Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics The princess and the pea...optically speaking

For me personally, I am willing to spend time and money going for that last 3% on bins because I spend so much time looking through them, plus it's fun debating all these optical issues with you guys, but for some reason I'm perfectly happy with the forty five year old Balvar on my Mauser, old VX II Leupold on my Remington or B&L Elite 3000 on my Kimber.

The reality for me is that I hunt big game in Montana so no night hunting, I haven't hunted varmits and I have never missed a shot because I wasn't able to see the target through my middle of the road scopes. My actual time sighting through the scope is miniscule compared to hours looking through my bins, so I prioritize my dollars accordingly. I realize others will have different priorities due to the type of hunting they do, their disposible income and desire to use the very best. I don't know if I would splurge for Euro scopes over Leupy even if money wasn't an isue for me, like I said, I haven't noticed a need for upgrade in that area.

Jeff, first of all, when the ocular is locked, it is far more secure than any non locking ocular I've ever touched.
So, carrying the rifle up close to me has moved the ocular even the much smaller Leupold designs and even while locked. It hasn't been a problem because the scope's focus changes too slowly to be one. But this may be a problem on those where the focus changes much faster. Just based on how much mine have moved, I can see that happening. A few have reported this very thing here in the past.
So, it is something you need to keep an eye on if your rifle is so equipped. Not something I want. E

I wonder if that guy shooting the top of the line S&B, pushing the scope to its limit at dark-30, says "Boy, I'm glad I didn't have a dim loopie on this rifle."

Have done that and have scopes. Said it before FWIW. With todays glass the reticle is a bigger issue well past sundown...

May be too inexpensive a solution to swallow...

I agree about the reticle. Ever compared the reticle in a "top of the line S&B" to your 6X42? You just might like it.

I get what you're saying about technology reducing the required skill level, but I don't think it really applies here. A compound bow with pins and a rangefinder letting a newbie take shots farther than an old hand with a traditional? On subjects like that, I think one can make that argument or at least have such an opinion.

This is not the same. This is simply a piece of equipment that performs the exact same function better. If using a "Brand L" 6X42 in place of a "Brand S&B" 6X42 because it doesn't work as well in some conditions lets you show off your "skill" more, why stop there? Why not get a BSA and spray paint over half the objective? Using that scope would show you have lots of "skill," right? Maybe, or maybe simply lacking good sense.

Another one that's been beat to death. The only oculars you've ever had move while hunting are locked Luppys. Therefore, you recommend in order to avoid this people should only use locked Luppys.

I went into a lengthy explanation not too long ago why your locked luppys can actually be more likely to move under certain conditions. Forgive me if I decline to waste my breath yet again.

I'll simply say, put me in the column of those who have actually used such a thing and never had a problem. But I did have a problem with locked Luppys as you did long ago.

Try a VX-7, E. It has a gold ring! You have to like it! And you might actually learn something....

Yes. It is not that I don't like S&B...

I don't own a 6x42 anymore. I do use the 6x36 but prefer variables to fixed FWIW.

Don't understand quite what you are getting at Jon, on the spray painting angle.

To make it even more dim in low light, of course. Come on, don't ya need an extra challenge to show how much "skill" you have?

To raise the bar I just turn the spotlight off...:)

tomk
You are a funny guy
dave

Leupold usage requires a PHD in focusing.And only 3 people in the whole universe know how to do it.
Now loopie oculars equipped with locking rings are moving when held "up close".
No wonder Leupolds top of the line VX-7 looks like a Euro scope.
Give loopie another twenty years and they might actually build a usable rifle scope.
dave

Well... i'd much rather expound on perception than on locking rings <g>, but if the masses want to talk locking rings and not the subtleties of cognition... well hell...

I am a lover of Leupold scopes.

That said, I REALLY do not like the locking ring. The ONLY time I've had an ocular move significantly in the field has been when that locking ring came loose, and then the (very easily turned) ocular moved.

In contrast, I was just handling my 3.5x10 Conquest before I typed this, and I'm sorry but rubbing against a pack isn't going to move that thing. Or, let me put it differently. A guy would have to strap their rifle to their pack so unimaginably "wrong" to get that ocular to be moved by rubbing that... that... it just isn't gonna happen IMHO.

And finally... even if it DID move a little, what's the big deal? Move it back. It's not going to go so out of focus as to be a problem anyways.

