Here is the new Jeep vehicle. It's about the same size as the H2 hummer but it has a real drive train like the original Hummer and a 5.9 liter Cummins diesel engine. 37" tires and built in GPS, infrared night driving screen, inflate on the fly tires, run flat tires, and a special 4 wheel drive system that applys power to all four wheels or any one wheel with a selector. It also has 4" of on the fly lift for off road applications and fording water. I forget the fording depth but it was something like 38"
www.huntingadventures.net Are you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
Cheaha, your Jeep is outdated (snicker) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Too bad that thing isn't made by Toyota. It would really be something to own <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Flinch
Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
Westman, They do have a great ability to navigate as I too have a friend who owns one, The real H1 not the H2. Unfortunately they need to be used in the desert as they are far to big to be driven in the mountains on logging roads. He spends an aweful lot of time in reverse because he cannot turn that beast around anyplace.
The engine is badly underpowered too, and he has had thousands in repairs for stupid little things that have broken. My neighbor has an H2 and my hunting parner has an H2. They are the most luxury 4X4 ever made I think. It's just a chevy suburban with Hummer sheetmetal and some upgraded drive train components. Still nowhere nears as functional off road as the original but at least you can actually use it in the mountains! The H2 has good power but 8-10mpg with todays fuel situation is not for me. Maybe when GM figures out how do build a real diesel they can offer it as an option to make them a bit less expensive to drive?
Two years into the diesel production they have a complete redesign to solve the many problems they are having with the Japanese Aluminum diesel they use now. I had no idea there was such a problem with them, from everything I had been reading the owners love them. I guess the warranty issues are driving the redesign.
www.huntingadventures.net Are you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
I have heard that the H2 is the WORST (by far) vehicle on the current market for warranty and delivery defects. Jeeps have not been great in that respect but anything would be better than the bad rap the H2 is getting.
I suspect that with all the whizbang crap they put on this rig, the price of this Jeep will make it a Doctor/Lawyer rig too.
I think I need to find an old Land Cruiser 4 door wagon, and build it.
Exactly why I buy Toyota and nothing else. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> American 4x4's purely suck in my experience. They are fine for soccer moms, but they sure don't hold up when used off road a lot. Well, Badger's truck is alright <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Flinch
Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
That jeep is a very nice rig. I hope jeep builds it!
I used to have a Cherokee 4.0L and traded it after 140000 miles. Replaced the clutch and that was the only major repair!
Now I have a 2002 Tahoe LT. Less money that a Toyota with more room and power. I will admit that I don't hunt with the tahoe, I have a Bronco for that. The tahoe has 50000 miles and I have owned it since new. I had to replace a door lock (warranty) and that has been it. I am very impressed with its Auto-4WD on horrible Montana roads.
I don't know about the H2 (it shares a lot of components with the tahoe/suburban) but I think GM is making a very good and competitive product.
Not what I've seen Flinch. I live in the neighborhood of the famous Rubicon Trail. Jeeps rule. I hunt the hottest, and driest desert in North America. Jeeps rule there too. The only thing that stpopped my little 4 cyl., stock tired Wrangler was when I hung it up on the skid plate. No repairs as of yet. I've had it four years now. Toys don't work as well. Unequal angle of attack and departure. They are very expensive to maintain. Unlike yours, I've seen lots of them with shot engines at 100,000 miles. E <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Don't know how much the Grand Cherokee and the Wrangler have in common, but due to 2 Grand Cherokees and a Chrystler T&C van, I will NEVER (never say never, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) own another Chrystler product. Money pits, every one! My brother had the same van and based on his and a neighbors experiences with the shop, predicted damn near to the mile every single trip to the shop that I had on mine -- kinda makes you wonder...
Kinda hafta think it would be the Jeep Rubicon. Beefed up diffs front and rear, and an extra low range transfer case, short wheelbase. Closest to what is needed for rock crawling, but would probably have to take some of the detours around the hard problems.
Is Rubicon actually a good tet for a hunting vehicle? None have much weight capacity and they don't have to handle snow, freezing weather, or mud. At least not from what I have seen. I doubt you will have much concern over body work on any good rubicon vehicle.
