0 grains of RL22 in my load with 180 grain Accubonds.

I wish I would have tried RL22 along time before I did.

To put it in perspective, 73 grains of the stuff, with a 180 BT, stuck a case in my chamber so bad I had to tap it out with a cleaning rod!

I think I have a FUBAR rifle.

Jeff-one of the tubes on my old 700 was a 23" Krieger in 300 Win and then I later had it punched to Wby for giggles.

Bottom line I used H1000 and either 165 Sierra HPBT's and or 200 Sierra's or 200 Nozlers. 4 me and in that tube it worked out incredibly well and no doubt I'd give it a go.

And as SU mentioned 7828 is another very good one (I find more and more uses for that powder all the time).

R22 is the other one I'd take a look at as well.

All of these normally give me the same kind of accuracy as one of the 4350's/4831's and yet they also give me generally about another 100 fps.

Good luck to ya

Dober

Back around '92 or so when I was just starting to reload I started out on a 300 WM. I was shooting Nosler 165 gr. BT's with 83 grs. of H-1000. Real accurate and a velocity IIRC of about 3170 FPS.....give or take!

I also tried the Sierra 200 gr. Gameking and was just shy of 3000 FPS.

That was enough for me. Then............and more so now...........I won't buy a pound of powder to gain 100 FPS!!!

Same as then I don't know anyone that is into this as much as me that I feel right asking for a few ounces.

I have a Ruger No.1 in 300 WM that I will get to reloading for and the Nosler 165 BT is what I will start with!!!

Those were the days.........powder was about $12 a pound and bullets were much cheaper!!!

I got 3150 with 74grs R-19, and 76grs R-22 in a 24" bbl. Tried some 200 Patitions with various doses of H4831, R-22, and R-25 all around 2980, but none gave acceptable accuracy. No pressure signs at all.

hunter,yes I use Fed 210M's in a few loads in one of my 300WM's but only with certain powders,In my experience RL 22 needs the 215M's to get tight little clusters,you will hear folks say you need a mag primer in cold weather but I have used them in Northern Montana -10 degrees and they light just fine,some times they really help tighten up a load! Good luck!

+1 I also use 76.0 grs of RL 22 for 3130 fps in a 25" tube!!

Seafire, I wasn't trying to criticize you and apologise if I came off that way,just can't Imagine getting that long of a bullet with that charge in a 300wm case!I have shot 180 Scirrocos and 82grs of H1000, another very accurate combination!

JWP,those are some nice groups! ya need to be careful your gonna wear out them negatives!

Jeff
If I were you, I would find me a good gun smith. Have him spin that barrel off and re-chamber it. I think you will be happier in the long run. I would not send it back to the factory.
One more thing to think about, if you are going take off your barrel go to the cost of rechambering it, for about $300.00 more, you can buy a new custom barrel.
Just some words for thought.
HD

HD, agreed on all points.

I have an appt. next week to take it to my guy. I don't think i'd pay the money to rechamber, but he's telling me $40 to "clean up" the existing chamber... he suspects a wee little burr at the chamber mouth, and I put a dental pick in there today and indeed, that edge did feel a little ragged.

I plan on rebarreling this withing the next year anyway, BUT, I'd like to shoot the $hit out of this barrel first <g>!! If you know what I mean. Just want it to function. At 300 Win Mag speeds I mean.

Pardon the cussing. We're all adults here on the reloading section, right? :-)

-jeff

Wish you luck.
HD

Jeff,

Polish the crap out of that barrel with some JB.
Muzzle down flush with the floor careful not to touch the crown and go after it two or three hundred times.

Seat a 180 into the lands in front of 79 to 80 grains of 7828.

I wish you were closer I'd let you borrow a can of it.

I hear that! I've got big cans of things that need sharing too.

There should be a website where people can trade this stuff. Let's see... how about:

ShareYourHazmatMaterials.com

or

YouCan'tLegallyShipThis.com

:-)

Believe me, I am getting close to buying some books and a few tools and just doing this stuff myself! I've worked with metal all my life. "How hard can it be?" (famous last words)

Ackley,

dont' sweat it there fella, didn't take it as a flame at all..

ya asked a valid question and hopefully I gave you a valid answer...

I come on here to share info with fellow shooters, not to butt heads with those that just like to come on line to argue since they don't have someone at home to do so with...

I am not normally a Magnum shooter... so my attitude, if I am going to need a magnum, then I am going to get MAGNUM performance out of it....otherwise I'll use a lighter cartridge..

hence the 220 grain and hence the 2950 fps...it wrings out the maximum punch capable out of a 300 Win Mag....

