Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Cartridge/bullet dilema for Tundra Grizzly

How far her head shoots back

dang tough crowd......(laffin)

I would go with choice #2. You seem to like that -06, and it's a shooter, whats not to like. A 200gr partition at that velocity is a right stout load. I would bring the CZ as a back up. JMO

I would use the Nosler Partition bullet, with a preference to the 30/06 Imp. and 200 gr. NP

X2

Good luck!

I also have a cz in 9.3x62 but have only kill paper with it. With brown or grizzly bigger is better if one can put it on the mark. I think the 286gr .366 bullet would brake bones much better and flatten the bear. Also if things go bad I would much rather have a 286gr than a 200gr bullet on a very close and mad bear. I am sure your guide will have a large cal rifle. Also with the heavier bullet you should be able to break the front shoulders. It's nice to take the bears running gear out so he doesn't run into the alders and waits for you to come looking for him!! best of luck to you and hope you get big bear!!
Patrick

I have to disagree with you. You will be hunting Brown Bear.

DNA analysis has recently revealed that the identified subspecies of brown bears, both Eurasian and North American, are genetically quite homogeneous.

The longer outer guard hairs of the brown bear are often tipped with white or silver, giving a "grizzled" appearance.

Do whitetail deer from Maine look the same as a whitetail from Texas? No but they are both whitetail deer.

Coastal Brown bears in general will always be larger then inland bears. The coastal bears diet is loaded with protien from Salmon.

Also note that ground cover effects color phases of bears. Most all color phase bears come from the west where there is more open terrian and sunlight will shine on the bears. Maine produces very very few color phase black bears due to dense forest cover. Southeast Alaska is the same, our skies are charcoal gray, forest is thick, and sunlight is rare. These bears will be of the darker brown shades including a blackness.

What you are calling a grizzly is a Brown bear that is smaller in size on average then a coastal brown bear. Up in the interrior there is plenty of sunshine in the summer and these brown bears have the white or silver tipped hairs which gave them the name gizzly. Kodiaks are also brown bears and Coastal at that. The difference between them and say a southeast coastal brown bears is their diet is even more so loaded with Salmon protien then ours in SE AK. Which tends to make them larger in size. So until you can produce scientific evidance stating other wise you will be hunting Brown Bear (Ursus arctos). Enjoy your hunt.

I dont neccessarily agree with your idea of why bears are a given color. I have seen grizzlies that are dark brown on the north slope and I have seen blonde grizlies on the north slope. I have also seen dark brown Brown bears on Kodiak and I have seen blonde Brown bears on Kodiak. I think the sun/open country/forest concept is a more of a myth. Its merely a gene thing from bear to bear IMO.

And for arguments sake we dont refer to the bears of the interior as browns like they do down south, in the interior they are called grizzlies by most people, so IMO their geneology is just science talk not common conversation terms.

Also, the reason Kodiak grows some big bears is the fact many of the biggest bears never hibernate. There is always something "good" washing up on the beach and they can manage the winter without the long nap and all the growth stunting that can lead to...

Oh yeah, Accubombs are one of the few bullets I like less than the NP... I have recovered far too many NPs to use them anywhere I thought a blood trail might be a good thing... And I ALWAYS like a good blood trail.
art

Did not say that was the only factor in color phase. However it is a factor. I have seen light color Browns in SE AK specially on Chichagof Island. Also did not say you don't call them Brown Bears in the Interrior. I was aiming that at the original poster that stated he was not hunting Brown Bears that he was hunting Tundra Griz. If it were a gene it would spread more and you would see more color phase bears. In black bears as well. Also there is no scientific evidence of genes causing color phase.

While the causes are not perfectly clear, there is evidence to suggest that coat colors vary as a mechanism of camouflage or due to climate and habitat. Bears in moister, more densely forested regions tend to be black, while bears in the West, where conditions are drier and vegetation is sparser, tend to be brown or cinnamon. A black coat allows the bear to blend into the shadows created by dense trees and brush, and a brown coat blends better with the sandier, browner landscape. In addition, black retains heat far more than does a lighter color, so brown phase bears are less susceptible to heat stress in more open terrain. The surface temperatures of a black bear's fur can heat to 180 degrees Fahrenheit in the direct, hot, summer sun. Finally, there is evidence to suggest that melanin, the pigment responsible for the black coat color, is more resistant to abrasion, thus it would be advantageous to those bears living in heavily forested regions. Only 1% of the black bears in Pennsylvania are brown or red in color, while over 90% of the black bears in Yosemite National Park in California are tan, light brown or cinnamon.

