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.25-06 115g Berger at 2900fps, BC .523 TOF- 100y- 0.107s 600y- 0.760s 1000y- 1.484s
-0.6 seconds(less than 1s) for a bullet to fly 500 yards doesn't effect "random" movement much in my opinion. 1.3s moreso, but still not much.
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And up close, even the tiniest little noise or a quick shift in the wind can spook them causing them to jump while you're taking the shot. Odds of this are reduced at longer ranges.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Like I said, its not a can of worms but a pallet of worms on this thread, if anyone said Jeff O loves to stir it up, they are right... Lil' old ME? Well so far, so good. It's not degenerated and hopefully, it won't. Folks so far are staying more or less true to the topic, which is NOT the ethics of long range hunting.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Oct 2005
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AHhh what fun, For me so far perfect conditions 425yds, with modern firearms 300 is cake. I am working on streching my perfect conditions moving up from my trusty .270 and 440yd rangefinder to my 300win mag and 1200yd range finder cant wait to have the time to see what I can do with it, On watermelons and paper to start with till I am comfortable.
I really love 300yds, seems to be where elk don't seem to smell or care if you are there and is easily sighted in for. Sighted in 3.5 inches high at 100yd I can aim square in the kill zone from 0 - 300 yds without any compensation.
Where is that wascally Wapiti?
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Joined: May 2008
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I believe in a good rest and accurate firearms loaded with the best long range load for the purpose. Having said this, I took a 15"+ antelope buck, eastern MT, with my XP-100R in 260AI. The distance was 364 paces, whatever that might equate to. My handload consisted of Lapua brass fireformed to 260AI, neck turned, 46.0 gr. of H4350 and topped with a moly coated 107gr. SMK just kissing the lands. My XP-100R is topped with a Burris 3-12 BPLX handgun scope equipped with a scope level. This XP will shoot .5 groups all day. I was fortunate to have a windless evening and the buck had not seen me at all. I was able to get into a a prone position and had lots of time to drop him with one shot to the lungs. Well, actually he walked about 5 steps before he dropped. Can't breath, can't go! Now, I will say this, I normally will be cautious of long shots whether with a rifle or pistol. The conditions have to be perfect before I will chance a long shot at best.
Vena dura, ocyus occide, excusas non offer!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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folks like their chances at 100 more than anyones at 600... I dunno, can't ever recall missing at 600... heck with irons in a match I don't ever recall missing center by more than about 10 inches or so generally,and thats when the wind changes while I'm looking at my irons, not with a scope...
Anyway Id' take most true LR shooters chances at 600 over the average mart mart joes at 100.
TOF is an issue, and sure the odds are higher, but I'm still saying they can move up close just as easy, but the error may not be as much. Though I've had em duck my arrows TOTALLY at 20 yards.... thats pretty close... Yep its oranges to apples, but it always amazes me that folks can be ok with a 25 yard bow shot where the sound gets to the animal abouot 2-3 times faster than the arrow vs a bit longer shot with a rifle.
The best thing is all shots are controllable, IE take it or not, its your call. And that brings us full loop, if I'm 200% confident, its gonna go bang, regardless the distance. In the end though I'm 200% confindent there is nothing EVER thats 100% sure. Regardless of range.
Jeff Jeff My point was random movement is part of the equation, but no one listed it as a factor. I never said what limit, if any, it would put on a given situation. But 1/2 second can be a world of time.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Toltegriz
I use quick reply... nothing ever directed specifically at someone....
Yep random movement is there... I relay a 75ish yard shot... 2 pigs crossing the road, my nephew ends up firing just before I did, and as a result, I had a total miss of where the pig WAS a micro secodn before, that could have been a bad shot (is that possible on a pig) but lucky was a miss.
random movement is always an issue. Odds are it bites you worse at long range due to common sense, but lets face it, a grazing relaxed animal isn't going to do much normally, and a bedded animal almost never can move enough to be an issue.
