Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting How fast can hard cast bullets be run out of a rifle?

Just picked up a 375 H&H and wondering if I could run a hard cast bullet up to 2300-2400 fps as an alternative to expensive jacketed bullets. I also have a 45/70, 44 mag and 41 mag which would run at slower velocity obviously. I would think a gas check bullet would be in order, but I don't know a whole lot about it. I won't cast my own, at least for now. I appreciate your advice and any sources to get good bullets at reasonable price.

Thanks!
Sam

pick up the lyman hand book on bullet casting

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000159837249

I've run 22 Hornets 46 grs at close to 2,900 with gas checks and a pard's 35 Whelen with 250s at 2,450. Sometimes it requires dinking, sometimes they don't. There is a lot of variables. Fitting the bullet to the throat (length and diameter) will make stuff easier.

I've never bought any, but I believe Beartooth Bullets would make a hard gas checked .376-.378 diameter rifle bullet. The moulds they use are good, but I know little about the company themselves.

I'd look at beartooth if they have any that diameter.

I'd slug you're throat and get an idea of what size bullet you will need.

I'd also not look at full house loads. Aim for 2-300 fps slower and good accuracy. That way you'll get lots of practice in. It will be cheaper, not as punishing and fun.

Then save the jacketed bullets for your serious hunting.

I shoot cast bullets using jacketed bullet loading data in the 405 Winchester, 30-06. I also use cast bullets exclusively in the 45-70, 45 Colt Winchester 92.
It's a matter of sizing, lube, gas check, alloy.
There's a lot of voodoo, hoodoo out there relating to shooting cast bullets at high velocity. Mostly it's common sense, experimenting, learning what works for you and your firearm.

Jim

How fast you can shoot a cast bullet without leading or accuracy problems doesn't have a simple you can push them xxxx fps and be fine. Leading/accuracy are related to the barrel/throat dimmensions, twist rate, bullet sizing, bullet hardness, lubricant, and the pressure the load you are running opperates at.

As a general rule of thumb you'll find most rifles will perform well with cast bullets driven 2000-2200 fps. If your barrel is "cast friendly" i.e. your throat is say 0.002" over bore dia, you have a slower twist, say max 1-12 better yet 1-14 or 1-15, and your cast bullets are sized 0.001" over bore dia and have a good lube you might just find that they group right in there when pushed 2300-2400 fps.

HawkI

"I've run 22 Hornets 46 grs at close to 2,900 with gas checks".

What caliber were the above shot in at that speed and how was your accuracy?

Thank,
Dew

Are gas checks mandatory if pushing hard lead over 2,000 fps?

Dew,

My hunting partner is a huge 22 Hornet fan and he has several. We have had no problems getting 3/4 in five shot groups with two of them in particular. One is a CZ 527, the other a A-Bolt Micro. Both have 1-16 in twists, which goes a long way to getting accurate full power loads.

These guns pretty much handle jacketed loads and lead loads alterately. Lil' Gun is the powder.

My 222's (1-14), despite being very accurate, just don't cotton to the cast loads like the 22 Hornet does.

A 35 Whelen is also slow twisted and responds well to cast at full power.

HawkI Thanks.
One last question... which cast bullet were U using in the Hornet to get that kind of accuracy and also what lube if you don't mind sharing.

Actually, two different ones. One is an old Herter's 46 gr, RN (made by Lyman) and the other is a 48gr. brass mould by NEI.

I had used LBT Blue Soft initially, then once I figured out what was required to hit high speed or high pressure I started making my own. Its cheaper, works better for me because its a touch softer and I don't have to call many times to ask if my order was lost.

LBT's lube technology was state of the art when it was created (mid to late 80's), but it can be duplicated today relatively easy and inexpensive. LBT Blue is still the best that can be BOUGHT, IMO. Alox was about the best before it.

Should have added that I also load for the 375 Whelen using cast bullets exclusively. I've got the Lyman, Saeco, NEI and RCBS molds. They all shoot accurately using the loading data for 35 Whelen jacketed bullets as a starting load.
Jim

A friend of mine loads cast for his 375 H&H Model 70. He loads the Saeco 265 gr FP bullet to about 2600 FPS. The last I knew, he was using 50/50 WW/Lino alloy, and using up the last of his stockpile of Paco Kellys "Apache Blue" bullet lube. From what I hear, whitetail deer are VERY impressed with this load. Believe it or not, he's trying to figure out how to make the load shoot faster yet, without losing any accuracy. When I first met him, he thought cast bullets were dirty & inefficent. I've created a monster.

HawkI

Could you post your recipe(s) & instructions?

Casters are rare here in Sweden so opportunities to buy bullet lube of any sort are just about non-existant. Being able to make my own lube for full-power loads in my .358 Norma Mag and .375 H&H Mag would be neat!

John

This is a good question. I have aquired a No.4 Mk1* fitted with an English two groove barrel (that means the grooves are very narrow). The bore is good with a little surface rust damage (without the rust damage the bore would have been 'as new' - but it is shiny). I am planning on making a mold to suite my barrel for a 200 - 220 gr hollow point bullet. I plan to go without the gas check and instead use a cardboard wad and paper cup arrangement. I would be happy if I could just get 1800 fps but the 303 has a 1 in 10 twist so.... But if I could get 2000.... Not possible with that twist rate right?

