Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 300 yard groups, What are your expectations?

I look for 300 yard groups like this.....but very seldom get them. These 3 4 shot groups were shot back to back during load devolopment for my 6x47 lapua. These groups are better than most I have shot in matches with my PPC. For hunting rifles I mostly am satisfied wih 1/2 MOA on a custom rifle or MOA for a factory gun. But I am one of those idioys that burns up 80 percent of my barrels lives searching for that magic load. I guess I just get kicks out of it.

My 40 year old Bull Rifle in 300 Win will shoot 2 inches or less at 300 yards consistently. With the bench replaced by a padded, prone position, I'm happy with double that. It still is enough to make the newbys to the long range chuck game to shake their heads in wonder. I notice big differences with seating depth, so don't get careless there.

Wayne

SU: Past couple of days I've shot some rifles at 300 and 400 yards. All light sporters with not real high power scopes.All 3 shot groups.All fired from "field prone" which is left hand supporting the forend over a rest,no rear bags.

The new Kimber Montana 257 Roberts fired one group of about 6",and two other groups of 3.5-4.5".This is a very light rifle and I am still getting used to it.Groups got better as I dropped the power of the scope from 10X to 6X.Little rifle sorta bouncing around on me.

Pre 64 M70 270 FW with 4X Leup went into just a hair over 3".

Pre 64 M70 in 30/06 with 2-7 Leup went 4" at 300,and 3" at 400(!)Got lucky!

300 Weatherby with 4X Leup and the factory 180 Nosler Solid Base hovered around MOA at 300 yards.

Bob, your results are pretty much my goal.
I'd like to consistently shoot around 3-4" at 300 and 4-5" at 400, everytime.
Not quite there yet.

Since we're testing the gun and not the shooter.....

Start with a good solid bench and a good front rest & rear bag.
At least 1 wind flag, 3's better.
Your middle target shows very little vertical, the other 2 quite a bit. Looks like wind. But, vertical in a bench gun usually means more powder. How's your extreme spreads. Vertical only gets worse as the ranges get longer with a big ES.
Seating depth. I always start hard in the lands. Only one way to go after that. Even on a hunting gun. I deal with the magazine length later. We're looking for the ultimate, right?
Neck tension is a tuning tool also. Standard dies you can polish the expander ball down a bit, or play with different bushings
in a type s die.
Do you anneal your brass? I anneal every time on my match brass, which I feel helps in bullet seating consistancy.
Is your scope an A/O model? With most non A/O focused at 100yds, long range groups will suffer. Hell, my 2x7 has 5" of paralex at 300 yds, if your not straight behind the scope! Makes it tougher to shoot itty bitty groups. Not impossible, just tougher, consistantly. Prolly why you don't see any 2x7's with the LR dotz on the 1000 yd. line.
Which brings us back to the bench again. You need good bench tecniques as well. Your vertical could very well be self induced.
And, some days, you just plain-assed shoot better than others.
All in all, I think you have a decent load. Your search for the holy grail may just end with a smooth barrel.

Al

Lighter rifles are a challange as you have to get everthing right,every shot.A heavy rifle is more tollerant of your mistakes.Just so you know the 6mm PPC holds every record for accuracy at 300 yards.And is also has the most wins at the 500 yard egg shoot.Thats one shot at one egg with no sighters at 500 yards.
A new 6PPCs first trip the the rifle range.Loads loaded at the range.A 11 shot agg,two different loads.Total .197 .At 100 yards.

My 300 WM.Dober bran Schneider Barrel.5 and a half.1-12 twisted
M700,HTG, 4-16x50 PMII.Weighs in at 12.5.No fun to carry but everything I ever pointed it at - died.Notice, its a 6 shot group.


The PPC is alot more fun to shoot.
Its kinda like golf clubs.You gots to have just the right club for the shot at hand.Rifles are no different.
You have a great day SU.
dave

Will a 180 grain Ballistic Tip hurt a rock chuck as bad as a 240 Match King? The Bull Rifle has a 1 in 10 so it likes the longer stuff a tad better. (Really nice shootin')

Wayne

Sam: I only keep the rifles that shoot good;it ain't me,and it is not that difficult from a solid rest I expect the rifles to do it, but I can't always do it.What I posted is what I got the last few trips to the range.