I suggest that Rubicon is a good test for a rock crawler but not much else. one of the original H1 hummers would be a dismal failure and we all know they have great capability. How would you fit one through the rocks on that trail?
It's still hard to beat a Toyota pickup with some additional drive train work for an awsome hunting truck. Small and agile with good capacity to carry gear and game.
www.huntingadventures.net Are you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
I'm with you JJ on that one. I drive a full size diesel crew cab only because I need to haul horses, etc. It stinks in tight terrain. A short bed Toyota 4x4 (used, you don't want to cry about scratches <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) would be the ticket in my book.
I dream of one when I get back in the crap with my truck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
That's not a rig!!!!This is a rig <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />She's got a massive 2.8lt engine and transfers that torque to the ground through a 4 speed box,she does 0 to 100 in 15 minutes with her sheep skin seat covers and her muilty size adverse terrain tryes, and she comes with a manual tyre pump,,,and I drilled big holes in the floor so when it turns into a sub the water can drain out when we finally get back on terra firma,,,and,,and SHE'S CONVERTIBLE, so there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hunting the Mountains Look and learn from the little things, but do not be to hasty to draw conclusions, for only the mountain has been here long enough to be that wise.
Dude that truck ROCKS! It has a nice bumper as well, not as fancy as ARB or TJM but it's gonna work just as well. I found this place to do mine. Much like the fancy ARB but much heavier. That truck of yours is a true hunting machine with what must be great manouverability!
www.huntingadventures.net Are you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
My friend. I'm throwing the "BS flag" on you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I have explained this issue in detail before. As such, I will not let you off so easily this time................. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Of course, you knew this would be coming.............
The Dmax has thrived under power levels that folks used to think only the Cummins could withstand. There have not been issues with durability of the aluminum heads. It was originally thought that the Dmax engine would be the weakpoint and the Allison would be bullet proof. However, the truth is the opposite. The Alli can only handle about 680 ft lbs of torque when shifting from 4th to 5th, and the Dmax can generate well in excess of that. Mine currently generates about 380 RWHP at 2700 rpm and 810 ft lbs of torque at 2300 rpm. I know guys who have been running 450 RWHP+ with no problems.
Your comments about the '04 redesign are a bit misleading. The Dmax was the first Bosch common rail injection diesel pickup sold here in the states. Some early '01s had injector issues, most likely related to the junk diesel fuel we have here in the US. However, these growing pains were relatively minor, unlike the '03 Ford 6.0 PSD which initially had huge problems (which are now sorted out).
Anyone familiar with diesel engines knows the injection system is the heart of the engine, and the new common rail systems--like on your Dodge--tend to be fussy about fuel. All three brands of trucks had growing pains when first introduced. Even your '03 HO Cummins has had it's share of injection system problems. I posted a list of some of these before.
However, Cummins went to school on the '01 Dmax and introduced their common rail system with external injectors at the beginning. Why? Because they saw the even common rail diesel injectors have a tendency to fail, and it just makes sense to make it quick and easy to change them.
This is the "complete redesign" you keep talking about. The injectors on the 01-03 DMaxes (BTW that is three years of production) are not external, they are inside the valve covers and are a pain to change. GM must have initially thought the Bosch system (same brand that is on your truck) would be more relibale than it is. However, GM--like Cummins--has come to realize the injectors on these common rails will periodically fail. As such, they have redesigned the external portion of the heads and valve covers to allow easy replacement of the injectors.
The '04 LLY motor has also gone to a variable vane turbo to make it more compatible with the EGR systems that are now being forced on diesels. I also think they improved fuel filtration (the real issue), but I am not sure on that.
The above is hardly a major redesign.
Also, the engine is not really Japanese. GM contrated with Isuzu to design a diesel engine to GMs specs. The engine is built in Ohio. Isuzu as been building diesels for 60 years for duty all over the world. Their engine design has not been a problem. Though the majority of Dmaxes are trouble free (like mine), it has been the European designed (like on your truck) Bosch common rail system that no one knew would be so sensitive to US fuel that has caused the most problems.