My hornet with its 1 in 16 twist barrel was shooting 55gr gas checked bullets OK at, I think, about 2600 fps or more. (I currently run 55gr jacketed bullets and have used 60gr bullets as well. Lil'Gun runs them real quick!)

Dew,

You have a PM.

I have exceeded 3,000 fps chronographed with a 200 gr hardcast, gas checked out of my .444T. I am using VV N-120 and am not at max load yet and don't see going any further. I have settled on a load that gives me 2,850 to 2,875. The bore on my rifle is .429 and my boolits are sized .432. I figure they will melt if I push them faster. No leading, no signs of excessive pressure and deadly accurate.

Dave

303guy, you should be able to get to 2,000 fps with that bullet.

If you're using a GC bullet with NO gc on it, then all bets are off.

Why the hollow point?

I thought that if I used hard alloy I would need to assist the expansion a bit. I have made a trial mold that casts nose up with an intergral gas check and I use a punch to plug the hole that also makes a hollow in the nose. (The bullet is pushed out the bottom of the mold and goes through a sizer to remove the slight shank taper). I have only loaded up one round so far. The bullet is seated in a paper patch. The bullet and neck is dipped into molten wax/lube and allowed to drip off. So the bullet is coated with lube and has a lubed paper patch and a GC. The powder charge is the starting load with Varget. Expected MV is around 2200fps. We'll see what happens.

I am planning on dropping the hollow point in favor of a sprue cutter - too difficult to maintain the correct temperature with the punch arrangement.

with a harder alloy your bullet will shatter at higher velocity not "BEND"

With standard WW alloy water quenched you should easily be able to get to 2000 fps; that BHN will still allow for some expansion. Most work is done on a cast bullet with the Meplat.

You can run ww's air cooled to 2000 fps, and they will also expand at that velocity. There was a good article on the 35 whelen with cast ww bullets vs. elk a few years back in handloader. The results were that air cooled ww @ 2000 fps were accurate and effective on game.

Hawki
Anywhere round the Des Moines area to buy cast bullets with a gas check reasonably? I want to load a 30-30 with cast and a gas check. Or is it best to order them from somewhere?. kwg

I'll make you some, but they won't be flatnosed.

I'll poke around and see what I can find; I make all of my own so I couldn't tell you what they run. S-W might have some and I think they are trying to get rid of them.

I'll get back to you and see what I can find.

kwg, I'll send ya some, I have some flat nosed ones.

Just let me know what dia you need. Have you slugged your barrel?

It's a Marlin 336 30-30. I have been using .308 diameter. I like the few 150's I have shot but I'll take 170's. I will be more than glad to order some if anyone can point me in a good direction. It's my son's gun but I like it so well I've thought about getting one too. I have some all lead cast 150's but I have loaded them down because I don't want to lead up the barrel. The lead feels a little soft thus my concern.

I retire from my current job in December so I have held off buying any more guns but I'm still reloading anything and everything. I am looking at one of the contract over seas jobs so if I buy another gun, I won't be here to shoot it.

Are thses bullets you guys have made yourself or are they commercial? I used to cast black powder balls and I still have a few around the house somewhere. I have not shot my muzzle loader for probably close to 30 years. I see the gas checks at Sportsmans warehouse but I'm not sure the process of making the bullets. I was at SW today but I saw no gas check bullets. Infact I only saw some Hornaday 170's for the 30-30. Their selection is pretty skimpy and expensive if you ask me. kwg

The RCBS 30-180FN cast from quenched WW alloy and patched with 6 wraps of teflon tape works well at about 2000 fps through Lee Enfields.

KWG,if you have a good lube and they are sized right you can use soft lead, it doen't have to be really really hard.

generally speaking you will want to use a lead bullet about .001 larger than the slugged size of your barrel.

you can lead the barrel even with reduced loads if the bullet lube is bad (bad meaning not designed for the velocity your shooting at) or the bullet doesn't fit properly (wrong dia.

I make all of my own bullets.

the process to make bullets, cast lead bullet is this.

Melt the lead/alloy (many use wheel weights, minus the zinc ones)
Pour the lead into the mould, open mould out pops the boolits.

then after the boolits cool you will need to size them to the size you need and apply lube and gas check.

Usually lubing sizing and putting on the GC (gas check) is all done in one operation.

I currently have a 226gr 30 cal bullet I shoot out of my 30-06 at 1850 fps, I can shoot all day and not get leading and the accuracy is very good.

With your marlin you will have 'micro groove' rifling if I'm correct. To get those to shoot lead bullets well it is important to slug the barrel and find out how long and how large (the dia) of the throat is.

when shooting cast bullets it's customary to want to shoot a heavier bullet at a bit slower speed.

You get good down range "oomph!" with the heavier bullet.

why shoot heavier?

because sometimes it's not practical to shoot the lighter bullets at the same velocity as the jacketed ones.

so shoot a bigger one.

Thanks Blammer. If this overseas job plan falls through I'll think about casting my own bullets. In Iowa we are greatly limited where we can shoot deer with a rifle. Most of the state is shotgun or muzzleloader. I had never shot a lever action until my son bought his. They are really cool and I'm thinking a 45 70 or 444 would be a neat round to reload and shoot.

cool!

If I were you I'd get a 45 70.

way more boolits to be able to cast and shoot out of that caliber.