Mark, any position as far as I'm concerned.

I shot mine from a bench using a bipod. A couple of evenings ago I was with Shag and I sent two shots down the same hole at 300 using 200 AB's and win primers. 3rd shot felt good and I just new I had an under an " group out there. Alas, I had inadvertantly loaded a round using a Rem primer, shot went 8" away.




My extreme spreads are less the than 12.
I'm also seated out as far as I can go in my Wyatts box.
My smith did not do my any favors when he punched my factory tube to a WSM. He has the throat out there and I feel lucky to be doing what I'm doing and have to wonder if the longer 200 grain bullets are helping out from cartridge mouth to barrel throat.

I'm also using a Leupold 4.5x14 LR with M1 dial set at 12X.

For a factory tube that was turned down from .65 to .57 it has
exceeded my expectations. I call factory barrels ciggerete tube's
You smoke them then throw em' away there's always more.

There is just a wealth of info that has been given on this post by a lot of very good shooters, all is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

peepsight3006,
I spotted for Boyd Heaton as he dusted a woodchuck at about 150 yards with a 240g.A few years ago when he came up here to do some chuck hunting.The big bullet tore that chuck up pretty good.
But to be honest i've seen a host of other rounds do alot more damage.I typcally worry more about getting a hole in them than anything else.----- did push my 22 CHeetah very hard once.Ran 50g Sierra sptizers over 4300 fps.I shot several chucks and all I can say is YUK.It was kinda goofy.Blow there little heads off and you'd find blood on the ends of there tails-bottoms of there feet and wierd stull like that.I perfered the accuracy load of a 52g Berger much better.Still, was fun to play.
dave

300 win mag 180 TSX, 81 grains of H-1000

I do not care how a rifle shoots @100 yards, I care WHERE in relation to the 300 yard zero. 2" @ 300 is my gaol with 340 WBY class rifles, some rifles do not impress @ 100 and are screamers @ 300. I fear I have sold some that were so-so @100 and did not give them a look @300...'Won't make that mistake again.

Bob,

If this were a 10-shot group, maybe even a five-shot group, the bullets would more likely be evenly dispersed. That is the problem with three-shot groups, we don't know which part of the 10-shot group they are showing. In any 10-shot group, there will undoubtably be three shots very close together. There will also be three shots that are far apart. As such, I always figure that when I get two touching and one far away, that is the real size of the group were I to shoot a larger group.

Here is what a well-tuned load, shot from a competition bench gun, looks like at 1000 yds in mild wind. The yellow group measured 3.5," the red group 6.5", and the group with no pasters measured 4 11/16."

Aah...yep that will do...grin

Dober

It's just hard to lug the 15 lb rifle, the sandbags, and the bench out into the woods ................

Bet your right.

Thanks

If you had a common point of aim it would be interesting to overlay the groups on top of one another. That would be a way to analyze the groups and eliminate the barrel heat that would come up in 10 shot groups with a sporter barrel.

Good point sir, I'll try that.

Overlapping groups can be a good tool. The only issue with overlaying groups shot at long range is differing environemntal factors (wind, temp) can overcome the load. This is especially prevalent at 1000 yds, though not much of an issue at 100 or even 200. 300 yds is about the max range where I'd overlay groups, and only when shot in the same conditions on the same day.

The best shooting diagnostic I ever did was at 1000 yds in excellent conditions. My rifle was a screamer with 5-shot groups but so-so with 10-shot groups. I had the guy pulling my target track all my shots. The first five were as good as any five-shot group that had shot that day, but the next five opened up in a circular pattern. This is a classic sign of having too skinny a barrel for the job, and that was the case with my rifle.

I learn something new all the time here, interesting.

Blaine, for my next build,

What muzzle brake did you use or do you recommend?

Also,,,, know anybody with a good reamer?