MontanaCreekHunter
"Also there is no scientific evidence of genes causing color phase."

That is an interesting concept... All that gene mapping that has been and is being done on dog coat colors and such has no carryover?

I think not... Color is 100% determined by genes in all cases, all animals. I am seldom inclined to make such a direct statement and using "all" is a trap I try to avoid, but your statement is completely wrong.

Natural selection would favor the animal best suited for their particular environment and select the best gene combination for their genetic welfare.
art

Kermode's Bear kinda makes your case, as does SE Alaska's glacier bear.

Ursus arctos horribilis is the same species, whether he lives on the North Slope, the Western Peninsula, Kodiak Island, in Southeast, or in Yellowstone National Park. The "brown bear" vs "grizzly bear" distinctions are an artifact of Boone & Crockeet Club/SCI trophy rules, and have no basis in biology.

Dennis

[quote=Sitka deer]MontanaCreekHunter
That is an interesting concept... All that gene mapping that has been and is being done on dog coat colors and such has no carryover?

I think not... Color is 100% determined by genes in all cases, all animals. I am seldom inclined to make such a direct statement and using "all" is a trap I try to avoid, but your statement is completely wrong.

A Bear is not a dog. Are you suggesting that we can just take totally different animals and lump their biologly together? Come on now you have to be smarter then that. I have a very good friend that is a Bear Biologist. I am by no means an expert but I do comprehend the information he passes to me. I suggest you read up on the subject. This is a pretty good place to start www.amerincanbear.org. Show me where you get your information that "ALL" 100% Color is determined by genes because the Biologist/Zoologist I know state other wise. So I will await your information, I hope for your sake you can find info somewhere stating other wise. If you don't then you really made a fool of yourself.

Muledeer, I have read a bunch of your post. Have to say your knowledge and information is spot on. Yes the SE Glacier Bear is another color phase of the Black Bear. Look at the numbers of these bears they are small. I have seen many Black bears up on and around the Mendenhall Glacier and on and around the Taku Glacier. In all the bears I have seen only three "Glacier bears". While kayaking in Tracy Arm I have never seen anything but jet black Black Bears. If it were a gene it would be more dominatain in these areas. Which leads me to believe in what I have read and what my buddy has told me. That is that there is no scientific evidence of color Phase being a Gene. As I said earlier it is environment that creates the color Phasing. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that is absolute. I am saying thats what is known right now and generally accepted by Biologist and Zoologist (the experts). Me I am just an outdoor junkie clown.

Please identify your ADF&G bio friend via email. I know most of them and I would love to address them directly for either saying something so grossly wrong, or not getting it straight for you.

If you think there is no carry-over to bears please explain how they did/do such a great job with every domestic furbearing animal in managing color. My grandfather made a killing during the depression as a part-owner of a Canadian fox farm. They used principals of genetics to develop foxes worth many thousands of dollars. That must have been luck and bears must be different?

I think not. I am also not too concerned of being made a fool.

The concept of genes as carriers of such basic information is so utterly basic in biology I do not know where to start in bringing your misunderstandings up to speed.
art

Oh yeah...
"A Bear is not a dog. Are you suggesting that we can just take totally different animals and lump their biologly together?"

Yup, that is exactly what I am saying. The fundamental underpinnings are so well known and sound I am willing to stand on that limb...

Any of the rifles/loads will work fine. Put that 800 yd stuff out of your head! I doubt if your guide will let you shoot past 300. Used a .300 on my mt grizz and a .338 on the brownie.

LC

Out of your 3 options listed I would take # 2, if it were my hunt.

Geez Dean stay with the task at hand will ya?

IOW's quit hijacking the thread.

we've got the makings of a potential pizzin match and you want to go back to the original question?

what kind of outdoors enthusiast are ya?


btw how is you? Me, I'm in the mood for a Peartini!

The Kermode bear is one of several color phases of black bear in North America; the others include brown and cinnamon brown (sometimes moderately frequent in the western USA) and pale blue (rare, near Yakutat Bay, Alaska). To ascertain the uniqueness of A893G within the black bear species, we also assayed two other bears with variant coat colors. One was a white bear that was found in Minnesota, USA, and was phenotypically very similar to the Kermode bear. However, we found it did not differ from the black bear mc1r sequence except for a silent C408 transition at Gly136. As well, an assay of a cinnamon bear mc1r sequence revealed no amino acid-changing variants relative to the black bear mc1r sequence.

As you can read here the only gene found is in the Kermode Bears of B.C.

You sure have a lot to say and nothing to back it up with.