Quote by 280 Rem:

"Why are you so sensitve to being questioned or even critisized? Take it for what it's worth, which is often from those like you noted above, those that think whatever is written on the page in the book applies to every rifle made...which is worth exactly next to nothing! "

Reply:

280,
very legit question...after 4 or 5 years of sharing load data with fellow shooters, I have a lot of folks appreciate it, and I have a batch of guys who not only criticize it ( much smaller group) but just flame and flame and flame...

The problem here has been minimal on 24 compared to over at AR..

I guess over time, one starts to get hypersensitive to the flaming when you do stuff, share it for free with fellow shooters, and then get pissed on by a few, but try and get your goat by claiming you are going to hurt or kill someone..

I was raised and believe to try to get along with others, even when they may have a different perspective.. to respect other folks... its this attitude, vs the "F.U" attitude that other folks have..

that and being raised with the old value of " If you don't have something good to say, then don't say anything at all" kind of attitude..

So if my hypersensitivity seems a little too much for a few folks, I do apologize.. it is just not in my make up to tell someone to kiss off when I probably should...

beleive me, it doesn't bother me to spar with anyone, verbally or physically.. but arguing on line is like competing in the "special olympics"... and I am here to share info with fellow shooters, not get bogged down into a pissing contest with someone who hasn't even tried what he is criticizing.. so is clueless yet tries to present himself like he is "the" expert on the subject...

"its hard to soar with eagles when you work with turkeys" .... and some of these boards can get some real turkeys on here...
350 lb armchair ballistics experts...we all know the type..

cheers
seafire

RL-22 with bullets 165 & > is better than either, IME.

H4350 & RL-19 with 150's.

MM

Just getting starting on loading & shooting the 300 Win Mag. Good string, good info, & enjoyed reading the postings.
Good info, bases on experience, is getting to darn rare. I appreciate your sharing. Thanks guys.

I got a chance to shoot the rifle with H1000 today...

78 grains was giving me an average of 2960 fps behind a 180-gn Ballistic Tip. I didn't hit a "bughole" load, but everything was shooting right at MOA at 100 yards. So there's hope there. I'll mess with OAL and add a grain or two of powder, see what happens.

As JWP and others said, the stuff was very consistant shot to shot as far as velocity. I like that! The extreme spread was 26 fps across 20 rounds.

I seem to have somewhat fixed my chamber problem, or at least it's really obvious now what it is. I hit the chamber vigorously with a brass brush a couple times. Now, it's much less sticky- though still a little so- and I can tell what the problem is now. It's a burr on the outside mouth of the chamber. I can tell this easily now, because apparantly I removed about 75% of it! Now there's just one, really obvious spot leaving shiny scratch/drag marks when I extract.

This is a subtle burr. I can't feel it even with a dental tool- one of those ones they use to pick at your teeth when they clean them. But I can sure see the marks it's leaving on the brass!

Anyway I'll be buying a can of H4831SC next, unless I find a bughole load with the H1000, which would be cool too. I liked H1000 so far. Seemed very consistant.

MM- I'll have to try RL22 again. I tried it the first day shooting the rifle, when the chamber was SCARY sticky... so it didn't get a good test as I was unsettled by what I was seeing, to say the least, as far as rifle misbehavior! I do remember that I was getting decent accuracy and it was right about 2960 fps or so 3 or 4 grains under max.

Heres some results I've had with my Win 70 Classic Stainless with factory 26in barrel. I've pretty much settled on RL 22 and 180 TSX as my hunting load in this rifle but have had great results with the Accubond.

Nosler BT 180gr Rem 91/2M primer

H1000 83gr 3089fps es 16 sd 6.5
H4831sc 78gr 3109fps es 20.3 sd 8.7
IMR4831 75.5gr 3171fps es 49 sd 23.4
RE22 77gr 3116fps es 33.9 sd 12.6

Nosler PAR 180gr Rem 91/2 Primer

RE22 76.5gr 3140fps es 39.9 sd 16.5
H1000 83gr 3108fps es 35.1 sd 17.6
H4831sc 78gr 3118fps es 20.3 sd 11

Nosler AB 180gr

RL 22 76gr 3071fps es 28.2 sd 19.4

Barnes TSX 180gr Fed 215 primer

RL 22 75.5gr 3170fps es 21.1 sd 10.6

Win Failsafe 180gr CCI mag primer

H4831sc 76.5gr 3084fps es 17.2 sd 8.7