The reason you have read about so many Dmax owners loving their trucks is because the problems are few, the truck is reliable, and it performs very well. All that is evidence of a very good truck. If you want something to compare it with, Ford bought back over 500 2003 6.0 PSDs from owners--that is the sign of something very wrong (but again, it now appears to be sorted out).
GM is to be commended for making injector maintenance easier on the DMax. I suppose you could say they should of thought of that in 01, but no one else even stepped up to the plate with a similar injection system on an American pick-up until two years later.
Having said all that, all three brands of US trucks are good pickups. They all have their quirks. They all have their strong and weak points. Each brand has it's lemons, and each brand had problems with first year models. They all need clean air, clean fuel, and clean oil to run reliably.
JJ thats one flash rig you got there....How do you get into it????with a step ladder, man thats ground clearance for ya
Hunting the Mountains Look and learn from the little things, but do not be to hasty to draw conclusions, for only the mountain has been here long enough to be that wise.
Hey - I never said it was the best hunting rig. I just answered the question that was asked, to the best of my knowledge. As you yourself stated, the H1 would not have a good time on the Rubicon, nor would your Ram, allthough both are quite capable rigs in their own right.
And I never said that a stock Rubicon was the ideal vehicle for rock crawling, just as close as you can get, stock. I think...
Personally, living where I do, I could go out tomorrow and buy some sort of wild-thing trail rig for a fifth of the price of the Rubicon or less. Something that was both more capable of rock crawling and hauling anything needed for hunting. And there would be no need to ever worry about its sheet metal getting too munched, as it would have been extensively modified by the Granite Body Shop.
fwiw, I'm driving a 2003 Ford Excursion 4x4 with locking rear differential and the 7.3 PSD and 4 speed auto OD. It's a pleasure to drive on the open road, however, it does not inspire confidence off pavement. Have to hitch a ride with a buddy when we call fox on the farm. Everybody in the extended family either has a Diesel Powered Excursion or Super Duty Pickup and they are uniformly useless off pavement... My next truck, no more SUVs, is going to be a 4 door cab Toyota Tacoma 4x4 with a short bed. A spray in bedliner and a set of Extreme floor mats and there we go...(grin)
If we are talking about a stock, off the show room floor vehicle, then my vote goes for the the Jeep Rubicon. Here are my reasons:
1) Better tires (Goodyear MTRs versus the street tires now coming out on most 4X4s - even those with the "Off-Road" packages).
2) Manuverability - can get through really tight places 3) Front and Rear selectable lockers.
Items #1 and #3 the things most people do to their stock vehicles when they want to make it more capable off-raod and the Jeep comes stock with it. Many trucks have the rear locker (or limited slip), but I have not seen too many with the front.
The Rubicon has also been given beefed up axles (Dana 44's front and rear) which should help with its durability. They are also priced where most people could afford them.
The main drawback as mentioned earlier is their cargo capacity, but I live pretty close to where I do most of my hunting (and we have put many a dead deer in the back of my brother's Jeep) so this is as big of an issue for me. Just my thoughts.
The question of "best street-legal off-roader" is a no-brainer. The top three (in order) are Jeep YJ, TJ, CJ.
Pickup trucks offer cargo handling advantages, but they also mandate that you will park then walk the rest of the way in. If any vehicle can DRIVE in all the way - it's a Jeep.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. Robert Frost
At long last I've been able to afford the best of both worlds. My 3/4 ton Cummins Dodge carrys my fully equipped cab over camper and tows my Jeep ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
E, if they lost the motors at 100,000 miles, they never changed the oil. I have owned 15 Toyota trucks and NOTHING, not even a Jeep comes close. I would like to hear the details of your "neighbors" whoas with Totyotas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Flinch
Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
Here is the ultimate rig, complete with naked passenger <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Sorry Muley, but this picture just keeps cracking me up. Flinch
Last edited by RickBin; 05/22/04.
Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
how about the hummer H3 pickup? I saw a picture in newspaper a while back. I have a 94 gmc suburban around 148000 miles. My next truck will be toyota tundra 4 door.
Yep, Good choice for your next vehicle. I own a 2002 Tundra. It is not wanting. My previous 1980 Toy pick up I owned for 17 years. It boldly goes where no other 4x4 has gone before!! .....................and it keeps going I may add.