I'm sorry E, I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, I just don't see this as being a "plus" on the Leupold side of the balance sheet! Quite the opposite actually.

The old "coefficient of thermal expansion"

Tighten the lock rings in a warm environment and when it gets cold, they will loosen easily.

Rob

BD
Interesting you should mention that.In the BR game if found that from cool early mornings to warmer afternoons.The AO on my 40x loopie BR had to be adjusted just becaues of the temp.Not alot mind you,but you could tell the difference.But then at 40x ,everything makes a difference.
dave

I guess you can argue whether or not I can shoot and know my rifle and scope but I've made a couple shots that I don't think I could have made with a middle of the road 6x42 scope. I can think of one for sure I wouldn't have attempted.
Such shots certainly are the exception rather than the rule but they have a do come up. More to the point is why do you want to limit yourself? I think that bowhunters and muzzleloaders are limitation that millions of hunters enjoy including me. But intil they start having extra hunting seasons for 6x or less scopes I plan to hunt with the best most versatile optics I can afford to put on my rifles.........................DJ

The remark was not personlly aimed at thee DJ.

Dudes, forget I said 6x OK? I use the 6x setting but am not implying anything, only saying it can be done. "Focus" on the middle of the road part...

Let me use a personal example for the practical application. There is not doubt in my brain that any hunting shot I can make with my pet Zeiss T*, I could also make with a new Leupold/Conquest/Barnes & Noble..on the same power setting and with the right reticle if it was well after sunset.

My experiences have simply been different. I've been in conditions several times in legal hours where I would not have felt comfortable taking a shot with the Leupold I was using and even once with an IOR (reticle got hard to see) where I would have been OK with a different IOR or the S&B I now have.

When comparing all these side by side as it gets dark they do not all cease to work at the exact same moment. Some last longer than others. Usually, they all last beyond legal light, but not always.

Tomk, I didn't think you were after me nor I you. I was just trying to reasonably nicely disagree. I guess my experiences have been different than yours.
I've had a couple chances that I've missed that left me wishing I'd been hunting with one of my better scopes. And as mentioned above I've also made a couple shots I wouldn't have attempted with a different lower powered scope. Again these are probably the exception rather than the rule but no more than I get to hunt I want to take every advantage I can including the best glass I can afford.
People have different means and I don't want to make anyone who can't afford the more expensive stuff feel bad or anything. I remember back when a $100 Tasco World class was the best scope I could afford. I enjoyed hunting with the Tasco on a $200 Pawn shop rifle but now I'm fortunate enough to afford a couple nicer things and am aware of a couple advantages they have......................DJ

Jeff, not everyone carrys their rifles like I do. I back pack hunt and often carry it tight to my pack in various ways. I carry it upside down with a sling when I still hunt or track. I do this becasue it is the fastest, surest way to get into action when you only have seconds to shoot.
If you want to believe that this won't happen and even if it does it won't make a difference, fine. But one thing is certain. The euros with their very fast focusing system don't have to be moved much to throw them out of focus. With Leupolds, not only is it much harder to move a locked ocular, but they must be move at least three, maybe four times as far to throw off their focus the same amount.
So, to each his own. E

There is no doubt in my mind that a 50-56mm scope with magnification up to 10-12X can make longer shots under marginal light conditions than I can with my 6X42 Leupold.
However, "limiting myself" with a 6X42, just isn't so. For one thing, it is far tougher, i.e. much more likely to hold zero when impacted than any 50-56mm euro variable I've ever heard of. Either from outside impacts or recoil.
Second, it is far lighter than any of the big 50-56mm scopes. That's makes a difference to me since I typically walk miles every day I hunt and literally climb thousands of feet at high altitudes.
On top of all of that, it has a huge eye box. Far better than any of the euros even at their lower magnifications. Heck, it even beats the Leupold variables I have in that department when they are set on 6X.
Selecting scope isn't mater of selecting something that has the last word in a particular area of performance. It's a matter of selecting those attributes and making the tradeoffs for those attributes that matter to you.
I've never lost an oportunity to shoot because I was using a 4X Leupold, let alone a 6X42. Others may have other experiences. But I have seen lots of scope mount problems and scopes change zero due to a number of things. I have had no more of any of this. One of the reasons is my selection of the fixed magnification Leupolds for my big game hunting. E