Bottom line, IMHO most average folks will get bit by a wind issue before a movement issue at longer ranges.
But the real line is if I feel confident its a green light, if I am doubtful its a red light.
Last game I let walk away was cow elk at under 50 yards, they were alert, I was having a hard time with a clear target identification.... but there was certainly a shot, but I choose not to. My bottom line(not trying to sound arrogant) but I try to do the very best so that if you hear me shoot, you don't even have to ask... My buddy listened to me take a couple of mid range pokes I was convinced I could make this spring.... ends up I had overestimated the wind at about 350 yards and decided to quit shooting at the head and use the lungs... but his comment was, you never shoot 2 times. I heard the first shot but no impact and your head shots usually pop pretty loud, then 2nd shot... same.... then a long pause(while I'm digging for the right baggie in my backpack with more ammo... and wiping the blood off my knuckle-- Remmy ripped a hunk of meat loose from me having a bad hold on the gun... long story but I was making do with what I had for a rest etc...) and then a THIRD shot but a loud pop... I digress.
I'm much more concerned with a 20 yard bow shot than I am a mid range rifle shot VS animal movement, after all the bow shot the animal can hear it coming..... to top it all off, and I still aim low cause almost every animal I've shot with a bow has moved before the arrow hit. Doesn't stop me from shooting though.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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everything right, wind non moving game, flat shot, ill take 600. my gun produced a 3" group at 500, opened up a little at 700 but still good enough to take an elk everyshot.
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You got a bench in the woods you aren't telling anyone about...got those elk trained to walk infront of the bench and pause at 700 yds? Insert head scratching icon here....
Perhaps one day I will understand what is sporting about shooting a game animal at nearly .5 miles, but most likely not.
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Why exactly do people like you click on the forum titled, "Long Range Hunting?"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Did we mention ethics or sporting... challenging yes. Of course I personally don't see whats sporting about using a firearm on an animal at ALL... its all too easy, and gives them very little if any chance...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
You got a bench in the woods you aren't telling anyone about...got those elk trained to walk infront of the bench and pause at 700 yds? Insert head scratching icon here....
Perhaps one day I will understand what is sporting about shooting a game animal at nearly .5 miles, but most likely not. A boxing match, a football, baseball, or basketball game is a sporting event. When I hunt I am trying to kill an animal and then I am going to eat him, sporting has nothing to do with it, it is the same as killing a beef IMHO. If it were a sporting event then Las Vegas would give odds on the outcome and taking bets but they don't. Niether is Professional Wrestling a sport and there is no odds or bets in Las Vegas on it either.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So tightloop tell us how you hunt, and under what kinds of conditions that are so sporting?
Thx Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joecool,
That is hilarious. Great pic.
---------- Hunting is my religion
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Campfire Tracker
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Last edited by joecool544; 06/25/08.
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Campfire Outfitter
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yep that's a classic photo jc
but tell me do you do the sporting thang and ring the gong first to let them know of incoming?
and if so does it just make them deaf and then you can pick them off at your leisure?
I've not done enough turret work, so for me, 350 yards is my max self imposed limit, and then it'd better be conditions perfect.
"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."
TEAMWORK = a bunch of people doing what I say
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Heard tell of shotguns and shot that will take Geese down at over 100 yards....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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300 yards with a good scoped rifle; 400 yards if I have a range finder. Pretty much my thoughts too. I once killed one gaminal (a pronghorn) at @400 yards or slightly less with a friend's .270W and ammo he reloaded - that I had complete faith in until I learned the ammo was made with a Lee Loader where powder charges were scooped unsterad of weighed. When selecting a rifle-scope-cartridge-and "load," I always select something that will do a good job to 300yds, and add 100yds for a "buffer." It's called "hunting," not slob's "shooting." When I started hunting almost 40 years ago, I read, or heard or was told many times that 90% of my shots would be under 250yds. This has indeed proven true, along with ALL biggame I've witnessed others kill as well.
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