I used to work as a union construction worker in the SF Bay Area. Because wages and housing prices are so high there, many I knew would drive up to 70,000 miles per year comuting in from the central valley. Some took good care of them and some didn't. But 100,000 miles and they were running on the edge. Valves gone and often using oil. Very few made it over 150,000 miles. Toyotas, because of their great rep were very popular. So were Mazdas. Nissians were also popular, but didn't seem to last as well or be as trouble free. You are quite right about proper servicing. I bought a used 66 Dodge in 1976 with 50,000 miles. It had the old, big "Y" block 318 in it. I drove it to 189,000 miles and replaced the motor. It was using oil and the valves needed attention. The timing chain was streched badly, but it still worked. I believe in preventative maintanence, so I replaced the engine before it slipped the timing chain, or something happend. I drove that truck until Jan. of 1989 when I sold it for $1200. It had 290,000 miles on it. I had paid $1400 for the truck in 1976. I'm currently driving a 1989 Dodge Cummins. One of the very first ones Dodge built. It has some 267,000 miles on it and is in great shape. It hauls my camper and pulls my Jeep where I want to go. Except for a few electrical problems due to bad regulators, I've had no problems in spite of some very serious off road and camper use. I also owned a 1973 Int. Harvestor Scout II. I bought it in 1973 and sold it in 1989. It had 140,000 miles on it. Still with original everything and running fine. I paid $5200 for it and sold it for $2500. I haven't owned that many trucks. Just the two Dodges. I've owned 5 4WD's, one of which is the above Dodge, and the other, my first Jeep, I lost in my 2nd divorce. It was still quite new. So, from 1967 to present, I've only owned 2 International Harvestors, a Travelall, and the Scout; two Dodge trucks, one I still have, and really only one Jeep. That's about 37 yrs. I think I've had good service from vehicles other than Toyota. E
The Ford is using a different type of injection system all together. I am not as familiar with it, but the early ones had huge problems leaking fuel into the oil, which is part of what the external injectors solve. However, Fors seems to have resolves that. Their system is supposed to be similar to a CAT injection system.
That old AMC six is a very good engine,Chrysler has even beefed it up a touch.The TJ has a much better rep around here than the WJ.That 5-link suspension is as good as a solid can get,on and off road.Where a coils are compromise is in loading,it affects handling more than a leaf spring.
I prefer the coils myself, although I'm stuck with a YJ for now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I'll compromise a little off road capability for a little comfort on the highway. Let's say the TJ is better than the YJ and you'll not get any argument from me. Forums suffer from topic drift, which I'm guilty of myself, but in this case I was aimed right at Westman's question:
"Box stock, right off the showroom floor, which vehicle is going to handle a trail like Rubicon the best?"
Everyone has vehicle preferences and compromises, but the answer to the question is still "Jeep Wrangler" - hands down.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. Robert Frost
The post heading was street legal "Hunting rig" not off raod rig. I have owned a massively modified 75CJ5 and I would certainly not consider any of the Jeep vehicles a hunting rig at least for what I need. Where do you put the gear and the meat on the way home? How do you manage a 1000 mile highway ride with out getting beat to death.
Off road worthy and fun you bet, ......... actually functional for much else, Not in my world
www.huntingadventures.net Are you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
My version of the ultimate street legal hunting/offroad 4wd rig... along with a pup trailer I built to follow behind the Jeep (not shown in the picture) I wouldn't reccomend trying to follow my tracks in that fancy new rig if ya still want it to be nice to look at. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
i guess jeep also has a liberty diesel that with alot of poop. wont bring it here though as no market for it [they say!]. i think that would make a great trail/hunting rig. put some lockers on it and just puttttt........ woofer
Completely stock I would say that one of the Range Rovers would be up there with off/on road capabilities. From what I hear they are bad to the bone offroad. The price difference between a new Jeep Rubicon and one of the Range Rover types is pretty steep I imagine.
"It might be gone when you get here, but basically it's a green, '64 Chevy, driving West down Maine Street. No, I can't make out the licence plate, but ...errrr... it'll be pulling a small church. So any Green Chevy pulling a church down Main Street, I guess that'll be the one."
with apologies for straying from the original topic of this post:
part (but not all) of the H2's bad rep is due to the fact that the people who can actually afford it are slamming it in the initial delivery surveys because "it rides like a truck" and "it get's poor fuel economy" .... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />...customers trading in their imports/lincolns/cads are disappointed in the handling characteristics of their new vehicle, the soccer moms accustomed to the ride of their minivan are getting a rude surprise ; that's like putting together an unbraked superlight mega-magnum and complaining about the cost of the ammo and the severity of the recoil.
fomoco, chevy, and dodge are all going to have injector problems...we have junk fuel here, factory fuel filters are all done at approximately 6-7 microns (they have to be, any smaller and the frequency of replacement would result in a consumer complaints and poor csi...see hummer H2)...combine these factors with the injector/rail pressures required ( D-max approx 9000 psi at idle, 23000 psi at wfo)for proper atomization of the fuel to develop the horsepower per cubic inch these engines are making while still being compliant with the new reg's concerning exhaust particle parts per millioin and the sub-6 micron junk in the fuel works just like a sandblaster...your going to have injector failure.
fomoco had several problems with the launch of their new psd, injectors washing down the engines with fuel, seals failing, computer glitches, etc...they have addressed and corrected most of these issues...the problem, although you will be hard pressed to get them to admit it, is that the sales "suits" at the corporate level put this motor into production approx 12-18 months before all the engineers had cleared the project ...big blue has a history of this...contour,escape,focus all, if memory serves had "stop sell, do not test drive, do not deliver" (and if you did deliver get em back) bulletins sent to their dealers shortly after initial product launch. (before i get flamed, i'm not anti-ford...just calling a spade a spade)
people still put 'em together and you're going to have a given amount of product problems...the real trick is deciding what constitutes an acceptable failure rate....and how do you handle the failures,... they have to market to the masses, worry about product liability (it's not if you're going to get sued, it's simply a matter of when and how bad).... if someone really made a bad product they'd be out of biz...it really boils down to "do you like ford blue, chevy orange, or can you say hemi?"
bottom line is we live in America where we can drive what we want & if we all liked the same thing it'd be pretty boring.
again, sorry for the longevity & direction but i couldn't bite my keyboard any longer.
In the "standard class" probably a toss up between a LandRover Defender, Toyota Landcruiser, or a Mer G Wagon....Possible you could add UMM in there too, but they are not very well known beyond Europe. If i were on a budget and did not want a pickup, and was only going to use it locally, an Suzuki SJ 314 or even a Lada Niva Cossack would work well. Before anybody laughs, these are truely excellent off road and come with 12" ground clearance off the shelf! Avoid anything over 3 years old and you will find you can get a really surprising vehicle for peanuts.
There is a Spanish company (Santana?) that is building a "copy" of the Defender which sounds very interesting. Its a low technology version meant as a workhorse rather than a yuppy mover.
The engine is something like a 2.8TD Iveco which is a standard light commercial desiel engine in Europe which finds its way into loads of different light trucks and agricultural vehicles. Its not very sexy, just a proven, reliable workhorse.
The axles are going to be Dana and I forget who is going to do the gearbox but it is another generic unit ie tried and tested and available off the shelf.
The suspension is going to be parabollic leaf spring which the company developed for a version of the Defender they built under lisence a few years back. Not quite the same wheel travel as a coil sprung Defender, but better than a S3 Landy and a far better drive on road too....
Intrior trim will be metal and rubber matting that is easy to maintain rather than cloth.
The biggest improvement over the Defender will be in the drivers position...anybody over 5' will find the drivers position in a Defender very cramped as LandRover insist on being able to seat 3 (midgets) abreast in the front when the vehicle is just not big enough. The new Spanish clone will have two "normal" seats instead!
Finally the price will be about 3/4 of the price of a Defender..
The company has a history of building 4x4 under license and built Series/90's/110's LandRovers and later Suzuki SJ..They also build stuff for the Spanish Army so the have a reasonable "pedigree"...I hope its a success as it would be refreshing to see something built for work rather than moving yuppies around,
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